Last suburban level crossings

 
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

I get bells and alarms for pedestrian crossings, but for vehicle crossings they have no point.   By the time you would hear it, you are already on top of the LX.  Otherwise it just annoys everyone in the area, and they even lose effectiveness.  In QLD, the ambulances have sirens which are much softer than before and you can't heer them unless its right on top of you

I don't know what "on top of the LX" means. It may annoy people who live in the area, but I'll repeat one more time, it increases awarness for road users who can hear it. Can someone show me the official reason for installing bells or alarms on level crossings, don't use anecdotal evidence to convince people that bells are only for pedestrians.

There are studies which show our overuse of buzzers and alarms mean we now block them out, defeating their entire purpose.

If a crossing is manually operated, either on-site or remotely, it can have barriers that cover the full width of the road, and the bell or alarm can stop with all barriers closed. If you have seen videos of such level crossings in the British Isles, and similar ones on mainland Europe, you'll know what I mean.
Myrtone

If bells are so necessary at level crossings, there should be a demonstrable difference between the number of level crossing accidents in Queensland and the rest of Australia. The Queensland Transport report I posted, shows there were 9 level crossing collisions in 2013-2014 and 146 boom strikes. On a per capita basis that's one level crossing accident for every 524,436 people (2014 population statistics), or one boom strike for every 32,328 people. For Victoria in 2010-2011 there were 24 level crossing collisions, which is one collision for every 230,742 people (2011 population statistics) - more than twice as many per capita as Queensland. This article from The Age also provides some sobering statistics and suggests that bells certainly aren't making level crossings safer - with 32% of all Australian level crossing accidents occurring in Victoria.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/victorias-level-crossings-remain-the-deadliest-in-the-nation-report-finds-20121128-2aecf.html

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  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
I don't know what "on top of the LX" means.
Myrtone
Really? Which of those words don't you know the meaning of?
@phil_48 Grade separation in a low lying area can be done simply by building rail viaduct and reloating the tracks there. The station could even be directly above the street in question instead of next to it.
Myrtone
I don't know what "reloating" means! Wink
  phil_48 Chief Train Controller

Location: Wynnum North
Graham, I am sure he means relocating.  In relation to Lindum and this.  There are some mighty big trucks using this LX and the lines would have to be raised about 8 metres, based on the clearances of the nearby Port Motorway.  Either way Qld Govt would not spend the type of money needed especially now when it looks like a billion ( 4.4B, according to this mornings paper ) or so has to be spent  on the new NGR trains ( another thread ) before they enter service.
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
Graham, I am sure he means relocating.
phil_48
Of course he does, but the phrase @Myrtone claims not to understand is easier to understand than that. I know the Lindum LX/intersection very well, having lived on Kianawah Road for some years in the past. Certainly not a simple or cheap project whichever way they chose to do it.
  Clyde Goodwin2 Train Controller

Graham, I am sure he means relocating.
Of course he does, but the phrase @Myrtone claims not to understand is easier to understand than that. I know the Lindum LX/intersection very well, having lived on Kianawah Road for some years in the past. Certainly not a simple or cheap project whichever way they chose to do it.
Graham4405
myrtone is a one trick pony that is fascinated with level crossings and no matter how many or even how few facts you give him he will ignore you and keep banging on with his agenda,basically he refuses to listen.
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
If bells are so necessary at level crossings, there should be a demonstrable difference between the number of level crossing accidents in Queensland and the rest of Australia. The Queensland Transport report I posted, shows there were 9 level crossing collisions in 2013-2014 and 146 boom strikes. On a per capita basis that's one level crossing accident for every 524,436 people (2014 population statistics), or one boom strike for every 32,328 people. For Victoria in 2010-2011 there were 24 level crossing collisions, which is one collision for every 230,742 people (2011 population statistics) - more than twice as many per capita as Queensland. This article from The Age also provides some sobering statistics and suggests that bells certainly aren't making level crossings safer - with 32% of all Australian level crossing accidents occurring in Victoria.
Sulla1

But level crossings are way less common, at least in Brisbane and the Gold Coast. Besides, many Queensland level crossings do have yodal alarms, which can be heard by other road users.

It is widely accepted that some sort of audible warning is needed at open and half-barrier level crossings. This may be a bell or alarm. Here in Victoria, and both states sharing land borders with us, we have bells even at automatic level crossings with no pedestrian gates or crib crossing. This is how it is in Tasmania, New Zealand, Canada, and the U.S, the very country that gave us the style of automatic crossing signal we use. Also many other countries with American style level crossing protection.
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

Six percent of all Australian level crossings are in Queensland, the majority of these have stop sign protection or flashing lights without  boomgates. Pedestrian crossings with audible alarms are relatively common, but far from a standard level crossing protection, for example there are 23 level crossings in the Townsville urban area with flashing lights or lights and booms, yet only six have audible pedestrian warnings. Now, as the statistics demonstrate, Victoria experiences more than twice as many level crossing accidents per capita, with bells as a standard, compared to Queensland, where bells are not used. I do believe this demonstrates bells do very little for level crossing safety, no matter how widely they are used around the world.
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
Do the level crossings without audible alarms tend to be less busy than ones with them?

What about New South Wales, South Australia, Tasmania, New Zealand and other juristictions with audible warnings, usually bells, as standard? No more anecdotal evidence, can someone please show me the official reason for installing bells and alarms.
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

For crying out loud, this isn't anecdotal evidence, it is statistical fact. What more do you want? Most of the busiest mainlines in Eastern Australia are in Queensland, with daily freight train and interuban counts reaching over fifty on four seperate sections of the North Coast Line and over thirty on three of the four coal lines. There are trains up here, operating in multiple urban areas, and they are not colliding with vehicles as often as they do in Victoria, that is fact, and it is not anecdotal. You're welcome to use Google for further research, I'm done.
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
But when you use it as evidence that bells are only for pedestrians, it is anecdotal. If you want to claim that bells and alarms and only for pedestrians, show me something more substatial that says so.
It is true that trains aren't colliding with vehicles as often in Brisbane as here in Melbourne, but we have a lot more level crossings. While almost 20% of all Australian level crossings are Queensland, what about the percentage of automatic crossings. Futhermore, Victoria is a denser state where level crossings are generally busier.

I'll tell you all again, I'd like comparisons with New South Wales, South Australia and elsewhere where bells are standard.
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
I'll tell you all again, I'd like...
Myrtone
So what you are really saying is that you want someone else to do your research for you. Nobody else is interested in your fixation with bells (or lack thereof) at level crossings. Research the subject for yourself then write up a report and post it for anyone else who is remotely interested.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Regard Adelaide use of traffic lights, yes they are there, well at least the intersection I walked across 2months ago. Flashing lights are there too, but car drivers don't respond to flashing lights light traffic lights. Flashing lights to road users are typically an indication of a warning or hazard, not to stop. Which is why this standard should have been abandoned 60 years ago. The introduction of traffic lights by SA govt is a wise move and more should follow.

Here is a photo of one of their level crossings:

See, just those American style flashing lights, no other lights.
Moron
You have had this explained to you a number of times, you disingenuous troll.

Traffic lights are overlaid on selected level crossings in SA where they present additional benefits with regards to controlling road traffic, mostly to do with controlling intersection traffic (including pedestrians) but in nine cases they are there to facilitate people using one of the Greenway corridors for Active Transport to cross the road parallel to the railway. The lights may show red at any time for these purposes, but only have the red flashing lights added when closed for a train.

No line in Adelaide loses any more than a minute or so to level crossings, and the number of level crossings which present a genuine impediment to road traffic is quite small as congestion is caused by cars rather than trains. Therefore in Adelaide the policy with regards to existing level crossings is to assess replacement projects on an individual basis and proceeding with the work where there is a good case to do so. There are a couple of these projects underway at present.
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

There a few in qld that have interlocked traffic lights.   I have had to run a red traffic light when a LX in toowomba that was interlocked with the crossing protection because it had failed.  I was one of the most hesitant to run the red, even though I would have the most knowledge about how safe it would be to cross the road.  Since I have local knowledge of that railway line, I knew a train wouldn't be approaching.  (the LX stayed active after a grain train had gone through)
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
Failures like that should be reported.
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

Failures like that should be reported.
Myrtone
I did very soon after i got through.  It was causing a serious traffic jam.  Thankfully its almost within walking distance of toowomba station, home to a very large maintenance and engineering division.
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Topic at a impass.

LOCKED.

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