Canberra Express hauled loco

 
  act_railfan Station Master

Hey,

As some of you may remember I am quite Interested in Canberra's railway history.
The 'Canberra express ' loco hauled back in the early 90's. (replaced in 1994 by the Xplorer DMU).
was a combination of the Interurban "Southern Highlands Express" coupled with the regional service to Canberra.
The first 6 cars were "unbooked Cityrail seats" and the last two carriages were "booking essential" Countrylink seats.

I have talked to many rail enthusiasts but nobody could tell me about the fare structure on this service.

here is my question:

Supposedly I wanted to travel from Canberra to Sydney central.

would I pay the Countrylink price of the fare from Canberra to Goulburn

then added with the calculated cost of the Cityrail fare past Goulburn, to my booking?

or did Canberra passengers had to pay the entire full priced Countrylink ticket cost?


I would really like to know.. thanks

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  theanimal Deputy Commissioner

Assuming your journey commenced in Sydney and went to Canberra you would pay the CL fare, I am sure that there used to be a by-law that prohibited passengers taking advantage of fare scales to reduce the cost.

When I was a booking clerk 1973-1980 across the network, you could get an extension on a ticket, for example you had a weekly from Penrith to the City, but wished to extend and go to North Sydney, you were either issued a Excess Fare Receipt, or some stations had Edmundson card stock for common journeys, or change of class.
  georges Junior Train Controller

A small point.

Wikipedia's entry on the Canberra Express _ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canberra_Express - claims that:

"The Canberra Express was an Australian passenger train operated by the State Rail Authority between Sydney and Canberra via the Main South line from May 1982 until January 1994.

It was introduced in May 1982 being operated by DEB railcar sets. In August 1983 it was converted to XPT operation and renamed the Canberra XPT. In February 1990 the XPT was replaced by HUB/RUB rolling stock]

It ceased in January 1994 following the introduction of Xplorers to the route."

Wikipedia's entry on the Canberra Monaro Express - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canberra_Monaro_Express - cliams:

"The Canberra Monaro Express was a passenger train operated by the New South Wales Government Railways between Sydney, Canberra and Cooma from May 1955 until September 1988.

It was formed by two four-carriage DEB railcar sets and replaced the steam-hauled Federal City Express.

After departing Sydney Central it travelled via the Main South line to Goulburn where it branched off to Queanbeyan. There the train divided, with one set going to Canberra, and the other to Cooma.

The train normally consisted of two DEB railcar sets of four carriages. In July 1973 it was cut back to a single four-carriage set serving both Canberra and Cooma, sometimes with a non air-conditioned 620/720 set attached when demand warranted. Reliability problems with the DEB sets saw locomotive hauled trains take over the service between June 1981 and August 1982. In the State Rail Authority era it was built up to seven-carriage DEB sets serving Canberra and Cooma, before the old practice of dividing the train at Queanbeyan, with three cars going to Cooma, was reverted to in March 1986.The final Canberra Monaro Express ran on 26 September 1988."

I recall catching a loco-hailed service to Canberra in 1977.

Maybe an informed Railpager could sort this out?.
  act_railfan Station Master

Assuming your journey commenced in Sydney and went to Canberra you would pay the CL fare, I am sure that there used to be a by-law that prohibited passengers taking advantage of fare scales to reduce the cost.

When I was a booking clerk 1973-1980 across the network, you could get an extension on a ticket, for example you had a weekly from Penrith to the City, but wished to extend and go to North Sydney, you were either issued a Excess Fare Receipt, or some stations had Edmundson card stock for common journeys, or change of class.
theanimal


what a bizzare fare structure back then  Rolling Eyes

If i was to catch a Bus from Orange to Lithgow & connect to a V-set.
my fare was calculated as so:

Orange - Lithgow Bus = Countrylink fare +
cost of Cityrail ticket

Canberra rail users were getting ripped off back then.
  a6et Minister for Railways

Assuming your journey commenced in Sydney and went to Canberra you would pay the CL fare, I am sure that there used to be a by-law that prohibited passengers taking advantage of fare scales to reduce the cost.

When I was a booking clerk 1973-1980 across the network, you could get an extension on a ticket, for example you had a weekly from Penrith to the City, but wished to extend and go to North Sydney, you were either issued a Excess Fare Receipt, or some stations had Edmundson card stock for common journeys, or change of class.


what a bizzare fare structure back then  Rolling Eyes

If i was to catch a Bus from Orange to Lithgow & connect to a V-set.
my fare was calculated as so:

Orange - Lithgow Bus = Countrylink fare +
cost of Cityrail ticket

Canberra rail users were getting ripped off back then.
act_railfan
There was a lot of different fare structures in the past primarily owing to the type of train and area you were going/coming from along with the train type.  

If you lived and travelled in the Sydney Suburban network you paid suburban prices, but if you purchased a ticket that took you over the harbour bridge there was a fee for that, basically a toll as motorists and bus passengers had to pay.

Interurban prices applied to those destinations that had interurban trains, but pre electrification it was a country fair as it was country.

Catch a mail train, or daylight rural service you could not buy a ticket to alight at any of the A stops within the Sydney - interurban network, on the west the first set down was Lithgow, North was Bmd, South was Moss Vale, Picton was part of the interurban network for trains to/from Picton, but allowed to catch the MV and Goulburn Southern Highlands as they were deemed commuter/interurban.

Illawarra had Helensburg as the outer Interurban network.
  georges Junior Train Controller

what a bizzare fare structure back then  Rolling Eyes

If i was to catch a Bus from Orange to Lithgow & connect to a V-set.
my fare was calculated as so:

Orange - Lithgow Bus = Countrylink fare +
cost of Cityrail ticket

Canberra rail users were getting ripped off back then.
act_rai
The past is another country. They do things differently there.

Canberra travellers were getting a booked seat all the way at an arguably superior level of comfort, no need to change trains, and access to on-board food. They still do.

Some fare anomalies remain. Even today you can travel full-fare one way by Sydney Trains and TrainLink Endeavour to Goulburn on a 'regular' Opal Card for a peak fare of $8.50. The Goulburn/Canberra fare on TrainLink XPL is $16.95, for a total travel cost of about $25. The XPL fare all the way to Canberra from Central is about $56, over twice the former cost. The cheap way comes with the great inconvenience of changing trains twice - at Campbelltown (usually) as well as Goulburn. Who knows how long you spend awaiting your connection at each intermediate station. Furthermore, the cheap way involves many more intermediate stops. Anyone feel like an all-day trip?
  act_railfan Station Master

what a bizzare fare structure back then  Rolling Eyes

If i was to catch a Bus from Orange to Lithgow & connect to a V-set.
my fare was calculated as so:

Orange - Lithgow Bus = Countrylink fare +
cost of Cityrail ticket

Canberra rail users were getting ripped off back then.
The past is another country. They do things differently there.

Canberra travellers were getting a booked seat all the way at an arguably superior level of comfort, no need to change trains, and access to on-board food. They still do.

Some fare anomalies remain. Even today you can travel full-fare one way by Sydney Trains and TrainLink Endeavour to Goulburn on a 'regular' Opal Card for a peak fare of $8.50. The Goulburn/Canberra fare on TrainLink XPL is $16.95, for a total travel cost of about $25. The XPL fare all the way to Canberra from Central is about $56, over twice the former cost. The cheap way comes with the great inconvenience of changing trains twice - at Campbelltown (usually) as well as Goulburn. Who knows how long you spend awaiting your connection at each intermediate station. Furthermore, the cheap way involves many more intermediate stops. Anyone feel like an all-day trip?
georges


The Goulburn passengers didn't need to change trains at Campbelltown either, back then.
It was a direct loco hauled service.
  NSWRcars Chief Train Controller

what a bizzare fare structure back then  Rolling Eyes

Canberra rail users were getting ripped off back then.
act_railfan

I am no expert on this (and happy to be corrected), but as far as I recall, in the SRA era (and before) there was no differentiation between metropolitan and country fares. Fares between stations throughout NSW were calculated on a scale based on the difference between their kilometrage. Fares between any two stations were exactly the same, regardless of whether you used local trains, mail trains or expresses, except that you had to pay a few cents extra for the seat booking required on expresses. Many country trains had optional seat bookings. There were however certain fare “discounts” for such tickets as periodicals and off-peak metropolitan journeys.



I doubt that Canberra passengers were ever “ripped off”, as you put it.



I would suggest that only after the separation of various railway business units, fares became less equitable, but today there are more discounted fares than previously.


  theanimal Deputy Commissioner

Assuming your journey commenced in Sydney and went to Canberra you would pay the CL fare, I am sure that there used to be a by-law that prohibited passengers taking advantage of fare scales to reduce the cost.

When I was a booking clerk 1973-1980 across the network, you could get an extension on a ticket, for example you had a weekly from Penrith to the City, but wished to extend and go to North Sydney, you were either issued a Excess Fare Receipt, or some stations had Edmundson card stock for common journeys, or change of class.


what a bizzare fare structure back then  Rolling Eyes

If i was to catch a Bus from Orange to Lithgow & connect to a V-set.
my fare was calculated as so:

Orange - Lithgow Bus = Countrylink fare +
cost of Cityrail ticket

Canberra rail users were getting ripped off back then.
act_railfan
If you think that was bizarre, the fare used to be worked out to Queanbeyan and there was a Commonwealth Railways fare added to it.

There was a 0.02c surcharge for journeys over the Harbour Bridge

We sole velocipede tickets, charged for prams and surfboards on suburban trains
  act_railfan Station Master

what a bizzare fare structure back then  Rolling Eyes

Canberra rail users were getting ripped off back then.

I am no expert on this (and happy to be corrected), but as far as I recall, in the SRA era (and before) there was no differentiation between metropolitan and country fares. Fares between stations throughout NSW were calculated on a scale based on the difference between their kilometrage. Fares between any two stations were exactly the same, regardless of whether you used local trains, mail trains or expresses, except that you had to pay a few cents extra for the seat booking required on expresses. Many country trains had optional seat bookings. There were however certain fare “discounts” for such tickets as periodicals and off-peak metropolitan journeys.



I doubt that Canberra passengers were ever “ripped off”, as you put it.



I would suggest that only after the separation of various railway business units, fares became less equitable, but today there are more discounted fares than previously.

NSWRcars


thats ok,

but I was wondering about after 1990 when SRA was split into CL and Cityrail.

anyhow..

I actually wrote a letter to NSW govt./ Trainlink suggesting to
improve patronage on the GLB -SYD service.. perhaps it could terminate in
Canberra or run as some kind of combined service.

at the very least, Trainlink could even run a coach from Canberra to connect with the Goulburn Endevour service. (The fare would still be more affordable than the current XPL service)

In the response email they told me, "Thankyou for your suggestion we will pass your letter to Management"

That was 10 months ago ..
  M636C Minister for Railways

Hey,

As some of you may remember I am quite Interested in Canberra's railway history.
The 'Canberra express ' loco hauled back in the early 90's. (replaced in 1994 by the Xplorer DMU).
was a combination of the Interurban "Southern Highlands Express" coupled with the regional service to Canberra.
The first 6 cars were "unbooked Cityrail seats" and the last two carriages were "booking essential" Countrylink seats.

I have talked to many rail enthusiasts but nobody could tell me about the fare structure on this service.

here is my question:

Supposedly I wanted to travel from Canberra to Sydney central.

would I pay the Countrylink price of the fare from Canberra to Goulburn

then added with the calculated cost of the Cityrail fare past Goulburn, to my booking?

or did Canberra passengers had to pay the entire full priced Countrylink ticket cost?


I would really like to know.. thanks
act_railfan
In State Rail days there were not separate Countrylnk and CityRail fares.

Travel on a country air conditioned train required payment of a compulsory seat booking fee, but otherwise the fares were the same on country and interurban trains to (say) Moss Vale.

I'm not sure what marked the end of the suburban area in those days.

I remember that on one journey on a non-air conditioned train to Canberra, on which no seat booking fee was paid (and no seats were booked) that a couple of high school students could travel on the train to Goulburn on the payment of $1 (which would have allowed them to return the same day (if there had been a train they could catch) while the adult fare to Canberra was $15 (if I recall correctly). The $1 only applied at weekends, otherwise half adult fares applied to students.

But under that system, there would be no saving in splitting the fare, since the booking fee had to be paid for the Canberra Goulburn section anyway.

Peter
  act_railfan Station Master

Also one last question:

How many hours did it take the Canberra Express, to arrive at Sydney Central?

4 hours?  or 5 hours?

thanks

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