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Adani acts to allay monopoly rail fears

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    News article: Adani acts to allay monopoly rail fears

    ADANI has rejected the idea of letting the Federal Government construct its proposed rail line in the Galilee Basin despite concerns the Indian conglomerate might monopolise the infrastructure.

      MetroFemme Assistant Commissioner

    Adani just done for polluting the barrier reef and breaching licences which is poor corporate behaviour. 

    Can we expect more corporate non caring from this giant who has no interest in Australian environment other than digging out our coal and burning it in India. 

    Corporate creeps. 

    The guy in the photo looks dodgy. 

    MNy du ours going around the circles adani have paid off politicians in Queensland to get this up. Coming from the energy insiders.

    Adani acts to allay monopoly rail fears
    Posted: 11 Aug 2017 17:34

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      YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

    Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
    Adani is too smart for our politicians.
    We will be taken to the cleaners somewhere somehow sooner or later.
    Posted: 11 Aug 2017 18:31
      bingley hall Minister for Railways

    Location: Last train to Skaville
    They employ good spin doctors that's for sure.
    Posted: 11 Aug 2017 18:43
      bevans Site Admin

    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Posted: 15 Nov 2017 16:14
      neillfarmer Chief Train Controller

    Adani just done for polluting the barrier reef and breaching licences which is poor corporate behaviour.

    Can we expect more corporate non caring from this giant who has no interest in Australian environment other than digging out our coal and burning it in India.

    Corporate creeps.

    The guy in the photo looks dodgy.

    MNy du ours going around the circles adani have paid off politicians in Queensland to get this up. Coming from the energy insiders.

    Adani acts to allay monopoly rail fears
    MetroFemme
    Queensland has an effective anti corruption commission. I suggest you take your evidence of pay-offs to them. Judging a person's ethics by his appearance would seem to be somewhat discriminatory. They did not pollute the Barrier Reef. It is many kilometres off shore from Bowen.
    Your post does you no credit. At least if you are going to make such assertions you should have the courage to use your own name.
    Neill Farmer
    Posted: 18 Nov 2017 12:06

    Last edited by neillfarmer on 18 Nov 2017 12:08; edited 1 time in total
      dthead Site Admin

    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Mod Note.

    Have removed all "Language based" attempts - we try to use English here. I have asked for the jumbled sentence that sparked that to be explained and I will edit it.

    And to a degree remember any damaging accursations can be used against you if authorities deem it needed.
    Posted: 18 Nov 2017 18:13

    Last edited by dthead on 18 Nov 2017 20:50; edited 1 time in total
      Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

    Location: On a Thing with Internet
    still though this is not going to be a popular project...
    Posted: 18 Nov 2017 18:42

    Last edited by Dangersdan707 on 18 Nov 2017 19:11; edited 1 time in total
      Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

    It might not be popular in the Sydney and Melbourne, but it's pretty popular in the North. Just as Sydney-siders might not be interested in the opinions of North Queenslanders, North Queenslanders aren't much impressed by the opinions eminating from the south. I'm not a fan of Adani and its corporate practices but many of claims coming from the environmental lobby have been spurious and many cases false. Don't believe the extremes of either side and look for the truth around the middle.
    Posted: 18 Nov 2017 19:24
      simstrain Chief Commissioner

    Adani should build the railway itself with no government support. If the libs couldn't be bothered to support Holden and Toyota then they shouldn't be helping Adani or any other company with loans. Put strict environmental restrictions on and let the project go ahead.
    Posted: 18 Nov 2017 22:14
      BDA Chief Commissioner

    Location: Sydney
    Interesting that he reckons their transport costs will be 60% of Aurizons , 40% is a pretty major difference .
    I imagine that to do this they would need a true heavy haul rail system and trains to suit .
    Be interesting to compare what a heavy haul operator could run with a rail system based on at least US domestic or better infrastructure .
    It could start with locomotives of 190-200 tonnes , the hoppers can easily be built to 40 tonne axle load standards with an empty mass of around 25 tonnes (rotary dump cars) .
    Depending on things like grades/loop lengths/balloon loop lengths etc their trains could easily be 2-3 km long .

    As a comparison what does Aurizon run for their coal railways . From memory their engines gross around 120 tonnes and I think I read once  , could be mistaken , that their perway is good for around 24 tonne axle loads .
    Even if their hoppers could gross 100-110 tonnes its a bit hard to compete with those that could gross - say 160 tonnes .

    To get it together quickly they would have to source their rolling stock overseas because manufacturing is politically incorrect in Australia . I guess North America would be a good place to buy engines cost effectively and the Chinese would be only too happy to make hopper cars in big numbers .

    Just thought of something , does anyone know what size rail South Australia is going to supply for this system .
    By any chance would it be 68 kg/m rail ?
    Posted: 19 Nov 2017 08:12
      Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

    Aurizon, PN and BMA run 106-tonne hoppers. Axle load across the Aurizon network is 26.5-tonnes with 60kg rail and concrete sleepers the current standard. 13,144-tonne trains are the largest currently operating, but planning is underway for trains up 26,000-tonnes. While US standard heavy haul will be cheaper, I very much think the cost savings are being overstated, particularly if debt from construction is included in the operating life of the project...probably why they want low cost loans from the Government.
    Posted: 19 Nov 2017 08:36
      Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

    Location: On a Thing with Internet
    for those interested, I mainly disagree with the project because of the corruption rife through Adani and the governments dodgy lone of taxpayer dollars.
    Posted: 19 Nov 2017 09:42
      BDA Chief Commissioner

    Location: Sydney
    Well assuming Aurizon are doing it with around 124 cars you can move the same thing using 160T gross hoppers with about 82 and a bit cars .

    A modern US domestic ACE or Evo can probably drag something approaching twice what a GT42AC can do so you can see where the operating costs would tumble .

    Is it known roughly how this proposed line will be gradient wise , I have no idea of the geography in that part of the world .
    Posted: 19 Nov 2017 11:18
      BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

    Location: Maldon Junction
    for those interested, I mainly disagree with the project because of the corruption rife through Adani and the governments dodgy lone of taxpayer dollars.
    Dangersdan707
    What is so dodgy about the loan? For a start it is probably not a loan of taxpayer dollars, the NAIF loans are concessional loans which seek to leverage the borrowing power of the Australian government which is seen as low risk and high security to help finance large infrastructure projects in Northern Australia.

    The chances are that the funds would be borrowed from a third party by the Australian government (remember the budget is in deficit so there is not a whole load of cash sitting around ready to lend) and then on-lent to Adani at a lower rate than they could get on the open market.

    The loan could also be concessional in that it may have a delayed repayment schedule to allow the project to get off the ground.

    Security would presumably be in the form of the Rail line itself or some other piece of infrastructure.

    This is a $16.5 BILLION project so in the grand scheme of things the government is not exposing itself to major risk.

    The rail line (which is required to be Open Access to qualify for the funding) would be a real asset to the region in general and if Adani disappeared off the face of the earth during the life of the project the line would still be there to be used by other operators.

    You can be anti Adani or anyone else for that matter but to single out the NAIF loan as a reason to be against the project flies in the face of common sense. Last I checked there had been over 120 applications for finance under the NAIF scheme, it is not just Adani who are seeking to use it.

    BG
    Posted: 19 Nov 2017 11:32

    Last edited by BrentonGolding on 19 Nov 2017 11:33; edited 1 time in total
      1771D Junior Train Controller

    Nicely said BG, but we shouldn't let the truth get in the way of blind ideology.....Rolling Eyes
    Posted: 19 Nov 2017 11:39
      simstrain Chief Commissioner

    Is there any chance that this line adani is building could be connected up to the inland in the future?
    Posted: 19 Nov 2017 12:29
      BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

    Location: Maldon Junction
    Nicely said BG, but we shouldn't let the truth get in the way of blind ideology.....Rolling Eyes
    1771D
    Speaking of blind ideology and Adani, the ALP got walloped by The Greens in the Northcote bye election yesterday here in Victoria.

    The ALP (of which I was once a card carrying member) has completely lost it's way chasing a progressive ideology to court votes from rich inner city yuppies while simultaneously ignoring their (once) core working class constituency.

    The Greens campaigned on a bunch of issues including Stop Adani which the Victorian State Government has zero control over.

    The media is now advancing the idea that the ALP will give up on Richmond, Brunswick, Northcote etc as they are unwinnable and revert to a good on Jobs, Education and Cost of Living campaign to try to win the seats where it has a chance against the Liberals.

    The ALP no longer shares the core values of the majority of it's voters. The SSM result was a great insight into where the ALP's problems lie - was it 9 of the 13 federal electorates that voted No that were ALP held seats? Many of these are in the bellweather Western Sydney area where federal elections are now won and lost. The liberals will now run hard at the next campaign in these seats to convince voters that the ALP doesn't represent them but instead represents a bunch of rich inner city yuppies on the left fringe of politics.

    The Adani mine and similar projects represent jobs and employment, things that the ALP should support. Now even the Qld PM is running dead on Adani as she is pandering to Greens voters in New Farm.

    We face the real prospect of a hung parliament here in Victoria after the next State election, one in which the Greens may easily control the balance of power with 4 or more seats. A bunch of upper middle class entitled do-gooders who are anti jobs could have a firm grip on the levers of power while the ALP representatives (a bunch of lawyers and other rent seekers who could probably count on one hand how many hours of manual labour they have done in their lives) sit back and ponder what went wrong.

    And you wonder why Joe Public is dissillusioned (as I am) with politics here and around the Western world.

    BG
    Posted: 19 Nov 2017 12:42

    Last edited by BrentonGolding on 19 Nov 2017 15:04; edited 2 times in total
      Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

    Well assuming Aurizon are doing it with around 124 cars you can move the same thing using 160T gross hoppers with about 82 and a bit cars .

    A modern US domestic ACE or Evo can probably drag something approaching twice what a GT42AC can do so you can see where the operating costs would tumble .

    Is it known roughly how this proposed line will be gradient wise , I have no idea of the geography in that part of the world .
    BDA

    The line will start in and cross the southern end of the Burdekin basin, loaded trains will be generally running "downhill", apart from crossing low ridges separating northwards running water courses. The line is planned to go much further north than the existing Newlands Line, avoiding Aurizon's crossing of the Clarke Range (the Briaba Bank 1 in 100 and 1 in 90) before turning south near Gumlu to reach Abbot Point - travelling an extra 80km or so to maintain a "water level route". Grades should be substantially better than Aurizon's 1 in 100s I would think. Three or maybe even two ES44ACs or SD70ACes should be able to manage trains of 26,000-tonnes.

    My guess for Aurizon and PN, whose existing operations will be too far to the east to be impacted by Adani's route, will be an eventual move towards Progress' 150-tonne "Queensland" GT46CU-ACe design over the next decade on the Newlands Line, these should achieve 85% of the tonnage capacity of a SD70ACe and match or better the tonnage capacity of the 71 class/3800 class electrics. Alternatively Aurizon may move towards electrification.

    This is what operations on the Briaba Bank look like at the moment...




    https://youtu.be/gurO89aw3B8
    Posted: 19 Nov 2017 15:35

    Last edited by Sulla1 on 19 Nov 2017 15:41; edited 1 time in total
      YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

    Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
    Thanks Sulla.
    Always good to see some current ops photos.
    Did my roll-by see an empty wagon at about 3 mins 51 secs followed by a part loaded wagon - or was I seeing things?
    Posted: 19 Nov 2017 16:11
      Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

    Thanks Sulla.
    Always good to see some current ops photos.
    Did my roll-by see an empty wagon at about 3 mins 51 secs followed by a part loaded wagon - or was I seeing things?
    YM-Mundrabilla

    Yep, there's an empty and part loaded wagon ahead of the mid train loco. A big no no I believe, but must have been missed at the load out.
    Posted: 19 Nov 2017 16:16
      Big J Deputy Commissioner

    Location: In Paradise


    The guy in the photo looks dodgy.



    Adani acts to allay monopoly rail fears
    MetroFemme
    Why is the guy looking dodgy?

    So a photo put into the media to support their story of a person and the guy looks dodgy?

    So every photo in the media showing someone looking dodgy then we shouldn't deal with that person.

    Based on that logic, then we shouldn't deal with any of our politicians. As you would know if a story involves a pollie that claims that person doing something wrong then they will put in a supporting photo. A classic is with Barnaby Joyce. He will be shown as a buffoon.

    If it is a so try supporting his view then it will be a serious photo.

    I am not a supporter of Mr Joyce, but just making the point.

    I am sure that you don't have any photos of yourself Metro that you look at it and wish it wasn't taken. We all do. That shouldn't be the basis supporting your valid argument.

    As we say at work "keep it above the line" or tackle the man not the ball.
    Posted: 19 Nov 2017 16:18
      Big J Deputy Commissioner

    Location: In Paradise
    What was the financial arrangements with early days of the Goonyella System for the Bowen basin?

    Wasn't that wholly funded, owned (and that stage operated) by the State government? Ultimately rightly or wrongly it was spun off.

    Didn't they do this to service a foreign owned mine (Utah if I am not correct) and other Australian mines?

    So that the government do this to create development in that part of the world, generate royalties for the government to be used for its services.

    My point is that Australians have changed and they are slower to support governments that provide financing (even as a loan).

    If this was proposed in the 70s to the 2000s I think this would have happened without much murmurs. This project really shows how the electorate is with governments at the moment and the big end of town.

    Also I think that as this is an foreign own business, it is attracting more venom. I don't see the same stories on Hancock's proposal for the Galilee Basin.
    Posted: 19 Nov 2017 16:43
      Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

    Location: On a Thing with Internet
    Guys I'm sorry my inner hippie on this issue is stronger than my inner gunzel, I can understand why their are people that want this and for one I AM NOT A GREENS SUPPORTER!!!!!
    after all this is Like @simstrain said a hypocritical decision by the LNP Coalition. if they are't going to prop up our beloved car industry, why give money to a mining company. this venture is probably no going to be a success economically after all Adani is, like most multinational corporations a bit dodgy and have thing they don't want to the public to see. and yes I understand political disenfranchisement as I have mentioned multiple times in other treads.

    http://www.theage.com.au/good-weekend/carmichael-coal-mine-magnate-gautam-adani-from-school-dropout-to-12bn-empire-20171106-gzfobl.html

    aslo for those claiming its popular people will always say that you just need to manipulate the stats like the Politicians do..
    and this is from sky news, a conservative Media outlet!

    http://www.skynews.com.au/news/politics/state/2017/11/16/polling-shows-unpopularity-of-adani.html
    Posted: 19 Nov 2017 18:03
      BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

    Location: Maldon Junction
    I was a huge supporter of retaining our Auto manufacturing industry but to coin a phrase "to compare the two there is no comparison"

    In the case of Adani we are talking about a LOAN, a loan that has to be paid back with interest.

    In the case of of the Auto industry it was a SUBSIDY which generated no direct return to the Government, a point which Abbot and Hockey were able to exploit in their attack on Holden and Toyota. Many people (including me) tried to point out in vain that the overall benefit to the economy far outweighed the cost to the government.

    BG
    Posted: 19 Nov 2017 18:19
      BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

    Location: Maldon Junction
    BTW if you want to channel your inner hippie consider that the electricity produced by Adani burning Qld coal is designed to reduce the use of biomass, dung, firewood, charcoal and home burning of coal for cooking and heating in Indian households, particularly in poor areas.

    This is one of the major contributors to India's horrendous air pollution problem.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_pollution_in_India

    check out in particular the section headed Fuel and Biomass Burning.

    BG
    Posted: 19 Nov 2017 18:33

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