Nationalisation

 
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
do you think we should have a state owned rail network similar to BR back in the day?
I certainly do as the privatisation of rail in Victoria has been a joke

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  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Ah, privitisation. A quick sugar hit to the budget. And a removal of responsibility.
Delivery of service, reliability and price. All suffer. Buyers expect a return on vestment. Fair enough.

What exactly is wrong with a public sector that deliver services? At a reasonable cost? Lots of jobs, revenue in the form of income tax. Lower unemployment. Not the BS that is one hour of volunteer work, classed as employed.

I've posted before, politicians are custodians of OUR assets, not owners.

Be it rail, electricity or other infrastructure/services. Leave them in Public hands.

How is the job services network going? Over priced and under delivered.

This pi$$es me off more than most.

End of rant. I hope.

Regards, Mick
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Look at the mess now with rail, electricity, water, health and other areas. costing more now than it did previously with worse service.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

In terms of public assets John Howard stepped in to prevent the sale of Snowy Hydo, good call. What would Malcom be touting as the saviour of renewable energy had that asset been removed from public ownership?
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
In terms of public assets John Howard stepped in to prevent the sale of Snowy Hydo, good call. What would Malcom be touting as the saviour of renewable energy had that asset been removed from public ownership?
michaelgm
Isn't Turnbull touting to flog the Snowy Hydro Scheme?
Some people are completely amoral.
They should be hanged for treason.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
do you think we should have a state owned rail network similar to BR back in the day?
I certainly do as the privatisation of rail in Victoria has been a joke
Dangersdan707
State owned YES but certainly not like BR.
We have followed Britain in too many ways for too long and we continue to import Brits as the know all saviours of everything in transport.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
@YM-Mundrabilla it was the example I could get of the top of my head
  1771D Junior Train Controller

Try QR for a more recent disgraceful example.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Look at the mess now with rail, electricity, water, health and other areas. costing more now than it did previously with worse service.
x31
What empirical evidence do you have to support that claim?

For evidence for privatisation, look at Qantas - providing far better service than it did under government ownership and expanding globally.

Seriously, why are people fascinated with privatisation as a panacea for things?  On the one hand, we pummel politicians for they ineptitude, then expect them to do manage a rail network to perfection?  And if anything is clear, all they'll do is use it to pork barrel and do favours for mates.  Why do you think some of the rail network was privatised (I'm looking at PN and the NSW coal network here...)

And who would pay for all of this?  Who is happier to pay higher taxes?  If it wasn't for privatisation, the taxes you'd pay now would be far higher...
  HardWorkingMan Chief Commissioner

Location: Echuca
we are paying for it anyway via subsidies etc.

Also it is not truly privatised - the PTV still sets (or at least approves) timetables.  If it was truly privatised the operators would be free to run the services as and when they wished or there was profitable demand. You may then have more than one operator running trains during peak periods but no trains at other times

from a political viewpoint neither party wants to take control back or they would have done it.  It's nice to have someone else to blame for the failures while whichever party is in power claims the kudos for improvements.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

What empirical evidence do you have to support that claim?

A phrase coined by a former senator who was incapable of completing a form correctly.

Pork barrelling and corruption is a valid reason for privatisation?  Of course none of that exists in private enterprise, bank Royal,commission anyone?

Qantas was close to the wall 3 years ago.  If a share holder, I'd tip my hat to AJ.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
What empirical evidence do you have to support that claim?
james.au
Twenty years of privatised power in VIC and SA and prices are completely out of control - most VIC providers are increasing rates by another 15 percent in January. There's no doubt that privatised power has delivered much higher prices than if it had remained in public hands despite what the privatisation backers would have you believe. If you look at charts on the price per Kw/h it accelerated beyond inflation after privatisation and in the last several years its been almost exponential, I know several people who will be struggling to pay their bills in the coming year.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
it's a myth that you'll be taxed higher, unless It runs off Sirius* (yes grammar is horrid) government subsidies. generally the profit still goes to the government and in theory spend it how they please
  neillfarmer Chief Train Controller

Everybody would support Government ownership and operation of the railways if they though that a Government could do it. Unfortunately management interference, profit stripping and debt loading, featherbedding and IR pressures are all too irresistible to pollies.
Queensland's power and QR are good examples of the shambles.

Sad as sell-offs and lease outs are they do provide a service for a reasonable price.
Neill Farmer
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: North Haverbrook; where the monorail is king!
Unfortunately management interference, profit stripping and debt loading, featherbedding and IR pressures are all too irresistible to pollies.
Queensland's power and QR are good examples of the shambles.
neillfarmer
Corporatisation is what what causes those issues. Privatisation is the inevitable step after it has been implemented. First you create the disease, then you sell the cure - although the host is always worse off than when they started!

Here's how it starts: You bring in consultants, who recommend you do exactly what you were planning to do. Then you bring in new management (and stop promoting from within), who then start implementing Taylorist nonsense like KPIs everywhere they can, start playing hardball with the unions, cut all expenditures down to the bone, call up some mates in high finance to start looking over the 'new' books and leave with a fat bonus before it all blows up in their face.

Same as it ever was...

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