Location: Melbourne, Australia
Did the Broad Gauge ever reach Maree or was it just the Narrow Gauge and later the Standard Gauge from Stirling?
Marree Broad Gauge
bevans
Site Admin
Location: Melbourne, Australia
justapassenger
Minister for Railways
Just the original narrow gauge and the later standard gauge route bypassing the Flinders Ranges.
No broad gauge ever went any further north than the three junction stations where it met the Port Pirie to Broken Hill line - Port Pirie, Gladstone and Peterborough.
No broad gauge ever went any further north than the three junction stations where it met the Port Pirie to Broken Hill line - Port Pirie, Gladstone and Peterborough.
bevans
Site Admin
Location: Melbourne, Australia
No broad gauge ever went any further north than the three junction stations where it met the Port Pirie to Broken Hill line - Port Pirie, Gladstone and Peterborough.
Thanks for your answer. I assumed this to be the case but wanted to check. At one point was BG in the yard at Crystal Brook?
nscaler69
Deputy Commissioner
Location: There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.
At one point was BG in the yard at Crystal Brook?No.
bevans
Site Admin
Location: Melbourne, Australia
So BG went from Adelaide to Port Pirie and thence to Gladstone?
duttonbay
Minister for Railways
No, there was three lines from Adelaide, to Terowie (and eventually Peterborough), Gladstone, and Port Pirie. The BG line to Port Pirie ran directly from Merriton, via Nurom. That line was opened in conjunction with the SG being extended from Port Augusta to Port Pirie. Crystal Brook would have been a longer route. Pt Pirie-Gladstone-Peterborough was only ever NG and then SG.
nscaler69
Deputy Commissioner
Location: There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.
Have a look at this SAR rail map, might answer your questions.
http://www.johnnyspages.com/scapbook_menu_files/sar_maps.htm
http://www.johnnyspages.com/scapbook_menu_files/sar_maps.htm
ARG706
Chief Commissioner
Location: SA
Marree was narrow gauge from when the line reached there in 1883, and the original 3'6 line from Port Augusta to Marree was replaced by the 4'8 standard gauge line in 1956 which still exists as far as Leigh Creek today. The two lines followed different alignments.
The localities of Hookina, Mern Merna, and Edeowie were left without a train service once the SG line was in operation.
I think Peterborough was about the most northerly town in SA that had BG from 1970 up until when the line closed north of Burra. Beyond that point, it was all NG and SG.
In short, no Red Hens ever made it to Marree
.
The localities of Hookina, Mern Merna, and Edeowie were left without a train service once the SG line was in operation.
I think Peterborough was about the most northerly town in SA that had BG from 1970 up until when the line closed north of Burra. Beyond that point, it was all NG and SG.
In short, no Red Hens ever made it to Marree
.
freightgate
Minister for Railways
Location: Albury, New South Wales
A good summary which leads to what distance in miles was the furthest BG termini in south Australia.
Thanks for commencing the thread.
Thanks for commencing the thread.
Bogong
Chief Commissioner
Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
A good summary which leads to what distance in miles was the furthest BG termini in south Australia.Surely it would have to be Millicent?
Thanks for commencing the thread.
YM-Mundrabilla
Minister for Railways
Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Agree.A good summary which leads to what distance in miles was the furthest BG termini in south Australia.Surely it would have to be Millicent?
Thanks for commencing the thread.
By my reckoning Millicent is 535 km from Mile End.
I believe that this would be the furthest point from Adelaide on the old SAR being further than both Cockburn and Broken Hill.
Bogong
Chief Commissioner
Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
Well, when the South East division was narrow gauge, the Millicent line extended much further to Beachport. But only the track between Mt Gambier and Millicent was converted to broad gauge
YM-Mundrabilla
Minister for Railways
Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Well, when the South East division was narrow gauge, the Millicent line extended much further to Beachport. But only the track between Mt Gambier and Millicent was converted to broad gaugeThanks Bogong.
Any idea how far from Millicent to Beachport, please?
Beachport would therefore have been the most distant SAR station from Adelaide.
allan
Chief Commissioner
Beachport is 355.75 miles from Adelaide - I'll Leave the arithmetic to you!
allan
Chief Commissioner
But Oodnadatta is 688 miles from Adelaide - the SAR got to Marree and didn't stop, there.
YM-Mundrabilla
Minister for Railways
Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Beachport is 355.75 miles from Adelaide - I'll Leave the arithmetic to you!Thanks Allan.
355.75 miles equates to 572.5 km (say 573 km)
YM-Mundrabilla
Minister for Railways
Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
But Oodnadatta is 688 miles from Adelaide - the SAR got to Marree and didn't stop, there.True - the SAR got as far as Darwin. Far further from home than any other Australian system ??
The 688 miles which I have also seen is, I think, a milepost figure from Adelaide via Quorn. The old NG mileposts north of Marree survived until the end of the CAR as far as I know.
Just for interest I make it about 652 miles Adelaide - Oodnadatta via Port Pirie and Stirling North.
Port Pirie - Oodnadatta 516 miles 19 chains (CR Goods rates Book)
Mile End - Port Pirie 136 miles (calculation from RoA Rates Book) I always thought Adelaide - Pirie was 134 miles but depends precisely where you start and finish. 'Passenger' and 'goods' mileages were frequently different by a few km.
All more or less anyway.
An interesting diversion from the original topic, of course.
Dangersdan707
Chief Commissioner
Location: On a Thing with Internet
should have been built to the real gauge, but still diverging from the topic. then we may of had a BG Gahn to Darwin!
awsgc24
Minister for Railways
Location: Sydney
There were proposals to make a one-gauge line to the Barrier (Broken Hill), however NSW wouldn't allow BG into NSW.
The were proposals for a BG Land Grant railway across the Nullabour Plain between SA and WA, but this did not get off the ground.
On the other hand, the stupidity of having a Break-Of-Gauge "only" 40 miles from Adelaide would have been solved by extension of the NG from Hamley Bridge to Adelaide and Port Adelaide. Never got off the ground.
The were proposals for a BG Land Grant railway across the Nullabour Plain between SA and WA, but this did not get off the ground.
On the other hand, the stupidity of having a Break-Of-Gauge "only" 40 miles from Adelaide would have been solved by extension of the NG from Hamley Bridge to Adelaide and Port Adelaide. Never got off the ground.
duttonbay
Minister for Railways
When the SAR was in control of the line to Oodnadatta the route would have been via Terowie and Quorn. The line had passed to Commonwealth ownership before the BG reached Port Pirie. WTT indicates 234½ miles to Quorn, 337.4km, and the ARHS "Australian Railway Routes" says 729.7km* Quorn-Oodnadatta. Total 1067.1km or 663 miles.But Oodnadatta is 688 miles from Adelaide - the SAR got to Marree and didn't stop, there.Just for interest I make it about 652 miles Adelaide - Oodnadatta via Port Pirie and Stirling North.
* if my addition of the sectional distances is correct
YM-Mundrabilla
Minister for Railways
Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
[quote=duttonbay][quote][quote]But Oodnadatta is 688 miles from Adelaide - the SAR got to Marree and didn't stop, there.[/quote]Just for interest I make it about 652 miles Adelaide - Oodnadatta via Port Pirie and Stirling North.[/quote]When the SAR was in control of the line to Oodnadatta the route would have been via Terowie and Quorn. The line had passed to Commonwealth ownership before the BG reached Port Pirie. WTT indicates 234½ miles to Quorn, 337.4km, and the ARHS "Australian Railway Routes" says 729.7km* Quorn-Oodnadatta. Total 1067.1km or 663 miles.
* if my addition of the sectional distances is correct[/quote]Thanks Duttonbay.
I accept 234.5 miles Adelaide to Quorn from your WTT although there is a typo in your metric conversion of this figure which should be 377.4 km. My figure of 235.5 was a Goods Mileage from Mile End.
So far so good!
Beyond Quorn the following sectional distances are from the 1950/51 CR Annual Report:
I have converted the Miles and Chains to decimals of miles. God only knows what RP will do to my beautiful table.
[table][tr] [td][center][b]Section[/b][/center]
[/td] [td][center][b]miles[/b][/center]
[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Quorn to Hawker[/td] [td][right]40.725[/right]
[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Hawker to Beltana[/td] [td][right]78.313[/right]
[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Beltana to Farina[/td] [td][right]54.813[/right]
[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Farina to Marree[/td] [td][right]32.750[/right]
[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Marree to Coward Springs[/td] [td][right]80.075[/right]
[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Coward Springs to William Creek[/td] [td][right]45.213[/right]
[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]William Creek to Warrina[/td] [td][right]67.225[/right]
[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Warrina to Oodnadatta[/td] [td][right]54.475[/right]
[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td][b]Total[/b][/td] [td][right][b]453.589[/b][/right]
[/td] [/tr][/table]
So if we add my 453.589 and your 234.5 we get the magic 688.089 Miles Adelaide to Oodnadatta. 688 Miles is the figure that I first thought of and was 'searching for'. I didn't think that I dream't it but I tread warily these days. 688 miles should be / have been on a milepost at Oodnadatta somewhere
Another mystery solved but it all gets harder as time goes bye.
* if my addition of the sectional distances is correct[/quote]Thanks Duttonbay.
I accept 234.5 miles Adelaide to Quorn from your WTT although there is a typo in your metric conversion of this figure which should be 377.4 km. My figure of 235.5 was a Goods Mileage from Mile End.
So far so good!
Beyond Quorn the following sectional distances are from the 1950/51 CR Annual Report:
I have converted the Miles and Chains to decimals of miles. God only knows what RP will do to my beautiful table.
[table][tr] [td][center][b]Section[/b][/center]
[/td] [td][center][b]miles[/b][/center]
[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Quorn to Hawker[/td] [td][right]40.725[/right]
[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Hawker to Beltana[/td] [td][right]78.313[/right]
[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Beltana to Farina[/td] [td][right]54.813[/right]
[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Farina to Marree[/td] [td][right]32.750[/right]
[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Marree to Coward Springs[/td] [td][right]80.075[/right]
[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Coward Springs to William Creek[/td] [td][right]45.213[/right]
[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]William Creek to Warrina[/td] [td][right]67.225[/right]
[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Warrina to Oodnadatta[/td] [td][right]54.475[/right]
[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td][b]Total[/b][/td] [td][right][b]453.589[/b][/right]
[/td] [/tr][/table]
So if we add my 453.589 and your 234.5 we get the magic 688.089 Miles Adelaide to Oodnadatta. 688 Miles is the figure that I first thought of and was 'searching for'. I didn't think that I dream't it but I tread warily these days. 688 miles should be / have been on a milepost at Oodnadatta somewhere
Another mystery solved but it all gets harder as time goes bye.
YM-Mundrabilla
Minister for Railways
Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Well RP didn't disappoint me re scrambling the table.
So suffice it to say Quorn to Oodnadatta from the 1950/51 CR Annual Report is 453.589 miles and from Adelaide to Quorn is 234.5 miles from Duttonbay's WTT we get 688 miles Adelaide to Oodnadatta via Quorn which is the figure that I first thought of and which Allan stated earlier in this thread.
So suffice it to say Quorn to Oodnadatta from the 1950/51 CR Annual Report is 453.589 miles and from Adelaide to Quorn is 234.5 miles from Duttonbay's WTT we get 688 miles Adelaide to Oodnadatta via Quorn which is the figure that I first thought of and which Allan stated earlier in this thread.
duttonbay
Minister for Railways
Well RP didn't disappoint me re scrambling the table.Yes. with my typo corrected its 1107.1km which converts to 687.9 - which means my addition was correct. For some reason I focused on your "Just for interest" addition and forgot completely that both you and Allan had said 688 miles via Quorn.
So suffice it to say Quorn to Oodnadatta from the 1950/51 CR Annual Report is 453.589 miles and from Adelaide to Quorn is 234.5 miles from Duttonbay's WTT we get 688 miles Adelaide to Oodnadatta via Quorn which is the figure that I first thought of and which Allan stated earlier in this thread.
YM-Mundrabilla
Minister for Railways
Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
No probs Comrade DB.Well RP didn't disappoint me re scrambling the table.Yes. with my typo corrected its 1107.1km which converts to 687.9 - which means my addition was correct. For some reason I focused on your "Just for interest" addition and forgot completely that both you and Allan had said 688 miles via Quorn.
So suffice it to say Quorn to Oodnadatta from the 1950/51 CR Annual Report is 453.589 miles and from Adelaide to Quorn is 234.5 miles from Duttonbay's WTT we get 688 miles Adelaide to Oodnadatta via Quorn which is the figure that I first thought of and which Allan stated earlier in this thread.
We were all correct in the end but I do find that statements that I might have made without a thought 20 years ago I do think twice about these days.
That's not to say that I might still have been wrong both then and now!!!
Some of these little exercises are often more interesting than a great deal of the trivia on here.
nscaler69
Deputy Commissioner
Location: There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.
Did the Broad Gauge ever reach Maree .......Can I ask why you thought Broad gauge even reached Marree?
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