Research Questions re 930's

 
  xdford Chief Train Controller

Hi All,

I am doing some research for a paper on 930 class for the Modelling the Railways of South Australia Convention next year and need a couple of questions answered please?

How many and which 930's were on standard gauge at any one time or ever?  I believe 936/958/961 were but there were others?

There was a reference on the Comrails page to a trial paint scheme on 956 circa 1976... can anyone here describe it or what it might have been?

TIA

Trevor

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  M636C Minister for Railways

Hi All,

I am doing some research for a paper on 930 class for the Modelling the Railways of South Australia Convention next year and need a couple of questions answered please?

How many and which 930's were on standard gauge at any one time or ever?  I believe 936/958/961 were but there were others?

There was a reference on the Comrails page to a trial paint scheme on 956 circa 1976... can anyone here describe it or what it might have been?

TIA

Trevor
xdford

All of the 930s were trialled on standard gauge and delivered to Albury or Melbourne on standard gauge.

I think the book by Chris Banger listing VR loco numbers gives the dates each 930 was in Victoria on delivery....

And of course, 961 still is on standard gauge, although looking quite a lot worse for wear right now.

I'd be happy to check my photos but is isn't easy to tell the gauge if the locomotive is at Keswick or Dry Creek, for example.

Peter
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: On a freight train to crazy town
From memory there were a total of 12 that saw regular service on SG post the 1982 Crystal Brook-Adelaide gauge conversion (before that there were none), but I don't think all 12 were ever on the gauge at the same time.

There was also the proposal to transfer half a dozen to Tasmania for narrow gauge operation sometime in the early 80s that never came to fruition.
  petan Chief Commissioner

Location: Enjoying dinner onboard the QR
931's load trials have raised a question about how far north towards QLD it actually went, as books by two respected authors can be said to differ.

Mick Morahan's Early Diesel and Electric Locomotives of the NSWGR P.117 has 931 working the Brisbane Limited from Broadmeadow (Newcastle area) to Sydney on 10 March 1956.

However, there is also the statement in Ron Preston's 44 class book P.37 that 931 was used on a trial run of the Brisbane Limited on the same date, 10 March 1956, and Preston's text includes the statement that 931 was turned at Yeerongpilly which is in Brisbane, thus asserting 931 worked north of Broadmeadow, Newcastle and hauled the Brisbane Limited Express to and from the QLD capital.
  M636C Minister for Railways

931's load trials have raised a question about how far north towards QLD it actually went, as books by two respected authors can be said to differ.

Mick Morahan's Early Diesel and Electric Locomotives of the NSWGR P.117 has 931 working the Brisbane Limited from Broadmeadow (Newcastle area) to Sydney on 10 March 1956.

However, there is also the statement in Ron Preston's 44 class book P.37 that 931 was used on a trial run of the Brisbane Limited on the same date, 10 March 1956, and Preston's text includes the statement that 931 was turned at Yeerongpilly which is in Brisbane, thus asserting 931 worked north of Broadmeadow, Newcastle and hauled the Brisbane Limited Express to and from the QLD capital.
petan
There was a contemporary report of the trial in "Railway Transportation" magazine.

My recollection was that it ran through to South Brisbane, as a trial for the 44 class then under construction.

Peter
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: On a freight train to crazy town
From memory there were a total of 12 that saw regular service on SG post the 1982 Crystal Brook-Adelaide gauge conversion (before that there were none), but I don't think all 12 were ever on the gauge at the same time.
bingley hall

Well I was wrong there for a start - after thumbing through numerous Catch Point mags it appears the most on SG at any one time was nine.

944/945/949/953/957/960 were all on SG by end of 1982 to work trains post the Adelaide to Crystal Brook standardisation project.

936/956/964 were transferred to SG around April/May 1983 for a total of nine on SG.

949/957 were returned back to BG mid 1984, followed by 945 in late 1984.

An unofficial 'official' listing in CP as at 28/6/85 confirms six on SG - 936/944/953/956/960/964.

960 was back to BG by November 1985.

944 was back to BG by the end of 1986.

So at the start of 1987 936/953/956/964 remained on SG.

More to follow........

(I've gone through my scanned photo collection and 958 turns up later - 961 only went to SG after all the other class members had been withdrawn)
  M636C Minister for Railways

"961 only went to SG after all the other class members had been withdrawn"

In case the original poster had missed this, 961 in its final form had lettering on the bogies reading "830 class traction motors fitted".

This concerned me a little, since 830s and 930s had always had the same traction motors (GE 761 or AEI 253).

However, I think this actually meant that 830 class axles and gear cases had been fitted, ie a set of axles and traction motors intended for the 830 class had been fitted, presumably because no spares existed for 930s after the decision to withdraw them.

What this meant was that the gear ratio was different, which would affect the speed at which the maximum continuous tractive effort would be achieved.

I'm not sure whether this contributed to it remaining stored in Goulburn or not. Certainly the owners (ARHS ACT) had other 44 class and 48 class locomotives and may have been concerned that some components could not be interchanged as desired.

It is a pity that it wasn't dragged the 100 metres or so to the roundhouse at Goulburn for the "Streamliners" display as the last 930 class in traffic and the last on standard gauge.

Peter
  br30453 Train Controller

931's load trials have raised a question about how far north towards QLD it actually went, as books by two respected authors can be said to differ.

Mick Morahan's Early Diesel and Electric Locomotives of the NSWGR P.117 has 931 working the Brisbane Limited from Broadmeadow (Newcastle area) to Sydney on 10 March 1956.

However, there is also the statement in Ron Preston's 44 class book P.37 that 931 was used on a trial run of the Brisbane Limited on the same date, 10 March 1956, and Preston's text includes the statement that 931 was turned at Yeerongpilly which is in Brisbane, thus asserting 931 worked north of Broadmeadow, Newcastle and hauled the Brisbane Limited Express to and from the QLD capital.
There was a contemporary report of the trial in "Railway Transportation" magazine.

My recollection was that it ran through to South Brisbane, as a trial for the 44 class then under construction.

Peter
M636C
    This unusual picture shows the arrival at Sydney station of an SAR 930-elass diesel-electric locomotive at the head of NSWGR's Brisbane Limited express, on March 10. The locomotive had worked the northbound Limited as far as Broadmeadow on the previous night in a test trip arranged at the request of the builders, A. E. Goodwin, Ltd. Locomotive performance was recorded in the NSWGR's dynamometer marshalled as the second vehicle as it is not fitted with automatic couplers. Messrs. Stephen Angle and Harold Ericson, of Alco Products Inc. (USA) and Goodwin engineers travelled on the engine.

Reprinted from Railway Transportation, April, 1956


  petan Chief Commissioner

Location: Enjoying dinner onboard the QR
931's load trials have raised a question about how far north towards QLD it actually went, as books by two respected authors can be said to differ.

Mick Morahan's Early Diesel and Electric Locomotives of the NSWGR P.117 has 931 working the Brisbane Limited from Broadmeadow (Newcastle area) to Sydney on 10 March 1956.

However, there is also the statement in Ron Preston's 44 class book P.37 that 931 was used on a trial run of the Brisbane Limited on the same date, 10 March 1956, and Preston's text includes the statement that 931 was turned at Yeerongpilly which is in Brisbane, thus asserting 931 worked north of Broadmeadow, Newcastle and hauled the Brisbane Limited Express to and from the QLD capital.
There was a contemporary report of the trial in "Railway Transportation" magazine.

My recollection was that it ran through to South Brisbane, as a trial for the 44 class then under construction.

Peter
    This unusual picture shows the arrival at Sydney station of an SAR 930-elass diesel-electric locomotive at the head of NSWGR's Brisbane Limited express, on March 10. The locomotive had worked the northbound Limited as far as Broadmeadow on the previous night in a test trip arranged at the request of the builders, A. E. Goodwin, Ltd. Locomotive performance was recorded in the NSWGR's dynamometer marshalled as the second vehicle as it is not fitted with automatic couplers. Messrs. Stephen Angle and Harold Ericson, of Alco Products Inc. (USA) and Goodwin engineers travelled on the engine.

Reprinted from Railway Transportation, April, 1956


br30453
Thanks Arthur Smile  and I have just amended the two books I mentioned accordingly.
  DJPeters Junior Train Controller

Trevor the trail paint scheme could be like the one the 900's had for a while no bow wave (chevron) on the front as it would be all brown. It was not a very good idea and it was repainted with the silver chevron back on it after a short time because it was hard to see at the best of times! I think the union kicked up a stink over it as well so that is why it got the chevron replaced!
  xdford Chief Train Controller

Trevor the trail paint scheme could be like the one the 900's had for a while no bow wave (chevron) on the front as it would be all brown. It was not a very good idea and it was repainted with the silver chevron back on it after a short time because it was hard to see at the best of times! I think the union kicked up a stink over it as well so that is why it got the chevron replaced!
DJPeters
Hi David,

The 900's had that treatment for quite a number of years as I recall, certainly the late 60's to about 1970 or so and they seemed to be quite dark very quickly...  when you say it "could be" are you meaning that it "could have been" or "could be regarded as similar to 900 class"? Would that scheme have been applied to both ends? Photographs in a "Recorder" at all? The Comrail page quotes 1976!

Thanks for the input!

Regards

Trevor
  alcoworldseries Deputy Commissioner

Location: Auburn
From memory the thinking with this set of bogies that found their way under various 930's was 830 class gearing in an attempt to reduce traction motor generated ground relays I think gearing finished up being 57:18. To the best of my knowledge only one set of 930 bogies so fitted and they definitely fitted with BG wheel sets early on.


"961 only went to SG after all the other class members had been withdrawn"


In case the original poster had missed this, 961 in its final form had lettering on the bogies reading "830 class traction motors fitted".

This concerned me a little, since 830s and 930s had always had the same traction motors (GE 761 or AEI 253).

However, I think this actually meant that 830 class axles and gear cases had been fitted, ie a set of axles and traction motors intended for the 830 class had been fitted, presumably because no spares existed for 930s after the decision to withdraw them.

What this meant was that the gear ratio was different, which would affect the speed at which the maximum continuous tractive effort would be achieved.

I'm not sure whether this contributed to it remaining stored in Goulburn or not. Certainly the owners (ARHS ACT) had other 44 class and 48 class locomotives and may have been concerned that some components could not be interchanged as desired.

It is a pity that it wasn't dragged the 100 metres or so to the roundhouse at Goulburn for the "Streamliners" display as the last 930 class in traffic and the last on standard gauge.

Peter
M636C
  alcoworldseries Deputy Commissioner

Location: Auburn
Also add 966 (and possibly 955) to list 966 spent many years on rotten row at Port Augusta works prior to scrapping I think 955 may have also ended its days there
  xdford Chief Train Controller

Also add 966 (and possibly 955) to list 966 spent many years on rotten row at Port Augusta works prior to scrapping I think 955 may have also ended its days there
alcoworldseries
I did see a photo where it appeared that 966 was on an Indian Pacific but it was difficult to read and positively confirm the number... also the Comrail pic of 943 looks as though it has a HGM Power Car or HM Baggage Car attached and strangely looks as if it is at Wallaroo? The pic is not well defined so if someone could clarify that please?  I do not know the extent of the SG trackage at Wallaroo was  let alone around where I think the coaling tower was! I have only been there once by rail so any input would be appreciated!

TIA

Trevor
  DJPeters Junior Train Controller

I have seen a photograph of this all over regal red nose colour scheme in a book or a magazine but cannot for the life of me remember where now though. It lasted a while though but the rail union kicked up about visibility problems with it and it was justified as well. It was only done to save time in the paint shop and thus get a locomotive back into traffic sooner. I don't know if it was just one loco or several though that got this treatment. I seem to recall a photo although black and white in the recorder magazine one year.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: On a freight train to crazy town
Also add 966 (and possibly 955) to list 966 spent many years on rotten row at Port Augusta works prior to scrapping I think 955 may have also ended its days there
I did see a photo where it appeared that 966 was on an Indian Pacific but it was difficult to read and positively confirm the number... also the Comrail pic of 943 looks as though it has a HGM Power Car or HM Baggage Car attached and strangely looks as if it is at Wallaroo? The pic is not well defined so if someone could clarify that please?  I do not know the extent of the SG trackage at Wallaroo was  let alone around where I think the coaling tower was! I have only been there once by rail so any input would be appreciated!

TIA

Trevor
xdford

966 unlikely - only on SG bogies to get it to Port Augusta.

943 - pretty sure was BG loco shunting SG stock - 943 wasn't on the gauge at that time. I have a pic of the same move somewhere.

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