Tram Superstops causing business to go broke?

 
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

The problem comes down to the fact that Melbourne has tram lines down the middle of narrow roadways and there is nowhere to put an accessible stop. So the only way to make PT available to the disabled is with a modern bus that can pick up wheelchairs from the footpath. Sydney road for example has nowhere to build a super stop north of brunswick road for a significant distance.
Accessible stops can be built simply by raising the road.
railblogger

No they can't. Raising the road would raise the trams as well. Meaning that you aren't achieving anything.

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  kitchgp Chief Train Controller

They do do that. From Yarra Trams website’s Accessible Stops page:
http://www.yarratrams.com.au/using-trams/accessible-journeys/using-accessible-stops/

Easy Access Stop - Types 1 & 2. Examples of Type 2 are those in Bridge Road, Richmond.

As alluded to above, the term superstop (probably an initial marketing grabber) has been replaced by Accessible Stop. There’s supposedly 400 of the various types in operation.
  woodford Chief Commissioner

A woodford, opinion you have been warned.

A number of points for the discussion..........

1: Nearly all retail outlets are suffering greatly from online shopping, recently I was forced into online shopping for health reasons and I found I could get what I wanted delivered to my remote location a good deal cheaper and easier than from a local shop. Landlords REALLY need to get a grip on reality here. For instance a particular "cam clutch" bearing in Australia will cost you around 200 to 250 australian dollars, one can get the same bearing online in Britain  and delivered to Aus for around 40 dollars.

2: on disablities,
In the past people with disabiities simply slowly faded away and ended up dieing in effect from boredom. With the VASTLY improved ways of getting around they can now readily particpate in society helping both them selves and many others along the way.

3: A factor effecting this is public transport in Melbourne is NOT that easy to figure out if one is NOT used to it, this is NOT helped by a good percentage of people will NOT walk more than 100 or so metres, which put  a lot of retail premises out of effective range.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Why are we building these super stops which do not assist 99.99999% of people using the network and are a hindrance to the retail outlets who have seen their customers driven away?
"x31"

I want to know why they aren't building accessible stops. The entire eastern side of the Yarra Trams network is completely useless to anyone who is beyond 2 kilometres from the Hoddle Grid.

Routes 16, 48, 72 and 109 all have low floor trams yet there is nowhere whatsoever to go from one tram to another (e.g. 109 to 16, transferring from a low floor C class to a low floor D class) unless someone wants to take a trip all the way into the city and back out. That isn't even possible on the 16 and 72 as there are no low floor accessible stops at the outer ends at all, except at Gardiner station.

On the 70 and 75, they troll the disabled by having a hundred accessible stops all the way to the end of the line (75) but running nothing except A and B class trams because Camberwell Depot got the short end of the stick.
  Valvegear The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Norda Fittazroy
I am eagerly awaiting the day when x31 actually puts up some solid evidence for his claim that tram stops are the cause of the decline in business.  He may be interested to know that are many factors in play, and that one statement from an estate agent proves absolutely nothing.
  Clyde Goodwin2 Chief Train Controller

I am eagerly awaiting the day when x31 actually puts up some solid evidence for his claim that tram stops are the cause of the decline in business.  He may be interested to know that are many factors in play, and that one statement from an estate agent proves absolutely nothing.
Valvegear
I am actualy hoping that he becomes one of the 1% that he despises so much.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
The problem comes down to the fact that Melbourne has tram lines down the middle of narrow roadways and there is nowhere to put an accessible stop. So the only way to make PT available to the disabled is with a modern bus that can pick up wheelchairs from the footpath. Sydney road for example has nowhere to build a super stop north of brunswick road for a significant distance.
Accessible stops can be built simply by raising the road.

No they can't. Raising the road would raise the trams as well. Meaning that you aren't achieving anything.
simstrain
The tram tracks say at the same level, It's the traffic lane alongside the tram tracks that gets raised to footpath level like a long speed hump.
  Matthew Junior Train Controller

I think they did something like that in High St Northcote they extended the footpath out which closed one lane around the tram stops.IMO these type of stops grid lock traffic.
amb

Nope - people trying and failing to reverse park cause WAY more disruption than the trams stopping every 500m metres. That's the main cause of 'gridlock', not the trams.
Universally ban on-street parking and even if you close the former parking lane to traffic and made the footpaths wider, even with only one lane each way, the traffic would flow MUCH better - even with the trams stopping every 300-600m down the road as there won't be people stopping at random places down the street and attempting to park.

I have observed this effect in both Sydney and Melbourne on narrow 'traditional' shopping stip roads. The same congestion happens on strip shop streets without trams.

The last time I rode a tram down such a street in Melbourne, the tram spent more time stopped in traffic held by a parking car that the tram spent stopped at tram stops. Way more.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Right-turning vehicles is also a major problem for trams, where the cars stop dead on the tram tracks waiting for a hole in the traffic or a green arrow. Hook turns were created for a reason, yet hardly any roads outside the CBD seem to require them, so everyone stops on the tracks blocking trams (and blocking road vehicles intending to continue straight ahead as well). The further a tram is from an intersection due to a line of cars on the tram tracks, the less likely the lights will stay green by the time the tram gets to the intersection, which means another two minutes of the tram sitting there waiting for the light cycle to end and the white T to light up. And then only to stop because there are a bunch of passengers getting on or off the tram, of which coincides with the lights going from green to amber and red for yet another cycle of waiting, good fun!
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Not to mention people don't actually bother to look out for a tram.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

The tram tracks say at the same level, It's the traffic lane alongside the tram tracks that gets raised to footpath level like a long speed hump.
Nightfire

Is traffic closed along the speed hump?

If so then you would still have issues with safety and vehicles sharing a path with pedestrians / commuters. It would be better to close the traffic lane and make it into a fully accessible stop with waiting shed.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
The tram tracks say at the same level, It's the traffic lane alongside the tram tracks that gets raised to footpath level like a long speed hump.

Is traffic closed along the speed hump?

If so then you would still have issues with safety and vehicles sharing a path with pedestrians / commuters. It would be better to close the traffic lane and make it into a fully accessible stop with waiting shed.
simstrain
No, but vehicles must stop level with the back of the tram to allow passengers to board/alight.
  kitchgp Chief Train Controller


Is traffic closed along the speed hump?

If so then you would still have issues with safety and vehicles sharing a path with pedestrians / commuters. It would be better to close the traffic lane and make it into a fully accessible stop with waiting shed.
simstrain
Same road rules apply as those at a conventional stop. Easy Access Stop examples linked above.
  Tony M. Station Master

The biggest problem is that landlords haven't worked out yet that they need to adjust the rents to meet the new retail reality. Another problem is that as soon as they lower the rent the value of the building drops and if they are hocked to the hilt the bank comes a knocking.

BG
BrentonGolding

I was told once years ago that the reason why so many shops in the Geelong CBD were vacant for years at a time was that the owners basically had them as a tax write-off. They were already so wealthy that the various tax advantages from having a building valued at $X million dollars was worth more to them than the income from renting the building out.

So as far as they were concerned leaving the building empty (but having it valued at some unrealistic rate) was a better result than renting it out, if they could only rent it at a lower rate.
  Peter Spyker Train Controller

The problem comes down to the fact that Melbourne has tram lines down the middle of narrow roadways and there is nowhere to put an accessible stop. So the only way to make PT available to the disabled is with a modern bus that can pick up wheelchairs from the footpath. Sydney road for example has nowhere to build a super stop north of brunswick road for a significant distance.
simstrain

Ridiculous. Far more people access the shops by tram than they do by car, and putting in a bus would not only block traffic, it would result in considerably fewer people using public transport, because everybody hates buses.

The solution to the Sydney Rd problem is to get rid of parking altogether, stop cars driving on the tram tracks and then raise platforms out from the side of the road. The shopkeepers can whinge until they are blue in the face, but their customer base is not coming from people who park on the street.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
They do do that. From Yarra Trams website’s Accessible Stops page:
http://www.yarratrams.com.au/using-trams/accessible-journeys/using-accessible-stops/

Easy Access Stop - Types 1 & 2. Examples of Type 2 are those in Bridge Road, Richmond.

As alluded to above, the term superstop (probably an initial marketing grabber) has been replaced by Accessible Stop. There’s supposedly 400 of the various types in operation.
kitchgp

The real question then becomes do you superstop every stop or do you rationalise the number of superstops being deployed and add accessible bus routes to assist those less fortunate as has been suggested?
  kitchgp Chief Train Controller

(Wheelchair) Accessible Stop
(Wheelchair) Easy Access Stop

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