With the organisations being given long term notice to vacate Newport does Ballart East become a viable alternative?Forgive me, but what is this about? Why do they have to vacate Newport?
There's no easy solution on the radar to 'The Newport Problem'. Seymour Loco is the only other mainline depot with anything approaching the room and facilities of Newport West Block and SRHC would be hard-pressed to accommodate any other mainline group on site other than DERMPAV. Ditto Castlemaine, even after the VGR's proposed yard redevelopment.There is plenty of room at Castlemaine for future expansion if funds permitted.
Enough room to store say 707 Ops' collection as well as the VGR's fleet? And what about Steamrail, with their much larger predominantly wooden-bodied carriage fleet that really needs to be stored undercover if they aren't regularly used?There's no easy solution on the radar to 'The Newport Problem'. Seymour Loco is the only other mainline depot with anything approaching the room and facilities of Newport West Block and SRHC would be hard-pressed to accommodate any other mainline group on site other than DERMPAV. Ditto Castlemaine, even after the VGR's proposed yard redevelopment.There is plenty of room at Castlemaine for future expansion if funds permitted.
Ah, you see, this is where the question becomes interesting. You said "to accommodate any other mainline group on site other than DERMPAV. Ditto Castlemaine, even after the VGR's proposed yard redevelopment" which is what I was responding to. I wasn't trying to say Castlemaine could accomodate the entire Newport fleet I merely said there was plenty of extra room which could be used to accomodate one or even a couple of other operators. Steamrail and the VGR already run a Joint Venture partnership so there may be some synergies there.Enough room to store say 707 Ops' collection as well as the VGR's fleet? And what about Steamrail, with their much larger predominantly wooden-bodied carriage fleet that really needs to be stored undercover if they aren't regularly used?There's no easy solution on the radar to 'The Newport Problem'. Seymour Loco is the only other mainline depot with anything approaching the room and facilities of Newport West Block and SRHC would be hard-pressed to accommodate any other mainline group on site other than DERMPAV. Ditto Castlemaine, even after the VGR's proposed yard redevelopment.There is plenty of room at Castlemaine for future expansion if funds permitted.
Rather than pathetically beg "the Powers That Be" for a new location for mainline preserved train operations, perhaps it's better to be proactive and approach them with an "everybody wins" solution.May I suggest that you go and talk to the Steamrail board about your proposal? I'm sure they'd love to hear it.
If the groups at Newport / North Willy can get their act together and agree on a unified approach (not sure that is possible), they could go to both the political party in government and the opposition with a policy proposal
Rather than pathetically beg "the Powers That Be" for a new location for mainline preserved train operations, perhaps it's better to be proactive and approach them with an "everybody wins" solution.The museum will never move,in the overall scheme of things it only occupies a small parcel of land .The cost of moving 30 odd locos and rolling stock many which haven't moved for over 50 years would be huge, not to mention the possibility of damage in particular to the wooden stock after all those years in open storage.I was involved with the museum in the 1980,s and there was talk the museum would move into old Melbourne goods shed as the government at the time was very keen on it, but when they done the sums it was put in the too hard basket.
If the groups at Newport / North Willy can get their act together and agree on a unified approach (not sure that is possible), they could go to both the political party in government and the opposition with a policy proposal:
The groups agree to vacate the area without kicking up a stink, allowing the state government to sell parts of it for hundreds of millions.
In return, the government agrees to spend part of their windfall on building a new transport museum (and provide funds for operation and curation) at a paddock on the outskirts of a country town around 60 minutes from the city centre (90 minutes tops). If that location is just a museum incorporating the ARHS collection and other heritage transport, it doesn't need to be on a railway line. But if operational groups like 707, Steamrail, et. al. are involved them obviously it does.
The everybody wins result is that:Now this idea is far from perfect, but it's an attempt to face the reality that one day rail preservation groups will be evicted from North Williamstown and much of Newport. If rail groups approach the government and opposition with something like this, they can start the ball rolling with a better long term outcome than if they just sit back and allow the bureaucrats and politicians to do whatever they like with only a small and largely unheard protest in response.
- The state government gets a bumper haul of cash. Even after buying a farm paddock and building a museum, they will have lots of moolah left over.
- The state government gets political credit for building a "world class" transport museum (even if some things are initially housed in cheap farm sheds).
- A country town (probably in a marginal parliamentary seat?) gets a big tourist attraction and extra flow of cash into local businesses.
- Rail fans (and other transport buffs) get a decent museum.
- If that museum has an annexe for train restoration and operations then more of the Newport area would be available for the government to sell. But that would require a second farm paddock to be bought, a few more agricultural sheds to be errected and a lot of expensive track work.
*Gets ready to hide when people who can't face the reality that they don't have the Newport land for ever start hurling stuff at him.*
The museum will never move,in the overall scheme of things it only occupies a small parcel of land .The cost of moving 30 odd locos and rolling stock many which haven't moved for over 50 years would be huge, not to mention the possibility of damage in particular to the wooden stock after all those years in open storage.I was involved with the museum in the 1980,s and there was talk the museum would move into old Melbourne goods shed as the government at the time was very keen on it, but when they done the sums it was put in the too hard basket.I'm sad to say that I have to agree. Eventually, we'll be left with heaps of iron oxide and sawdust. The efforts of the volunteers there are nothing short of heroic, but they're kicking into the wind with a wet ball. No government agency or department gives two hoots about the State's railway history, and the job is just too big for the faithful few.
Echuca, like Ballarat, is seeing more heritage trains as they can be a day trip and will attract the public. The number of available destinations has been reduced by 'line improvements', increasing demand for regular services and the bigger speed differential (in the old days it was only a 20mph(32kmh) difference now it's 80kmh or 50mph). With more lines being converted to Standard Gauge I can see the time coming when the steam traffic will be handled by gauge converted R and J classes with the rest being used on suburban shuttles.In what I would call "the old days" an R class on a fan-trip could travel at 70mph, with no speed differential between it and a regular train.
Thanks for the thoughtful response amb. I guess I was envisioning a transport museum with interactive displays and giant (but cheap) agricultural sheds out the back housing big stuff like trains, buses, bullock drays, etc., rather than just a static display of steam locomotives, but obviously anything would be better than the fragmented and uncurated "collections of stuff" we have now.Have a look at Google earth photo and you will see what I mean, the museum is sandwiched between the Downer workshops and main Altona Yarraville oil pipe line, not much to gain by moving the museum.Also the site would have to be decontaminated big bucks there and then several years before any construction could start.
But I still reckon selling the land would raise over twice the money required to build a proper museum and move large and small displays to it. The tens of millions left over could be used by politicians for pork barrelling and election promises.
Land in hipster suburbs is horrifyingly expensive. A standard empty 5 x 31 metre terrace house block, (155 square metres), sells for well over a million in the inner suburbs. Now Williamstown is slightly cheaper than that, but the plan will take a few years and with rapidly rising house prices, I think we can assume that height restricted 155 square metre blocks in North Willy would easily sell for $1 million, a lot more if developers were allowed to build 6 story high blocks of flats on the land. So let's round that to a land value of $6,500 per square metre.
The ARHS land at North Willy is a bit over 300 metres x 50 metres, about 15,300 square metres. 15,300 x $6,500 = $100 million dollars. If you allowed 6 story high flats to be built there you would get a lot more, maybe $150 million. If more nearby railway land was sold, there would be even more money.
Now people may dispute my assumptions and land valuations but if just the ARHS occupied land was sold for even half my estimated price, or just $50 million, that would pay for:I reckon you could do that for $50 million. It wouldn't be super slick, but it would be pretty good. Later on fund raising campaigns and government grants could improve it further.
- Buying a farm paddock around 60 km from the city, preferably next to a town in a marginal seat to help sell the idea to politicians
- Building a large main building for the entrance, interactive displays, cafes, etc. It can be fairly basic but would probably have a pretty facade
- A dozen giant agricultural machinery sheds out the back to house large exhibits like steam locomotives, trucks, boats, buggies, etc. Maybe even trams.
- 20 days hire of those huge semi trailer combo thingys they use to move stuff like static locomotives and boats.
- Fit out costs, laying track in the machinery sheds, building display cases in the main building, etc.
- Hiring a skilled museum curator, a volunteer co-ordinator and a few other staff and paying them for a year before opening.
So if the land sold for my estimated cost of $100 million, then that's a LOT of spare money to the state government for politicians to play with. If it sold for $150 million, the pollys would be as happy as pigs in mud. They would get lots of money and we get a quality transport museum. Everyone wins.
Hello? I stated that a part of the museum is under cover now!!! the bit that contains the oldest stock and locoYes I know part of it is covered,anyway its not so much the rain that does the damage its the sun UV rays which breaks down the paint which in turns allows the water to penetrate the steel or timber.
Not to mention the lovely Salt air that Williamstown is famous for!Hello? I stated that a part of the museum is under cover now!!! the bit that contains the oldest stock and locoYes I know part of it is covered,anyway its not so much the rain that does the damage its the sun UV rays which breaks down the paint which in turns allows the water to penetrate the steel or timber.
With the organisations being given long term notice to vacate Newport does Ballart East become a viable alternative?Forgive me, but what is this about? Why do they have to vacate Newport?