The Ashes 2017/18

 
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Does the system work? It's a bit inconclusive really, over the last year and a bit the team has lost a home series to South Africa, beaten a meak Pakistan side at home, put up a reasonably good fight in an away series against India, lost a Test to Bangladesh and now flogged the worst England side to tour here since the Freddie Flintoff Booze Cruise. There's a four Test series in South Africa coming up, let's hold off deciding until then.

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If you've actually played cricket (or any other team sport) then you would know that the laws of any sport are only a starting point for learning about it, and there's a hell of a lot more to how a team works together on (and off) the field than that. Different teams within the same sport work differently, and that's emphasised in interdependent team sports like cricket as opposed to independent team sports where there's little complexity beyond each member performing their personal role. A team that is short on star power but works well together can get good results that you wouldn't expect based on a pure head-to-head comparison of the players - look at Pakistan's victory in the Test series in England last year for a great cricket example, or the Western Bulldogs premiership team for an example from another sport.

Going back to the wicketkeeper example, here's a handful of the relevant points that an incoming player would need to pick up:
How does Smith communicate bowling tactics to the rest of the team, compared to the player's normal state captain?
How involved does the wicketkeeper get in setting the field?
Who shines the ball?
What signals are used between the field and the dressing room?
How does the group field as a team?
What are the team norms in the times spent off the field during a Test?

That's all stuff that Paine had a couple of weeks to get used to during training and team meetings in the leadup to the first Test, but which a last-minute replacement would have to try and pick up very quickly. Renshaw and Handscomb were intentionally selected when they came into the side last year and had nearly a week to get used to the team environment, they didn't come in at no notice as a backup wicketkeeper would have to in the event of a late injury.

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  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Going back to the wicketkeeper example, here's a handful of the relevant points that an incoming player would need to pick up:

How does Smith communicate bowling tactics to the rest of the team, compared to the player's normal state captain?

How involved does the wicketkeeper get in setting the field?

Who shines the ball?

What signals are used between the field and the dressing room?

How does the group field as a team?

What are the team norms in the times spent off the field during a Test?
"justapassenger"


Ok - in order:-

1. Bowling tactics are not communicated - the captain sets an appropriate field. Team meetings are held before play when any of these discussions are held.
2. The wicketkeeper is not involved in setting the field unless asked. He may well offer the odd observation about what the ball is doing when sensible captains take note.
3. Who shines the ball? Are you joking? A newcomer needs a lead-up match to learn something that takes 15 seconds to tell?
4. Signals between the field and the dressing room? What sort of signals, for God's sake? There should not be any signals, the captain is in charge on the field.
5. How does the group field as a team? What on earth does that mean? Fielding is basic - catch, field, pick-up, throw, back-up and field where you're placed. You don't field as a team, you field as a member of a team.
6. What are the team norms etc? Find out in your first Test regardless of the state of the series.

It seems that you are used to captaincy-by-committee, instead of the captain being in sole command on the ground. For heaven's sake, never let Ian Chappell hear you say so.
I am of the opinion that anyone selected to play for Australia is a grown man, and doesn't need the mollycoddling that you want to provide.
Cricket is a simple game, and does not need complications added to it.
  petan Chief Commissioner

Location: Waiting to see a zebra using a zebra crossing!
Valvegear, interestingly you have disagreed with my post, but then said essentially the same thing, albeit with many more words!

Graham, where did I disagree with your post? I haven't made any comment on it at all.

As it happens, I do disagree with the comment "Good thinking" concerning justapassenger's idea, but I most definitely agree with you about sticking it to the Poms.
Valvegear
Valvegear, sorry but the 'Post Reputation' section of Graham's post has one 'X' disagree and when you click on that it shows your name as responsible 18 Dec 2017 20:28.  

  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Valvegear, sorry but the 'Post Reputation' section of Graham's post has one 'X' disagree and when you click on that it shows your name as responsible 18 Dec 2017 20:28.  
"petan"
Holy mackerel - I must have the worst case of fat fingers ever seen - that was certainly not intentional. My apologies to Graham4405.
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
Valvegear, interestingly you have disagreed with my post, but then said essentially the same thing, albeit with many more words!

Graham, where did I disagree with your post? I haven't made any comment on it at all.

As it happens, I do disagree with the comment "Good thinking" concerning justapassenger's idea, but I most definitely agree with you about sticking it to the Poms.
Valvegear
You didn't comment, but you did click the "Disagree" button. Also when I said "Good thinking" I meant that I understood the (faulty) reasoning, poorly worded actually! Apology accepted.

As a matter of interest, you can undo the disagree "click" by clicking another post reputation button! Wink
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Thanks Graham,
I must have done something careless - moving the mouse and not paying attention or something equally dumb. I even saw the Disagree and wondered who put it there!
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Nice one-liner in today's Age: "A few reasons why England's Ashes campaign has come unstuck: Alastair's Cooked, Stuart's Bored and Joe is, well he's not himself, is he?"
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
Steve Smith yet again on top at the MCG, he is on 65 not out at Stumps on day 1 of the Boxing Day Test, Shaun Marsh is on 31, Aussies will resume day 2 at 244/3, David Warner scored a 100 as well, he would of been out on 99, but the bowler overstepped on the line, and a no ball was called, he notched up his hundred the very next ball

Kind Regards
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
One is compelled to wonder just what Khawaja believes the role of a number 3 to be. He came in after an opening partnership of 122 - an ideal situation. He then made no visible attempt to score when his job was to keep the scoreboard moving. Push a single here or there and hit the odd bad ball for more is what was needed. But, no. He obviously believes that "footwork" is a dirty word. He poked, firm-footed, to an extent that his innings was nothing more than a millstone around Australia's neck. Number three batsmen I have seen such as Hassett, Harvey, Miller, Chappelli, Boon, Ponting et al always attempted to exert their authority and not allow the bowlers to dominate. Khawaja is of very questionable value. Bancroft didn't score many but he held up an end while Warner made merry, and was a vital part of the century opening stand by helping to see off the new ball. Smith and S Marsh appear comfortable and could push on to a respectable score tomorrow if the breaks go their way.
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
Just out of interest, what are anyone's thoughts on the front foot no ball rule?? do away with it, and revert back to the back foot no ball? I don't have an opinion either way, I'm just curious to see what other's think

Kind Regards
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
The back foot rule is certainly easier for the umpires.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Boring day of cricket yesterday  

That pitch is so flat there is nothing in it.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Yesterday wasn't helped by the most negative England captaincy I have seen for years. Seven men on the off side and bowling near wides to Warner.
That field meant two things:-
1. "We don't think we can get you out'"
2. Bowlers can't attack the stumps.

Warner's most common mode of dismissal is caught at backward point off a top-edged attempt at a square cut. He did it at least four times on the last England tour here. One wonders what Root was watching at the time, because he made no attempt yesterday to attack that particular weakness, despite Warner playing that very stroke a couple of times. Mark Taylor, among others, commented on that very issue.
Root, and his coach (if he approves of such tactics) should be arrested for the attempted murder of Test cricket.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

One is compelled to wonder just what Khawaja believes the role of a number 3 to be. He came in after an opening partnership of 122 - an ideal situation. He then made no visible attempt to score when his job was to keep the scoreboard moving. Push a single here or there and hit the odd bad ball for more is what was needed. But, no. He obviously believes that "footwork" is a dirty word. He poked, firm-footed, to an extent that his innings was nothing more than a millstone around Australia's neck. Number three batsmen I have seen such as Hassett, Harvey, Miller, Chappelli, Boon, Ponting et al always attempted to exert their authority and not allow the bowlers to dominate. Khawaja is of very questionable value. Bancroft didn't score many but he held up an end while Warner made merry, and was a vital part of the century opening stand by helping to see off the new ball. Smith and S Marsh appear comfortable and could push on to a respectable score tomorrow if the breaks go their way.
Valvegear

I don;t disagree with what you say, but IMHO Warner and Khawaja are batting out of position.  Warner should be 3, he fits the role perfectly, an UK opening.  As for lack of footwork: Khawaja is a back foot player, as are most/all of the Aussies, and Poms for that matter.  DRS has rubbed front foot players out of the game.

Khawaja is a fluent strokemaker - in the right conditions.  He needs to be able to drive through the line on the up (because he doesn't get far forward).  He's able to cut and pull balls that arn't that short.  But of the pitch is a bit slow and/or doing a bit, attacks can pitch the ball up to UK and he struggles to score, and defends with some risk.

IMHO Warner and Smith made batting on Day 1 look easy, but it wasn't easy, and everyone else struggled a bit.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
It seems that someone has kicked Joe Root in the pants. Today we saw England set fields and bowl to get Australia out, and it worked. Then Alastair Cook rediscovered his old form and has a ton in red ink at stumps, with Root on the verge of a fifty.
Definitely England's day.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

Then Alastair Cook rediscovered his old form and has a ton in red ink at stumps...
Valvegear

He looks a different player when he doesn't have to face Starc.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Then Alastair Cook rediscovered his old form and has a ton in red ink at stumps...

He looks a different player when he doesn't have to face Starc.
djf01
Too bad for Orstralia then that Starc is not up to the rigours of Test cricket Razz
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Correction, bing - Orstraya.

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