State Govt's Regional Rail Revival

 
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
My statement was general and not intend to call out specific detail.  As for no room, the current peir structures could Why not just terminate the Gippsland service at Pakenham?
James974

Will NEVER happen...don't think you can raise this turkey of an idea every few months to get a reaction.

It's amazing how citycentric posters think...ohh yeah...just terminate the Gippsland services at Pakenham.

Mike.

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  Lockspike Deputy Commissioner

Will NEVER happen...don't think you can raise this turkey of an idea every few months to get a reaction.

It's amazing how citycentric posters think...ohh yeah...just terminate the Gippsland services at Pakenham.

Mike.
The Vinelander
I'm sure the very accommodating outer suburban passengers will generously offer to stand allowing the longer distance commuters to sit down, after they manage to squeeze onto Metro's already crowded 'service'.
  HcoteJunct Junior Train Controller

This morning on the local Gippsland ABC news the delays were mentioned in the Metro system of the past few days.  It was interesting that it was mentioned the lost opportunity of the skyrail travesty has destined Gippslanders (and outer eastern suburbs) to not having additional express tracks.   None of the designs have strategic allowance for additional tracks, let alone having them built now as part of the project.  I don't think anyone could argue that the need for additional tracks is essentially now, or near future, and that the project should allow for it.
skitz
Unfortunately the chance to break out of not "sufficiently planning for the future/because we've always done it this way" was lost when the section of the Frankston line was grade separated between Ormond and Bentleigh.  Instead of thinking about the future, the government simply replaced the existing track layout. I'd imagine that the cost of providing a third platform at the three rebuilt stations would have been about the same as providing four tracks (two local and two express) and an island platform in the middle.  

Same thing should have happened when the Dandenong corridor was being planned.  Where there was room, four tracks should have been built.  When there is money available in the future, and the political will for property acquisition, link up the four track sections.

Cheers,
Scott
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
Children being born today will likely live until the year 2100. That is the year we should be aiming to plan for. Instead we can barely plan for 5 years away.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Same old thing, majority of politicians make the majority of their decisions based on an election cylce.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Was just leafing through the VLine Network Service Plan for a bit of light reading on a Sunday morning and I came across Class 2M track in the document below

https://corporate.vline.com.au/Network-Access/Network-service-plan

Does anyone know what the difference between Class 2 and Class 2 M is? I found a reference in an old document to Class 2U but I can't find the reference for Class 2M

BG
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Was just leafing through the VLine Network Service Plan for a bit of light reading on a Sunday morning and I came across Class 2M track in the document below

https://corporate.vline.com.au/Network-Access/Network-service-plan

Does anyone know what the difference between Class 2 and Class 2 M is? I found a reference in an old document to Class 2U but I can't find the reference for Class 2M

BG
BrentonGolding
This track class intermediate track class between  Class 1 and Class 2 came about during the construction of the five RFR corridors in the early 2000's .

It basically is a slightly stronger Class 2 track allowing 140 kmh DMU operation on CWR 50 kg or 107lb rail on concrete or good condition wooden sleepers .

Within the RFR corridors the basic approach taken was to maximize the speed achievable within the existing reservation and earthworks/curvatureetc  by maximizing cant etc .  So on sections that the alignment and grades would achieve 160 kmh then Class 1 track was put in, where 130 kmh only could be achieved then Class 2 was retained (130kmh) , and where something in between could be achieved over a worthwhile distance then the Class - 2.5 was put in allowing 140 kmh .

Where the tracks are duplicated then on the Geelong line both are Class - 1 Corio to Down end of Werribee,  Bendigo is Class 1 only on the West track, and on Traralgon Class 1 only on the South track . (These were false economy measures and are a pain on a daily operational basis .) The other tracks on the dupliacted sections of bendigo & Traralgon are still Class - 2 allowing only 130kmh .

This sort of nonsense on railways is idiotic, imagine Vicroads duplicating the Western highway and having a different strength/standard of road from Melbourne & to Melbourne allowing different speeds .
  gippslander Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Gippsland, Vic
Any suggestion that Gippsland passengers should be turfed off at Pakenham (probably one of the bleakest and most grotty stations on the network) is just nonsense. It's a major VLP corridor serving a large population and the commuter service to Traralgon is comparable to Ballarat & Bendigo, with enormous growth in West Gippsland.
The Pakenham option would see the commuters abandon VLP - no one wants a change of train and another 30 minutes tacked on to the journey. And it would be particularly hard on travellers from distant off rail towns who hop on at Traralgon.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik

And I was screaming at my radio because the point that the poor caller was trying to make was that they have ALREADY spent the millions of $$$ on it for no result!

BG
It's unlikely Jon Faine or the PTV rep heard you screaming at your wireless...

M.
The Vinelander
Even if they could hear you:

They wouldn't listen
and
If they did listen they wouldn't understand
  cabidass Chief Train Controller

Doors that don't look down the entire length of the train might be a more welcome addition...

Did I lock it? Did I lock it? Does the lock work? Is the light broken #ToiletDoorAnxiety

You obviously haven't travelled in a while...all disability VLocity toilets have multiple verbal warnings about 'pressing the key button' to ensure privacy.

M.
The Vinelander

Settle down peeps. I was being funny. Haha. You know, jokeds...?

The doors make a 'click' noise. And the light comes on. But there really is a lot of trust involved.

My point was that with a door to the side, and a shaded window, it would be an extra level of protection 'just in case of ooops'.

But I do understand that regulations, dimensions, and ease of use makes achieving such a tad impractical.
  cabidass Chief Train Controller

I can't remember if I posted it (elsewhere) at the time, however there was a public consultation at Morwell station on the 8th of November about station upgrades.

It turned out that these upgrades were different to the broader Regional Rail upgrades (with platforms etc), and was instead focused on things like parking, access, and myki readers.

I was advised that both bodies were working together to ensure no work was done that was superfluous or superseded. Some stations will get toilet upgrades too.

Works to start Jan next year beginning at T'gon, then Moe, Traf and Morwell.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Interesting @cabidass we are getting carpark upgrades on the Bendigo line at the moment, Gisborne (east side former dirt carpark) completed a few months ago, Kyneton (extension of town side carpark} just finished and now Castlemaine (dirt carpark near Lions Club being surfaced this week by the looks and a new carpark being built on the Down side of the old Goods shed, I sort of presumed these works were part of the Revival.

BG
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
Some changes to the Ballarat Line upgrade announced today:
  • The second track to Wendouree will be rebuilt/reactivated and a second platform built there
  • The 3km duplication east of Warrenheip junction is no longer going ahead, with the Wendouree section taking it's place.
  • Duplication between Bacchus Marsh and Rowsley Station Road (seemingly past where the new stabling will be).


The Wendouree section will hopefully be useful, especially in the morning and afternoon peaks. Should mean that Ararat trains don't get delayed waiting for a path either. It's still not entirely clear whether the freight line will be reconnected at the up end to allow for passenger use, but I don't think it's likely now.

The way they've worded the Bacchus Marsh duplication information makes it sound as though the line will be duplicated, return to a single track for half a km, then Rowsley loop. Might just be something they haven't worded well.
  ab123 Chief Train Controller


The way they've worded the Bacchus Marsh duplication information makes it sound as though the line will be duplicated, return to a single track for half a km, then Rowsley loop. Might just be something they haven't worded well.
TOQ-1

Rowsley station Rd is essentially at the Up end of Rowlsey Loop
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
Rowsley station Rd is essentially at the Up end of Rowlsey Loop
ab123
In that case it might just be me misinterpreting what the line mileage measurements line up with on the diagrams on VicSig.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Some changes to the Ballarat Line upgrade announced today:
  • The second track to Wendouree will be rebuilt/reactivated and a second platform built there
  • The 3km duplication east of Warrenheip junction is no longer going ahead, with the Wendouree section taking it's place.
  • Duplication between Bacchus Marsh and Rowsley Station Road (seemingly past where the new stabling will be).


The Wendouree section will hopefully be useful, especially in the morning and afternoon peaks. Should mean that Ararat trains don't get delayed waiting for a path either. It's still not entirely clear whether the freight line will be reconnected at the up end to allow for passenger use, but I don't think it's likely now.

The way they've worded the Bacchus Marsh duplication information makes it sound as though the line will be duplicated, return to a single track for half a km, then Rowsley loop. Might just be something they haven't worded well.
TOQ-1
Re-duplicating the Wendouree line makes a lot of sense.  You would hope they install gauge convertable sleepers when they do....

Apparently the SG freight line is planned to be the centre track through Ballarat station.  Hopefully that's dual gauge.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Some changes to the Ballarat Line upgrade announced today:
  • The second track to Wendouree will be rebuilt/reactivated and a second platform built there
  • The 3km duplication east of Warrenheip junction is no longer going ahead, with the Wendouree section taking it's place.
  • Duplication between Bacchus Marsh and Rowsley Station Road (seemingly past where the new stabling will be).


The Wendouree section will hopefully be useful, especially in the morning and afternoon peaks. Should mean that Ararat trains don't get delayed waiting for a path either. It's still not entirely clear whether the freight line will be reconnected at the up end to allow for passenger use, but I don't think it's likely now.

The way they've worded the Bacchus Marsh duplication information makes it sound as though the line will be duplicated, return to a single track for half a km, then Rowsley loop. Might just be something they haven't worded well.
TOQ-1
Don't fall for the Governments  Spin and deliberate obfuscation here .  Effectively what is happening now is that 10 kms of duplicated bg track between Ballarat East & Warrenheip East is being replaced by a second platform at Wendouree, and 3 kms duplication at the Down end of Bacchus Marsh .

There is no mention of re instatement of the second bg track between Ballarat & Wendouree at all, rather a vague reference to duplicated track at Wendouree - which probably means the two tracks through two platforms .

What is needed at Wendouree is two bg refuge sidings immediately beyond the existing platform, not a second platform with all the associated COSTLY disability access issues . The need at Wendouree is to be able to run through an Ararat, and to originate/terminate closely spaced local trains there . That can all be done at much lesser cost still with the single platform, and two refuge sidings of 250m each on Down side of Wendouree .

In the medium this means status quo  beyond Melton with just crossing loops at  Rowsley (effectively useless and a white elephant already), Bank Box,  Ballan, Millbrook (between the 2 high viaducts) , and Ballarat station .

Again we cut the cloth to fit something that was yet again NOT costed properly in the first place, and end up probably with little effective improvement beyond Melton .

At least from this sorry lot we should be extending the duplication beyond Bacchus Marsh to incorporate the existing Rowsley Loop with a 100kmh moveable nose Y junction at the Down end; and restoring the second track between North Ballarat and Wendouree to give some more operational flexibility at the Ballarat end to absorb late running .

The existing Rowsley Loop is useless, and having a silly little bit of single track between it and the duplication into Bacchus Marsh would be even more ridiculous .

With the promised 40 minute Ballarat Off Peak service and the proposed single line to Wendouree with the only crossing point between Millbrook and Wendouree being Ballarat station , the thing will still involve crosses at Ballarat as it is impossible to do a return trip from Millbrook to Wendouree and back within 40 minutes allowing for a safe turnaround time at Wendouree .
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Some changes to the Ballarat Line upgrade announced today:
  • The second track to Wendouree will be rebuilt/reactivated and a second platform built there
  • The 3km duplication east of Warrenheip junction is no longer going ahead, with the Wendouree section taking it's place.
  • Duplication between Bacchus Marsh and Rowsley Station Road (seemingly past where the new stabling will be).


The Wendouree section will hopefully be useful, especially in the morning and afternoon peaks. Should mean that Ararat trains don't get delayed waiting for a path either. It's still not entirely clear whether the freight line will be reconnected at the up end to allow for passenger use, but I don't think it's likely now.

The way they've worded the Bacchus Marsh duplication information makes it sound as though the line will be duplicated, return to a single track for half a km, then Rowsley loop. Might just be something they haven't worded well.
Re-duplicating the Wendouree line makes a lot of sense.  You would hope they install gauge convertable sleepers when they do....

Apparently the SG freight line is planned to be the centre track through Ballarat station.  Hopefully that's dual gauge.
Carnot
Careful  Government spin doesnt actually say anything at all about re instating the second bg track between Ballarat and Wendouree . (Rather duplication AT Wendouree - meaning two broad gauge tracks at two bg platforms !!) . The MB would now appear to be a centre track through Ballarat station as sg only  (why dg not required for any bg usage ?) then linked into South Line up the hill to Warrenheip Loop , but potentially as sg only now . Truly a Claytons MB solution, and a Claytons Ballarat area bg upgrade .  As Fawlty would say -  "Typical !!!"
  Lockspike Deputy Commissioner

Careful  Government spin doesnt actually say anything at all about re instating the second bg track between Ballarat and Wendouree . (Rather duplication AT Wendouree - meaning two broad gauge tracks at two bg platforms !!) . The MB would now appear to be a centre track through Ballarat station as sg only  (why dg not required for any bg usage ?) then linked into South Line up the hill to Warrenheip Loop , but potentially as sg only now . Truly a Claytons MB solution, and a Claytons Ballarat area bg upgrade .  As Fawlty would say -  "Typical !!!"
kuldalai
While it seems double between Ballarat and Wendouree would be desirable for operational flexibility, and easy to do, the bottle neck would be trying to squeeze double track under the Armstrong St North overbridge. I know that's not a problem when the political will is there (easy, just throw money at it), but it could be influencing not double tracking.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Don't fall for the Governments  Spin and deliberate obfuscation here .  Effectively what is happening now is that 10 kms of duplicated bg track between Ballarat East & Warrenheip East is being replaced by a second platform at Wendouree, and 3 kms duplication at the Down end of Bacchus Marsh .

kuldalai
As pointed out before restoration of double track working between Warrenheip and Ballarat East (for Melbourne - Ballarat passenger trains) was never part of the Ballarat line upgrade !

The previous proposal was for 3 km's of duplication EAST of Warrenheip towards Dunsstown.

The South track (proposed to be gauge converted) from Warrenheip to Ballarat East would remain as the Independent goods line from Geelong.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Don't fall for the Governments  Spin and deliberate obfuscation here .  Effectively what is happening now is that 10 kms of duplicated bg track between Ballarat East & Warrenheip East is being replaced by a second platform at Wendouree, and 3 kms duplication at the Down end of Bacchus Marsh .
As pointed out before restoration of double track working between Warrenheip and Ballarat East (for Melbourne - Ballarat passenger trains) was never part of the Ballarat line upgrade !

The previous proposal was for 3 km's of duplication EAST of Warrenheip towards Dunsstown.

The South track (proposed to be gauge converted) from Warrenheip to Ballarat East would remain as the Independent goods line from Geelong.
Nightfire
Wrong. You need to follow progressively the sneaky little changes the Government makes in the hope that nobody notices .  It is a deliberate process of obfuscation in slow incremental  steps .

Original proposal before MB ever came up was to duplicate the South Line 3 kms from Warrenheip towards Dunnstown and have the Geelong bg line branch off the South line, with bi directional running on both tracks  Ballarat East to Warrenheip East .  Then around 6 months ago as MB started to emerge as an issue getting through Ballarat against a tide of pax trains then the reference to Ballarat works was altered to simply  3 kms duplication East of Warrenheip .  

Now we are spun that 3kms of duplication at the Down end of The Marsh will replace 3kms of duplication East of Warrenheip and all will be sweet .  Sneaky and deceptive as what is actually being  lost to bg pax is 10kms of duplication from Ballarat East to Warrenheip East  , for 3 kms at Down end of The Marsh - so 7 kms duplicated bg less . Great for MB sg but not so good for bg pax running .  And a second platform at massive extra cost at Wendouree that is not actually required at all , if we used an alternative solution of much lower cost .

Even now the multiplicity of Transport Bureaucracies cannot get it right, as their maps still show 3 kms of duplcation East of Warrenheip .  No body cares, nobody checks that things are consistent - or that they are all singing from the same page in the hymn book in harmony .    Hopeless .
  SamTheMan79 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Geelong
https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/getting-things-done-warrnambool-crossings-upgraded/

As all crossings are now upgraded to booms it will be interesting to see if V/Line start to run V/Locities to Warrnambool (albeit at 130kmh between Waurn Ponds to Warrnambool) from January 28th 2018.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

New Warrnambool timetable only shaves 6 minutes off the current timetable between Warrnambool and Geelong. It'll still be N Sets by the look of it, albeit at the old line speed.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Wrong. You need to follow progressively the sneaky little changes the Government makes in the hope that nobody notices .  It is a deliberate process of obfuscation in slow incremental  steps .

Original proposal before MB ever came up was to duplicate the South Line 3 kms from Warrenheip towards Dunnstown and have the Geelong bg line branch off the South line, with bi directional running on both tracks  Ballarat East to Warrenheip East .  Then around 6 months ago as MB started to emerge as an issue getting through Ballarat against a tide of pax trains then the reference to Ballarat works was altered to simply  3 kms duplication East of Warrenheip .  .
kuldalai
Going through the press releases when the upgrade was first announced, only 3 km's of duplication was mentioned of Warrenheip (first West of Warrenheip junction than East later on, spin spin spin)

There are reports about opposition to tree removal as behind the scratching of the proposed 3 km loop.

I can't find any reference about recommissioning double track between Warrenheip and Ballarat East (as bi directional running for Melbourne - Ballarat passenger trains)
This would have the spin of 10 or 13 km's of double track added to the Ballarat line, but only 3 km's was mooted.

As you point out In another thread, Up loaded freight trains would struggle to get a path through Ballarat and up the Warrenheip bank, If V/Line took over the South track for passenger train moments.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/getting-things-done-warrnambool-crossings-upgraded/

As all crossings are now upgraded to booms it will be interesting to see if V/Line start to run V/Locities to Warrnambool (albeit at 130kmh between Waurn Ponds to Warrnambool) from January 28th 2018.
SamTheMan79
Definitely not .  Any V/locities to Warrnambool will be a new Inter City version in 5 - 6 car fixed consists, potentially with stronger cabs like the Bombardier  Adelaide "sparks"  .  Also Premier indicated 2019 at earliest as  other things to be done first, new loop at Boorcan to replace Camperdown, All crossings upgraded to boom barriers allowing 130kmh on existing Class 2 track, plus upgraded remote signalling to replace Train Orders .

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