Where/how is the prototype Waratah?

 
  TrainLover222 Junior Train Controller

Location: ...And then all stations to Central
Hello,

I am here to inquire about the condition, status and whereabouts of the first Waratah train. Not A1, not A3, but the four-car pre-production test vehicle that was used to ensure the compatibility of the A sets with the Sydney network.

This train, in case you don’t know, was delivered in 2009 and entered service as a test train (it was not fitted with passenger amenities inside) in 2010.

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

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  simstrain Chief Commissioner

I think they are held in reserve at the auburn maintenance facility as spares.
  s3_gunzel Not a gunzel developer

Location: Western Sydney, AU
I think they are held in reserve at the auburn maintenance facility as spares.
simstrain

Not sure about the location of the driving trailers, but the two N cars are at Cardiff in various stages of disrepair with boards all over them. They look very sad.
  TrainLover222 Junior Train Controller

Location: ...And then all stations to Central
I think they are held in reserve at the auburn maintenance facility as spares.

Not sure about the location of the driving trailers, but the two N cars are at Cardiff in various stages of disrepair with boards all over them. They look very sad.
s3_gunzel
That's disappointing. I would imagine they would preserve it or maybe keep using it as a test train (although I knew that didn't seem to be a case). Maybe they could even consider fitting it out and putting the train into passenger service!
  TrainLover222 Junior Train Controller

Location: ...And then all stations to Central
I think they are held in reserve at the auburn maintenance facility as spares.
simstrain
I see. Essentially the same fate as the 4D test train from Melbourne...

Cheers
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

I think they are held in reserve at the auburn maintenance facility as spares.
I see. Essentially the same fate as the 4D test train from Melbourne...

Cheers
TrainLover222

No, spares as in if something was to happen and a carriage had to be written off then they were supposed to be replacements for said carriage.
  s3_gunzel Not a gunzel developer

Location: Western Sydney, AU
I would imagine they would preserve it
TrainLover222


"You can't save everything"
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
The most recent set types have one spare D car that can replace a regular D car that may be wrecked in a collision, a bit like the Glenbrook crash which lost a C car.
  TrainLover222 Junior Train Controller

Location: ...And then all stations to Central
No, spares as in if something was to happen and a carriage had to be written off then they were supposed to be replacements for said carriage.
simstrain
Oh, well that’s a bit better than, say, being in pieces!

Cheers
  M636C Minister for Railways

The most recent set types have one spare D car that can replace a regular D car that may be wrecked in a collision, a bit like the Glenbrook crash which lost a C car.
awsgc24
Although two spare D cars were built for the Oscar sets, these were included in a set at the end of construction.

The two prototype D cars ARE the spares for the Waratah sets.
As far as I know these are at Cardiff. Initially they were stripped and stored outside with the two N cars.
They were moved inside (I think) but I don't think they have been rebuilt.
The contract calls for two spare D cars but I think they will only be completed when a spare is needed.
They had all power equipment, bogies doors and air conditioning removed, but these could be replaced if the car was needed.

Peter
  s3_gunzel Not a gunzel developer

Location: Western Sydney, AU

They had all power equipment, bogies doors and air conditioning removed, but these could be replaced if the car was needed.
M636C


I'd think with all new stuff?
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

If anything was to happen now they would just order an extra 1 or 2 new B sets instead of worrying about the old prototype waratah.
  Clyde Goodwin2 Chief Train Controller

If anything was to happen now they would just order an extra 1 or 2 new B sets instead of worrying about the old prototype waratah.
simstrain
Wrong
They would retro fit the existing in good order bodyshells.
  TrainLover222 Junior Train Controller

Location: ...And then all stations to Central
If anything was to happen now they would just order an extra 1 or 2 new B sets instead of worrying about the old prototype waratah.
simstrain
Surely the prototype Waratah wouldn't differ much in design when compared to production Waratahs, right? From what I've seen they look the same
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
If anything was to happen now they would just order an extra 1 or 2 new B sets instead of worrying about the old prototype waratah.
Surely the prototype Waratah wouldn't differ much in design when compared to production Waratahs, right? From what I've seen they look the same
TrainLover222
Looks are only skin deep.

If it was purely for clearance testing then nothing internal was likely fitted for passengers and the cost to do so may equal a new train or even be more expensive. Plus retrofit any other changes made.

Same issue applied to Space Shuttle Enterprise, in the end despite supposed to be part of the operational fleet, it was simply too expensive to retrofit.

I'm sure if this train was of use, it would have been taken and completed by now.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

If anything was to happen now they would just order an extra 1 or 2 new B sets instead of worrying about the old prototype waratah.
Wrong
They would retro fit the existing in good order bodyshells.
Clyde Goodwin2

No you are wrong. These days it would be easier and just as cheap to write off the set and build a new one.
  s3_gunzel Not a gunzel developer

Location: Western Sydney, AU
If anything was to happen now they would just order an extra 1 or 2 new B sets instead of worrying about the old prototype waratah.
Wrong
They would retro fit the existing in good order bodyshells.

No you are wrong. These days it would be easier and just as cheap to write off the set and build a new one.
simstrain

How'd you figure that? One, two, three, even four cars is cheaper than writing off carriages that have nothing wrong with them and building a completely new set.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
If anything was to happen now they would just order an extra 1 or 2 new B sets instead of worrying about the old prototype waratah.
Wrong
They would retro fit the existing in good order bodyshells.

No you are wrong. These days it would be easier and just as cheap to write off the set and build a new one.

How'd you figure that? One, two, three, even four cars is cheaper than writing off carriages that have nothing wrong with them and building a completely new set.
s3_gunzel
Gunzel a few points of order

1) What do you actually know of the condition of the prototypes before being left to rot?
2) Do you know  if they were built to the same standards as the main production?
3) Do you know it will be cheaper to fit them out?
4) Do you know there is nothing wrong with them?

Airbus typically keep their prototypes, one of the two A380 prototypes retained by Airbus was used to trial the new A380 PLUS fit out. Neither plane will ever be sold to a customer. Boeing also retained its prototypes, again often used for testing during the life of the production and beyond.

While I agree the govt does at times have some questionable motives, do you think that they would basically scrap a perfectly good train when they are short of rolling stock? A 2 or 3 or 4 car Waratah could be used for Carlingford? Remember the recent press noise over the older non-AC stock?

I would strongly suggest that without any further evidence than " From what I've seen they look the same", you need to take others opinions and in some cases experience at face value and accept that these trains are economically not suited for final fit out and use in Sydney until you have actual data that proves otherwise.
  Clyde Goodwin2 Chief Train Controller

Oh yes trying to compare a TEST Aircraft with a Low hours Test train well done with that fail you do know they are tested completely differently and are not the same thing at all,Trains do not have a life counted in Airframe hours or pressurisation cycles and takeoff/landing stresses.

Please do explain to us how these Stainless Steel Bodyshell have been left to (your words) Rot away.
  s3_gunzel Not a gunzel developer

Location: Western Sydney, AU
Gunzel a few points of order

1) What do you actually know of the condition of the prototypes before being left to rot?


That it is there. I have no reason to say I know anything else about it.


2) Do you know  if they were built to the same standards as the main production?
3) Do you know it will be cheaper to fit them out?
4) Do you know there is nothing wrong with them?


You’ve misunderstood me.

@simstrain has basically said that in the event of a collision with a car at Vineyard, it would be cheaper to write off 7 cars that have nothing wrong with them and order a whole new B Set, this is what I am taking issue with.
  Colonel Leon Junior Train Controller

Location:
If anything was to happen now they would just order an extra 1 or 2 new B sets instead of worrying about the old prototype waratah.
Surely the prototype Waratah wouldn't differ much in design when compared to production Waratahs, right? From what I've seen they look the same
TrainLover222
I can understand the D cars being able to be used in the current A sets. I think there is a reason that the N cars can't be used as spares the A sets. Were they not fitted with different traction motors than the existing A sets. Here is a video of the prototype Waratah (all credits to STI11Q), and the traction motors sound nothing like the current ones.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOFmJTptCS4

They may be compatible, though. If anyone disagrees with me (incl. Clyde Goodwin2) then I'm very sorry...
  Clyde Goodwin2 Chief Train Controller

Oh wow the brand new traction motors sound different(in a lousy quality vlogger video) to those on in service A sets so they just must not be the same.

Seriously ? a brand new off the showroom floor Toyota Landcruiser sounds much different to a 1 year old in service Landcruiser too the difference is????
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

It is cheaper because the sets that don't need to be written off can then be used as spares for the existing fleet and adding an extra train or 2 to the new b set class adds to it's cost effectiveness.

S3. If a waratah has an accident at vineyard or one of the other level crossings along the richmond line. What makes you think only the D car will be damaged? What if something like wenty or either waterfall incident happened again. Look at how expensive A29 was to fix and that was just replacing the wiring and computers after A29 tried to become a boat.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Politically a nice new train is brag worthy to the press.
  Clyde Goodwin2 Chief Train Controller

It is cheaper because the sets that don't need to be written off can then be used as spares for the existing fleet and adding an extra train or 2 to the new b set class adds to it's cost effectiveness.

S3. If a waratah has an accident at vineyard or one of the other level crossings along the richmond line. What makes you think only the D car will be damaged? What if something like wenty or either waterfall incident happened again. Look at how expensive A29 was to fix and that was just replacing the wiring and computers after A29 tried to become a boat.
simstrain
So once again your calling for an extremely expensive solution from the public purse to a problem that does not even exist just to show how very knowledgeable you think you are on all rail topics,considering that the EXISTING 4 car body shells can be easily and cheaply be brought up to fleet standards using EXISTING spare components your idea again prooves that you are full of bull.

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