VR Wooden Bodied V type Carriage Whereabouts?

 
  ryleyrail Station Master

Grettings all,

After numerous searches, I have found VERY little on the internet and similar about the status of the wooden bodied v type carriages, therefore I have taken to Railpage to ask. First off,

Where are these carriages, are they in the hands of Steamrail Ballarat?

and

Why have they not seen mainline use in the last decade, where they 'impounded'. (Lack of a better term)

I am interested to find out as these carriages were present on tours in the late 90s/early 2000s, however have seemed to disappear since.

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  HUDS761 Station Staff

Location: Werribee
I believe they are stored in east block at Newport.
  ryleyrail Station Master

I believe they are stored in east block at Newport.
HUDS761
Why there though, and not allocated to a preservation group, considering that east block seems to just be a place to dump the stuff the big operators don't need?
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Who do you think they should be allocated too?

SRHC, 707 operations, VGR, MRPS all seem to have enough carriages to meet their requirements, or am I wrong?
  ryleyrail Station Master

Valid point, Valid point.

Just seems a bit of a shame that they don't see use, considering the obvious rarity of such rolling stock.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Trapped in a meeting with Rhonda and Karsten
To my knowledge there has been at least one unsuccessful attempt in the last couple of years to move the V cars out of Newport East Block. Circumstances have changed a fair bit since then though, so maybe the next attempt will be successful...
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
"these days" I assume it may be too expensive to accredit them to run mainline. If not mainline how to to move them to a off mainline operator.  They may require  extensive work, that costs money. And then whether the changes needed would wreck their heritage. And if taken elsewhere is there sifficiant protection for the carriages at that location to preserve them.

In this day and age for these old carriages  probally make it hard to decide.

But like many things happy to be proven wrong !

Regards,
David Head
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
After running maintenance such as brakes, wheels, bogies, drawgear and axleboxes etc these cars are no different than when they ran in traffic 50/60 odd years ago. As such they should be fit for transit as empty cars at low speed.

In my view they were dangerous then and they still are on the mainline but would be OK on branch lines at low speed.

Personally, I would not travel in L or V class cars or the XYZ (whatever) cars on a mainline. These sort of vehicles turn to matchwood too easily.

E and W class cars at below 80 km/h 'maybe' as they, at least, have auto couplers.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Valid point, Valid point.

Just seems a bit of a shame that they don't see use, considering the obvious rarity of such rolling stock.
ryleyrail
Some of the V Cars were supposed to go to the VGR back in 2016. Those mooted for the transfer were 32AV, 7BV, and 1AV. The talk at the time was that these would be run on special occasions only and it was hoped that the D3 would be the motive power as Steamrail and the VGR had entered into a joint venture agreement by this time.

I am not privy to why the transfer was never made but in the end the XYZ set made it to Maldon instead (by road IIRC) and these have been used to run "The Colonial Express" trains in conjunction with the National Trust plus at least one Members Special train that I was lucky enough to be on.

BG

***edit, just checked back through the newsletters, the XYZ cars were transferred to Castlemaine from SRHC via Toolamba, Echuca and Bendigo by rail behind T378 and 357 (how they got permission to do that is beyond me) and they were stored at Castlemaine awaiting accreditation. During the wait the VGR got special permission to transfer them empty cars by rail to Maldon where they were loaded onto trucks and taken to Newport for a Steamrail open day.***

I also wonder whether the problem with getting the V Cars out of East Block is to do with Screw Couplers and / or wheels? The XYZ set runs old Krupp? cast spoked wheels which had a nasty habit of failing in traffic. I doubt that permission would have been granted to run the V Cars on the suburban lines which they would have to do even to get from East Block to West Block these days as the yard limit for West Block is now just outside the fence and anything that runs past that point is controlled by Metro.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Trapped in a meeting with Rhonda and Karsten
...the XYZ cars were transferred to Castlemaine from SRHC via Toolamba, Echuca and Bendigo by rail behind T378 and 357 (how they got permission to do that is beyond me) and they were stored at Castlemaine awaiting accreditation.
BrentonGolding
SRHC was using Espee Rail Services accreditation for the transfer IIRC and they got a waiver from TSV/ONRSR because it was a one-off, low-speed empty carriages movement. As it now turns out, using Espee's accreditation was a one-off as well, as they are now defunct.

The V cars would be a great addition to the VGR's Colonial Express train, of which I had the privilege of riding on back in 2016. The XYZ cars are something that every VR fan should ride on at least once, even if only to gain some perspective on the true meaning of 'cattle class' travel!

I sincerely hope that the relevant parties can somehow coax the V cars out of East Block. I suspect that they'd be leaving on the back of a truck though.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Valid point, Valid point.

Just seems a bit of a shame that they don't see use, considering the obvious rarity of such rolling stock.
Some of the V Cars were supposed to go to the VGR back in 2016. Those mooted for the transfer were 32AV, 7BV, and 1AV. The talk at the time was that these would be run on special occasions only and it was hoped that the D3 would be the motive power as Steamrail and the VGR had entered into a joint venture agreement by this time.

I am not privy to why the transfer was never made but in the end the XYZ set made it to Maldon instead (by road IIRC) and these have been used to run "The Colonial Express" trains in conjunction with the National Trust plus at least one Members Special train that I was lucky enough to be on.

BG

***edit, just checked back through the newsletters, the XYZ cars were transferred to Castlemaine from SRHC via Toolamba, Echuca and Bendigo by rail behind T378 and 357 (how they got permission to do that is beyond me) and they were stored at Castlemaine awaiting accreditation. During the wait the VGR got special permission to transfer them empty cars by rail to Maldon where they were loaded onto trucks and taken to Newport for a Steamrail open day.***

I also wonder whether the problem with getting the V Cars out of East Block is to do with Screw Couplers and / or wheels? The XYZ set runs old Krupp? cast spoked wheels which had a nasty habit of failing in traffic. I doubt that permission would have been granted to run the V Cars on the suburban lines which they would have to do even to get from East Block to West Block these days as the yard limit for West Block is now just outside the fence and anything that runs past that point is controlled by Metro.
BrentonGolding
After a proper examination of brakes, wheels and axleboxes/bogies there should be no technical reason a shunt between East and West Blocks would not be possible providing that suitable screw/dual coupled locos are available.
The will to do so by the powers that be is another matter altogether.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
After a proper examination of brakes, wheels and axleboxes/bogies there should be no technical reason a shunt between East and West Blocks would not be possible providing that suitable screw/dual coupled locos are available.
The will to do so by the powers that be is another matter altogether.
YM-Mundrabilla
I don't think you'd find many people on RP who would disagree with you there YM but the fact remains that a lot of time and energy went in to getting "The Vintage Train" up to the VGR but it all came to nowt.

I am not privy to the reasons but I was privy to the hopes and aspirations that were expressed in the VGR newsletters of the time as well as around Maldon yard. In the end those hopes were dashed and i presume it was by bureaucracy as Steamrail were a willing partner to the venture.

BG
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Going back to the OP's lament about "wooden bodied" V cars not being out and about can some of the old hands explain what the differences between the V Cars and the other wooden bodied stock that followed are (apart from Screw couplers as already mentioned).

There are after all plenty of wooden bodied carriages still out and about in the form of AW / BW cars which are used on the VGR and other tourist railways. I was involved with shunting Melville at Newport before christmas and although i didn't take too much notice (and it has been extensively modified over the years) it didn't strike me as looking much different.

BG
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Going back to the OP's lament about "wooden bodied" V cars not being out and about can some of the old hands explain what the differences between the V Cars and the other wooden bodied stock that followed are (apart from Screw couplers as already mentioned).

There are after all plenty of wooden bodied carriages still out and about in the form of AW / BW cars which are used on the VGR and other tourist railways. I was involved with shunting Melville at Newport before christmas and although i didn't take too much notice (and it has been extensively modified over the years) it didn't strike me as looking much different.

BG
BrentonGolding
Stronger underframes on E and W cars (?). Auto couplers are more likely to keep vehicles upright and in line than screw couplers and buffers in the event of a derailment.
Either way with wooden cars if you come off the road big time you are likely to be matchwood.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

Going back to the OP's lament about "wooden bodied" V cars not being out and about can some of the old hands explain what the differences between the V Cars and the other wooden bodied stock that followed are (apart from Screw couplers as already mentioned).
BrentonGolding
One significant difference is that while the E and W cars have inwards opening doors at each end of the car, the V cars have outward opening doors for each compartment. They are corridor cars and have a number of doors along the corridor side as well - photographs suggest one opposite each compartment in the BVs, and four for the AVs.

As a railfan in the golden era of fan-trips (the 1960s) I preferred the E and W cars, as you could stand in the open doorway and get your fill of smoke, cinders and soot.
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
Back in the early 1960s, you didn't have to be on a rail fan trip to get a ride on an E or W car ....

There was a Uni revue about that time, which had a sketch about the delights of travelling in said cars:  "##We encourage constipation, while the train is in the station .......##"
  Valvegear The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Lad_Porter is quoting from the famous Train Song, sung to the tune of Dvorak's Humoresque. It starts:-

Passengers will please refrain
From flushing closets on the train
While standing in the yard or passing through.
Bums and hoboes underneath
Will cop it in the eyes and teeth,
And they won't like it; nor would you.

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