LDP Locos

 
  Z1NorthernProgress2110 Chief Commissioner

Location: Burnie, Tasmania
Yes 2150 and 2151 were in service till 2014 although 2150 did have a brief run in 2016.
The 2050 were in service in 2012.

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  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Should I think of the loco number as the rego number?  This changes all the time with cars, and in aircraft if they move country they change rego.

But it seems sometimes with the change of number the class designation changes too....
  a6et Minister for Railways

From a personal perspective, I cannot work out the modern system especially with LDP, 60's XRN's and the like, although XRN's I must think were assigned to the Xstrata coal working.  I can only think its to show/separate loco's into a set pool type of working, but often that seems at odds these days.
Locos of the same model but a different class usually have a different owner - or a minor difference in equipment. Is that simple enough? The only difference is that these days there are a lot more different loco owners!

LDPs (on Standard Gauge) are GT46C-ACe's built by Downer and were owned by their leasing company subsidiary Locomotive Demand Power. Progress Rail now owns the freight rail part of Downer's business, hence the new decals. The SSR class are exactly the same loco - they were built as LDPs - but they are owned by Southern Shorthaul Railroad.

The XRNs were purchased from UGL by Xstrata for their coal haulage operation. Xstrata (now Glencore) owned the locos and trainsets and contracted a train company (Freightliner) to crew and run the trains. Nowadays the locos, trainsets and the Glencore coal haulage contract are all owned by GWA, which also owns Freightliner.
LancedDendrite
Thanks for the information Lance appreciated.

Having just moved (6 months back) to the Maitland area, I see a fair round up of these engines, and they all leave old black steam loco's for dead with so many of them hard to distinquish as the paintwork is hard to pick what they are, suppose the constant working of coal trains and coal dust at the loaders and unloaders has a strong affect on them.
  GT46C-ACe Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
GWA hasn't bothered to renumber the XRNs and they already had the same locomotive model in their GWU Class. The only modern loco renumberings have been post sale from manufacturer.

The numbers are just the numbers the operator chooses, means absolutely nothing in the sense of type of commodity they service or where they run. If our system makes no sense then unraveling the US RRs numbering will do your head in.
  cuthbert Train Controller

Aurizon and SCT and LDP. An LDP will always be an LDP for the current owner. If they get sold, then the new owner can name them what they like or keep the class name. All changes cost big money. Just like corporate image, Aurizon would have paid for a new livery and SCT can decide to do that as well if they choose, but again, big money. Show me a positive business case that can support painting something for the owner you are renting from.

Obviously Aurizon and SCT are now arch enemies, so the Aurizon livery had to go and I'm guessing Downd/EDI or Progress rail had to remove it for the new renter!
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Aurizon and SCT and LDP. An LDP will always be an LDP for the current owner. If they get sold, then the new owner can name them what they like or keep the class name. All changes cost big money. Just like corporate image, Aurizon would have paid for a new livery and SCT can decide to do that as well if they choose, but again, big money. Show me a positive business case that can support painting something for the owner you are renting from.

Obviously Aurizon and SCT are now arch enemies, so the Aurizon livery had to go and I'm guessing Downd/EDI or Progress rail had to remove it for the new renter!
cuthbert

Aurzion and SCT are now no longer competitors.  As ive said before, Aurizon is a bulk rail company with no container traffic, and SCT is a container rail company with no bulk(1).

Id bet SCT will repaint the locos it buys to keep the fleet branding consistent.  If it buys them.




1. Though SCT also has extensive road operations and is more correctly termed a logistics company.
  seb2351 Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
The Specialised Bulk Rail division begs to differ that there is no bulk for SCT.
  NG Sulzers Deputy Commissioner

Location: Quorn
Sometimes because of subtle little differences, keeping batches of loco's in different classes, even when owned by the same operator, makes sense.
For example, from what I can say with first hand knowledge, GWA, LDP and SCT loco's are all GT46c_ACe. However the GWA is different to the LDP and SCT. GWA are fitted for and with DP and ECP, therefore have the ECP connecting cables at each end, with early modifications due to the damage from animal strikes. Inside the cab, at the drivers position for short end leading, there are two fire screens, SCT and LDP only have one screen in that position.

If, GWA were to have purchased any LDP, and were running trains requiring ECP and DP, they wouldn't reclassify the LDP as a GWA, becasuse without ECP and DP, they couldn't be rostered for those duties. If they were to look at a pool of, say seven GT46C-ACe loco's available for a train, where three are needed to be ECP and DP (like the Southern Iron trains were), you'd need to know out of the seven, which could do the job. If out of the seven, all seven were GWA class, but three ex LDP, you've got to be making sure the three you wanted are the GWA with ECP and DP. By keeping the classes separate, out of the seven GT46C-ACe, if we know three are GWA and the other four are LDP's, then it's pretty easy to then make sure the right loco configuration is rostered for the right job.
  M636C Minister for Railways

Sometimes because of subtle little differences, keeping batches of loco's in different classes, even when owned by the same operator, makes sense.
For example, from what I can say with first hand knowledge, GWA, LDP and SCT loco's are all GT46c_ACe. However the GWA is different to the LDP and SCT. GWA are fitted for and with DP and ECP, therefore have the ECP connecting cables at each end, with early modifications due to the damage from animal strikes. Inside the cab, at the drivers position for short end leading, there are two fire screens, SCT and LDP only have one screen in that position.

If, GWA were to have purchased any LDP, and were running trains requiring ECP and DP, they wouldn't reclassify the LDP as a GWA, becasuse without ECP and DP, they couldn't be rostered for those duties. If they were to look at a pool of, say seven GT46C-ACe loco's available for a train, where three are needed to be ECP and DP (like the Southern Iron trains were), you'd need to know out of the seven, which could do the job. If out of the seven, all seven were GWA class, but three ex LDP, you've got to be making sure the three you wanted are the GWA with ECP and DP. By keeping the classes separate, out of the seven GT46C-ACe, if we know three are GWA and the other four are LDP's, then it's pretty easy to then make sure the right loco configuration is rostered for the right job.
NG Sulzers
To take GWA as an example, the GWU and XRN classes are kept separate.
Although both have ECP control and cabling, the GWU lack the low speed control feature required for Hunter Valley coal traffic.
They can and do, of course operate as trailing units in coal traffic.
Strangely, PN have the same problem with the 93 class, which lack the low speed control of the 92 class.
Again 93 class are limited to trailing unit status in Hunter Valley coal trains.
It is understood that PN have leased three LDPs for Ardglen banking duties, where they will relieve TT class that can lead coal trains from this service. Aurizon are already using three CF class for this Ardglen banking service.
Aurizon are using 6000 class to lead Hunter coal trains, some of which were operating in WA on the Esperance ore trains, where they were replaced by 6020 class. Possibly the 6000 class already had the appropriate low speed control but the 6020 did not (although there may have been other considerations).

Peter
  cuthbert Train Controller

Aurizon is a bulk rail company with no container traffic
"james.au"


I could win the argument against that - Aurizon do still move Bulk products in "shipping" style containers, but I'm not so argumentative these days!

Stuff like steel balls for crushing ore, export wheat, ore for gold, plastic balls for plastic chairs and tables on your deck and a lot of other Bulk stuff goes in containers but we don't call them INTERMODAL - that is the difference.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Aurizon is a bulk rail company with no container traffic


I could win the argument against that - Aurizon do still move Bulk products in "shipping" style containers, but I'm not so argumentative these days!

Stuff like steel balls for crushing ore, export wheat, ore for gold, plastic balls for plastic chairs and tables on your deck and a lot of other Bulk stuff goes in containers but we don't call them INTERMODAL - that is the difference.
cuthbert
I specifically used the word container, not intermodal....
  2LaGrange Train Controller

Aurizon currently operate a container service from Carrington to Botany via Enfield terminal. However this contract ends in March and is up for tender.

When this contract expires that will be the end of Aurizons haulage of any containers or similar loading in NSW. They will only be using hoppers for coal and occasional ballast jobs. Their grain services in NSW seems to have ceased at the present time.

All the LDPs have found new homes on lease none have been purchased by SCT or PN. They are still owned by Progress Rail.
  a6et Minister for Railways

Aurizon currently operate a container service from Carrington to Botany via Enfield terminal. However this contract ends in March and is up for tender.

When this contract expires that will be the end of Aurizons haulage of any containers or similar loading in NSW. They will only be using hoppers for coal and occasional ballast jobs. Their grain services in NSW seems to have ceased at the present time.

All the LDPs have found new homes on lease none have been purchased by SCT or PN. They are still owned by Progress Rail.
2LaGrange
Going past UGL today, I noticed LDP 008 in a light grey undercoat over the whole body and cab area. Waiting for the top coat.
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
Going past UGL today, I noticed LDP 008 in a light grey undercoat over the whole body and cab area. Waiting for the top coat.
a6et
Not doubting you, but why would an LDP be at UGL rather than Progress Rail?
  a6et Minister for Railways

Going past UGL today, I noticed LDP 008 in a light grey undercoat over the whole body and cab area. Waiting for the top coat.
Not doubting you, but why would an LDP be at UGL rather than Progress Rail?
Graham4405
For paint shops?  It was in the outside of sheds next to the main northern line at Northern Line, also a couple of CFCLA engines in another shed.  The particular spot always has some loco's in there but I don't know the reason.

There is a sign on the side of building fronting Clyde Street with UGL on it.  Clearly visible and you can see it on Google earth and street view.
  M636C Minister for Railways

Going past UGL today, I noticed LDP 008 in a light grey undercoat over the whole body and cab area. Waiting for the top coat.
Not doubting you, but why would an LDP be at UGL rather than Progress Rail?
For paint shops?  It was in the outside of sheds next to the main northern line at Northern Line, also a couple of CFCLA engines in another shed.  The particular spot always has some loco's in there but I don't know the reason.

There is a sign on the side of building fronting Clyde Street with UGL on it.  Clearly visible and you can see it on Google earth and street view.
a6et
UGL certainly service EMD locomotives.
I think at least some of the Aurizon 5000 class have been repainted at Cardiff.
It might be a matter of the lowest quote for the work or the availability of the paint shop at the time.
Progress have been repainting the LDPs in Aurizon colours as quickly as possible.

Peter
  2LaGrange Train Controller

People seem to be getting confused here.

Progress rail - formerly Downer EDI is at Cardiff. They have a contract with Aurizon for major overhauls and repaints of 5000 class as they become due even though these are UGL built locomotives. Obviously a better price and would suggest Aurizon are not happy with UGL to take this step.

All the LDPs that were in Aurizon/QR Yellow/Black liveries are or will be re-painted white. There are 4 currently sitting at Cardiff already white.

UGLs main plant is accessed just to the west of Islington Jct on a short branch line. At the junction they have several sheds for servicing all types of locomotives and also have a wheel lathe that many operators use.

UGL are also currently re-painting all the XRN Locos into G&W Orange and Black.
  M636C Minister for Railways

All the LDPs that were in Aurizon/QR Yellow/Black liveries are or will be re-painted white. There are 4 currently sitting at Cardiff already white.

But LDP005, which was presumably white at some stage has been painted in Caterpillar yellow, white and grey and lettered for Progress Rail, at Port Augusta.

Perhaps 004 and 006-009 will have to wait until they get to Port Augusta, or maybe their paint will be completed at Cardiff or even Broadmeadow.

I've certainly seen SSR101 in the UGL service sheds. There is no reason for LDP008 not to go there if PN who are supposed to be leasing it wanted them to work on it.

Peter
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
But LDP005, which was presumably white at some stage has been painted in Caterpillar yellow, white and grey and lettered for Progress Rail, at Port Augusta.

Perhaps 004 and 006-009 will have to wait until they get to Port Augusta, or maybe their paint will be completed at Cardiff or even Broadmeadow.

Peter
M636C

I was told by someone who should know that only LDP005 will get the special treatment.

However, things can change.
  Junction box Chief Commissioner

Location: newy
People seem to be getting confused here.

Progress rail - formerly Downer EDI is at Cardiff. They have a contract with Aurizon for major overhauls and repaints of 5000 class as they become due even though these are UGL built locomotives. Obviously a better price and would suggest Aurizon are not happy with UGL to take this step.

All the LDPs that were in Aurizon/QR Yellow/Black liveries are or will be re-painted white. There are 4 currently sitting at Cardiff already white.

UGLs main plant is accessed just to the west of Islington Jct on a short branch line. At the junction they have several sheds for servicing all types of locomotives and also have a wheel lathe that many operators use.

UGL are also currently re-painting all the XRN Locos into G&W Orange and Black.
2LaGrange
Why Aurizon want custard and white loco's is anyone's guess.
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
Why Aurizon want custard and white loco's is anyone's guess.
Junction box
Huh??
  Junction box Chief Commissioner

Location: newy
People seem to be getting confused here.

Progress rail - formerly Downer EDI is at Cardiff. They have a contract with Aurizon for major overhauls and repaints of 5000 class as they become due even though these are UGL built locomotives. Obviously a better price and would suggest Aurizon are not happy with UGL to take this step.

All the LDPs that were in Aurizon/QR Yellow/Black liveries are or will be re-painted white. There are 4 currently sitting at Cardiff already white.

UGLs main plant is accessed just to the west of Islington Jct on a short branch line. At the junction they have several sheds for servicing all types of locomotives and also have a wheel lathe that many operators use.

UGL are also currently re-painting all the XRN Locos into G&W Orange and Black.
Why Aurizon want custard and white loco's is anyone's guess.
Junction box
Well it says Aurizon want LDP white paint jobs and the 5000 are getting a new coat of custard, both colors are crap for diesel workings.
  fzr560 Chief Train Controller

People seem to be getting confused here.

Progress rail - formerly Downer EDI is at Cardiff. They have a contract with Aurizon for major overhauls and repaints of 5000 class as they become due even though these are UGL built locomotives. Obviously a better price and would suggest Aurizon are not happy with UGL to take this step.

All the LDPs that were in Aurizon/QR Yellow/Black liveries are or will be re-painted white. There are 4 currently sitting at Cardiff already white.

UGLs main plant is accessed just to the west of Islington Jct on a short branch line. At the junction they have several sheds for servicing all types of locomotives and also have a wheel lathe that many operators use.

UGL are also currently re-painting all the XRN Locos into G&W Orange and Black.
Why Aurizon want custard and white loco's is anyone's guess.
Well it says Aurizon want LDP white paint jobs and the 5000 are getting a new coat of custard, both colors are crap for diesel workings.
Junction box
Huh? again.
  2LaGrange Train Controller

Junction Box. It may pay to actually read back through this thread before commenting.

Aurizon have Nothing to do with LDP Locos anymore.

The lease has expired and the 9 LDP Locos have been returned to their owner Progress Rail who have in turn leased them to SCT and PN. That’s why the LDPs have been repainted to remove any Aurizon logos.
  Junction box Chief Commissioner

Location: newy
Ok sorry, still hate Aurizon custard and who paints loco's white?

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