Premier Dan announces Western Distributor off Westgate AND a new tunnel

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 30 Apr 2015 19:55
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Entire project is a complete waste of taxpayers money (and yes we have been spending money to try and get this up) and only benefits Transurban.  Is terrible for the environment and is a project with little or no payback and may even be worse than East West Link which was bad.

This project ignores what is really required which is an efficient rail network connection the port like Sydney and Adelaide have.
I believe the word "Rent-seeker" best describes Transurban.  "Gigantic Traffic Sewer" best describes the project outcome.
Carnot

Could not agree more a dog of a project.

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  Carnot Chief Commissioner

And this dog of a project has just been green-lighted by the planning minister.  

I suppose they're planning to build a traffic-sewer to line the pockets of the rent-seekers.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I wrote a detailed email to Richard Wynne and Received a response.  Let me find it later today and post.
  stooge spark Junior Train Controller

Are we just gonna end up with an endless cycle of road proposals? If Libs get in next election, will they stop funding this road and fund a Swan hill freeway instead?
  Carnot Chief Commissioner
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Well it looks like the LNP are going to try to kill Western Distributor:

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/coalition-flags-plan-to-kill-west-gate-tunnel-project-in-parliament-20171208-h01l4o.html
Carnot
Playing politics. It has become a choice of Western Distributor or East-West Link.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Well it looks like the LNP are going to try to kill Western Distributor:

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/coalition-flags-plan-to-kill-west-gate-tunnel-project-in-parliament-20171208-h01l4o.html
Carnot

This is a shocking project.  No one is building roads of this size into what is effectively "downtown" city areas.  Those days are over and will not return.  Clearly Andrews was influenced by Transurban one of the key reasons he has not provided any real funding for port rail access besides the port being in desperate need of rail access.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Please stop referring to the Victorian Coalition as the LNP. The LNP is a Queensland party which was formed when the Liberal and National Parties in that state decided to merge in 2008.

Federally and in Victoria a Liberal / National Coalition government is formed by 2 separate parties, the Liberal Party of Australia and the National Party. They both field candidates in many electorates and this can make it an uneasy coalition at times.

These are sometimes referred to as LNC (Liberal National Coalition) governments but more often are simply known as Coalition Governments.

BG
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
The project is really only about trucks and the port of Melbourne. The amount of additional carbon emissions into the air for this project will be shameful.

The answer is a rail yard in the west and the east with trains shuttling containers from the yards. Tottenham could be used in the west for marshalling.

New intermodal terminal required in the east  

More trucks to the port means more trucks on highways means more pollution and more road congestion.

The government has rocks in their head.
  HardWorkingMan Chief Commissioner

Location: Echuca
In most cases you will still need trucks to get to the final destination as a train with 1 or 2 containers actually uses more fuel than a truck with a similarly small (by rail standards) load.  Then you have at least one or 2 lots of extra handling (either container to truck or container to stack to truck) which also add emissions.
Trucks are moving 42 tonnes of payload for less fuel then they used to move 9 tonnes of payload back in the 1950's when the comparison was done between an already moving train and  stop-start truck  (on the basis that the train would not be stuck in traffic)
Given that trucks also produce less emissions now then when the original study was done it may be time for a new comparison to be done.  After all how many Euro 4, 5 or 6 compliant locos are there in Australia.

I am not against rail just sick of people quoting decades old data as current information
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

The latest on the utter embarrassment that is Dictator Dan's Great Big Expensive Traffic Sewer That Benefits Tax-Rorter and Rent-seeker 'Transurban':
http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/vic-motorists-to-pay-tolls-until-2045/news-story/798fbe4f31bb4d738eb5c57c2c42cfdd
  MetroFemme Chief Train Controller

Now believe this project is dead and with the upper house getting to the point of killing it I would like to see the documents made public so we can really see who is up who and why.

This project will just clog the city. Criminal.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Now believe this project is dead and with the upper house getting to the point of killing it I would like to see the documents made public so we can really see who is up who and why.

This project will just clog the city. Criminal.
MetroFemme
Nearly everyone wishes it was dead, but Transurban might pocket billions in the wash-up.  This makes me furious:
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/taxpayers-could-be-slugged-1-8b-if-west-gate-tunnel-blocked-analyst-20180203-p4yzct.html
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
It could be argued Daniel Andrews went to the Victorian polls on fixing public transport.  Has this occurred?

If you remove the level cross works which studies have recently shown has delivered a minimal impact to road users in the vicinity of 1 minute saving in time. The investment on a $ only basis is marginal at best.  You would need to add safety and other aspects.  The massive programme which is over budget also promised to deliver more trains as gates would not be down.  Has this occurred?

Of the large number of outages and service problems which occur on a daily basis across the metro network have any of these been addressed in the past 3 years?

Have the V/line issues promised to be fixed still around?

is freight still facing issues on the Victoria Network?

Are we delivering more trains more often on the V/Line network?

Instead of addressing all the issues on a day to day basis, Daniel Andrews instead has decided to embark on a series of massive toll road projects which will not deliver value for money and which are a solution looking for a problem.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

It could be argued Daniel Andrews went to the Victorian polls on fixing public transport.  Has this occurred?

If you remove the level cross works which studies have recently shown has delivered a minimal impact to road users in the vicinity of 1 minute saving in time. The investment on a $ only basis is marginal at best.  You would need to add safety and other aspects.  The massive programme which is over budget also promised to deliver more trains as gates would not be down.  Has this occurred?

Of the large number of outages and service problems which occur on a daily basis across the metro network have any of these been addressed in the past 3 years?

Have the V/line issues promised to be fixed still around?

is freight still facing issues on the Victoria Network?

Are we delivering more trains more often on the V/Line network?

Instead of addressing all the issues on a day to day basis, Daniel Andrews instead has decided to embark on a series of massive toll road projects which will not deliver value for money and which are a solution looking for a problem.
bevans
He made some important commitments to PT, but I wonder if much of that is going to be undone with the massive $$$ being spent on toll-roads which are in total contradiction to good urban planning and economics.

Sad.
  wobert Deputy Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
So a city of 4.5 million people, and growing at about 100,000 a year has a port smack bang in the middle of it. So all the freight going in or out has to find its way through ever increasing built up areas to get to where its required.So in 5 years time when this multi billion dollar project is completed and the footprint of the city has increased by 10%, another multi billion dollar project will be required, and on and on it goes.

Wouldn't it be cheaper in the long term to expand another port or build a new port somewhere else, a long way from the metropolitan area?
Not all freight emanates  or terminates in Melbourne.

Just a thought.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

So a city of 4.5 million people, and growing at about 100,000 a year has a port smack bang in the middle of it. So all the freight going in or out has to find its way through ever increasing built up areas to get to where its required.So in 5 years time when this multi billion dollar project is completed and the footprint of the city has increased by 10%, another multi billion dollar project will be required, and on and on it goes.

Wouldn't it be cheaper in the long term to expand another port or build a new port somewhere else, a long way from the metropolitan area?
Not all freight emanates  or terminates in Melbourne.

Just a thought.
wobert
Bay West is already being planned.  But if it goes ahead Transurban would probably get compensated for loss of traffic.  They have our Governments bent over a barrel.
  wobert Deputy Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Is Bay West far enough away? The present growth of Melbourne is phenonon   huge.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
So a city of 4.5 million people, and growing at about 100,000 a year has a port smack bang in the middle of it. So all the freight going in or out has to find its way through ever increasing built up areas to get to where its required.So in 5 years time when this multi billion dollar project is completed and the footprint of the city has increased by 10%, another multi billion dollar project will be required, and on and on it goes.

Wouldn't it be cheaper in the long term to expand another port or build a new port somewhere else, a long way from the metropolitan area?
Not all freight emanates  or terminates in Melbourne.

Just a thought.
wobert
There was a study on trip trains from the port/s to Somerton, Truganinna and Dandenong somewhere all intended to reduce road traffic. It won't happen of course as we are incapable of servicing the PoM (Port of Melbourne) effectively by rail now. Webb Dock, of course, is another sad story.
  wobert Deputy Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
How these options are stymied,lobbyists and so forth,really is borderline corruption.
  VicRailNews Station Master

There was a study on trip trains from the port/s to Somerton, Truganinna and Dandenong somewhere all intended to reduce road traffic. It won't happen of course as we are incapable of servicing the PoM (Port of Melbourne) effectively by rail now. Webb Dock, of course, is another sad story.
YM-Mundrabilla

has not happened because of corruption and cosy relationships with Transurban.  Could you image the westgate tunnel business case as bad as it already is being wounded more by using trains?
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
  VicRailNews Station Master

I believe the word "Rent-seeker" best describes Transurban.  "Gigantic Traffic Sewer" best describes the project outcome.
Carnot

What a crap project this is and no one in their right mind would support it.  We do not need it.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Getting interesting now in Parliament with the Libs wanting an audit of Transurban's profits on Citylink:
https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/follow-the-money-liberals-want-to-know-where-citylink-tolls-go-20180214-p4z0b4.html

And the State Government's pathetic response (which demonstrates how corrupt they are):


Transparency is essential, and yet all we hear is: "Nothing to see, carry on".
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Becareful about what they wish for, the liberal party I believe is still a shareholder.

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