Austrains site updated

 
  gw0071 Deputy Commissioner

How do outcomes like this occur in this marketplace? Less features - same price. This equates to a price rise

Not that I believe JE would have opted for this result (I think...)

On closer inspection it'd be quite difficult to pick power off the plastic spoke insert wheels

Why were they even spoked in the first place?

I'll stop now

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  lkernan Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
How do outcomes like this occur in this marketplace? Less features - same price. This equates to a price rise


Why were they even spoked in the first place?
gw0071

1st point, My guess factory manufacturing price rises meant that something had to go to keep the price down.

The spoked wheels: As above, they were probably shared with something else in production at the same time.
  a6et Minister for Railways

How do outcomes like this occur in this marketplace? Less features - same price. This equates to a price rise


Why were they even spoked in the first place?

1st point, My guess factory manufacturing price rises meant that something had to go to keep the price down.

The spoked wheels: As above, they were probably shared with something else in production at the same time.
lkernan
The FS/BS cars had the worst set of bogies and wheels along with the lighting pick ups that I have experienced on any model, no matter about the actual lighting aspect of them, they simply were not free rolling vehicles, many have tried to fix the problem with removing the picks and various other fixes usually with mixed results at best.

The idea and concept was good but simply did not work, I believe for several reasons.  Primary reason was/is the soft full width metal pick ups along each inside of the bogie frames that incorporated the journal for the axle pin points to pick up the power, the journal was essentially a different female shape in that it was deepish and rounded, whereas the pin points were sharp angles and flopped inside the journal, didn't help that the axles were basically short as well, especially if you tried to force the journals into the actual bogie sides either, as it added to sloppy play.

The bogies had molded in brake shoes on the outside and inside, meaning the sloppy movement had the wheels touching the shoes on both rear side of the wheels, removing them eased the problem a bit. Removing the metal contact strip meant the whole wheel sets were too short and the axles would not go into the journals, I tried fitting some brass top hats but they were incompatible owing to the different angles of the top hat to that of the axle pin points.

Eventually I purchased replacements from Austrains which were said to be the fixed ones, but they were exactly the same as the originals, the next step was that I purchased a new set from Casula that are in their RUB sets, which I was able to get two working carriages going using those. The problem in using them is that the pinion where you screw the bogie into the underbody is different, I have had to fit extra washers to hold the bogies down, and now they roll exceptionally well but no lights. One carriage though I have not been able to get to work.

Thing with all of this is that if you have straight and basically  level track, they will roll freely, when on curves and/or grades you may or will have problems, My layout has only two main full length sections along with two other siding/station areas that are leve and straigh, the rest has curves and grades.   Of interest though is that the Austrains Suburban/cowboy cars had different picks up at least on my CCA car, and it was great.

The way the loose fit bogie frame set up was, to me is doomed for failure, had a smaller bar and axle pick up like the top hats been molded into the frame with proper fitting wheel sets been made, I believe would have made a huge difference to these models, in the operating sense anyway.
  gw0071 Deputy Commissioner

Comprehensive response, thank you a6et
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
Word on the street is a limited range of the C30's will be available to purchase at the Forrestville exhibition this weekend, with the full range expected to arrive in May.
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
Austrains have released pre-order forms for their C30T's. Expected delivery is December 2018 (by contrast the C30's arriving now & in May were due in March 2017 so mid/late 2019 is probably the realistic timeframe for 30T's).
pre-order price $770 (no sound) & $865 (sound), no mention of after delivery pricing. 17 locos to choose from with a variety of saturated & superheated with 3 styles of smokebox. 6 come with 6 wheel tenders, 11 with bogie tender. Most locos unlined black with headlights, 3028 offered in blue, 3144 in green.
  c3526blue Deputy Commissioner

Location: in the cuckoos nest
Austrains have released pre-order forms for their C30T's. Expected delivery is December 2018 (by contrast the C30's arriving now & in May were due in March 2017 so mid/late 2019 is probably the realistic timeframe for 30T's).
pre-order price $770 (no sound) & $865 (sound), no mention of after delivery pricing. 17 locos to choose from with a variety of saturated & superheated with 3 styles of smokebox. 6 come with 6 wheel tenders, 11 with bogie tender. Most locos unlined black with headlights, 3028 offered in blue, 3144 in green.
Poath Junction
................ nothing on the website.  So I assume the forms are available at the Austrain's Stand at Forestville.  Am I right?

Happy guessing,

John
  a6et Minister for Railways

Austrains have released pre-order forms for their C30T's. Expected delivery is December 2018 (by contrast the C30's arriving now & in May were due in March 2017 so mid/late 2019 is probably the realistic timeframe for 30T's).
pre-order price $770 (no sound) & $865 (sound), no mention of after delivery pricing. 17 locos to choose from with a variety of saturated & superheated with 3 styles of smokebox. 6 come with 6 wheel tenders, 11 with bogie tender. Most locos unlined black with headlights, 3028 offered in blue, 3144 in green.
Poath Junction
Well it prices me out of one, and likely a fair few others.
  Jeff3801 Beginner

Me to, at $770 for pr-order I hate to guess what the after arrival price might be & keeping in mind Ixion is selling their 32 for $495, $770 seems somewhat excessive.
  c3526blue Deputy Commissioner

Location: in the cuckoos nest
Austrains have released pre-order forms for their C30T's. Expected delivery is December 2018 (by contrast the C30's arriving now & in May were due in March 2017 so mid/late 2019 is probably the realistic timeframe for 30T's).
pre-order price $770 (no sound) & $865 (sound), no mention of after delivery pricing. 17 locos to choose from with a variety of saturated & superheated with 3 styles of smokebox. 6 come with 6 wheel tenders, 11 with bogie tender. Most locos unlined black with headlights, 3028 offered in blue, 3144 in green.
................ nothing on the website.  So I assume the forms are available at the Austrain's Stand at Forestville.  Am I right?

Happy guessing,

John
c3526blue
Yes, I was right, an order form for the C30T was included with the pre-ordered C30 I picked up at Forestville (one to go).  

The ones available were all NOT fitted with a headlight.  Mine was 3085, others included 3025, 3013 and (I think 3034, 3130) for a total of 5 available at this time.  I did not record the numbers and am going from memory so E&OE.  The lit versions are to come in May and it is likely that some or all of the missing locos will have lights fitted. Price is now $595.00.

Anyone (PJ?) who can fill in the missing details lit/not lit please do so.

Happy tanking,

John
  catchpoint Assistant Commissioner

Location: At the end of a loop
Another funnel to be replaced.......

But just the funnel this time around, no replacement dome has been offered as yet so it must have passed muster...

Interesting to note that the importer was already well aware of the joint in the funnel potential problem and offered the pre-production engineering sample smoke box to the third party to create their replacement in advance.

Regards,

Catchpoint
  a6et Minister for Railways

Another funnel to be replaced.......

But just the funnel this time around, no replacement dome has been offered as yet so it must have passed muster...

Interesting to note that the importer was already well aware of the joint in the funnel potential problem and offered the pre-production engineering sample smoke box to the third party to create their replacement in advance.

Regards,

Catchpoint
catchpoint
All this with the advertising blurbs of design skills and accuracy?
  catchpoint Assistant Commissioner

Location: At the end of a loop
I was actually expecting this loco to be far more expensive. Thank you so much for coming under budget JE, it is entrepeurs like your good self who perpetuate this noble hobby and in turn make it so accessible to the middle masses
gw0071

Coming in under Budget? What budget?

Was the proposed 30T price announced previously? Nothing appears on the Austrains website (willing to stand corrected)

The other show was suggesting a $460 price for a 30T before they went belly up and they were not doing a C30 with the possibility of sharing parts of the tooling

https://web.archive.org/web/20151229162505/http://www.shrike-models.com:80/414126252

Sure history may show that that price may have been unrealistic at the time.......and that there was a whole lot of something else going on

but i digress.

Regards,

Catchpoint
  a6et Minister for Railways

I was actually expecting this loco to be far more expensive. Thank you so much for coming under budget JE, it is entrepeurs like your good self who perpetuate this noble hobby and in turn make it so accessible to the middle masses

Coming in under Budget? What budget?

Was the proposed 30T price announced previously? Nothing appears on the Austrains website (willing to stand corrected)

The other show was suggesting a $460 price for a 30T before they went belly up and they were not doing a C30 with the possibility of sharing parts of the tooling

https://web.archive.org/web/20151229162505/http://www.shrike-models.com:80/414126252

Sure history may show that that price may have been unrealistic at the time.......and that there was a whole lot of something else going on

but i digress.

Regards,

Catchpoint
catchpoint
Thing is that this sets a new price point, and when Austrains announced, and yes the owner did say he would produce them and offered the same price as the Shrike model, to those who had been caught out in that drama, and had could prove they had a refund of the money from Shrike, that never happened as found and promised on the other co-op group, at which point Austrains continued to say the 30T would be done and to the top standard that the brand had delivered over the years.

At that point lets not forget that Ixion had said they would do the 30T but wanted a bit extra, but it would come after the 32cl, and at a point where the 32cl had made enough to cover that models tooling costs etc. When Austrains said they would be doing the 30T, Ixion pulled the plug on their model, which is interesting as the tooling for the 30T had been completed and just ready for production, some sparrow in the tree said that there had been a few of them done as test models to the standard shown at the last Liverpool exh when that was the last exh where the Shrike owner was seen.

Austrains then indicated on their web site that they had never said they were actually going to do a 30T, but the proprietor was still promoting it to those who asked.

The Ixion 32cl rerun is interesting in that it is now $100.00 less than the original run, also they have reduced the price by the same amount on the remaining models in the first run. that is they are now going for $495.00 that's $300.00 below the Austrains pre delivery price.
  DJPeters Assistant Commissioner

Me to, at $770 for pr-order I hate to guess what the after arrival price might be & keeping in mind Ixion is selling their 32 for $495, $770 seems somewhat excessive.
Jeff3801
Orient Express are doing the SAR F class tank locomotive and asking $550 per loco so maybe the $770 being asked is a bit excessive. The F class engineering model I have seen and it looks excellent as well.  Just saying though!
  NSWRcars Chief Train Controller

The Ixion 32cl rerun is interesting in that it is now $100.00 less than the original run, also they have reduced the price by the same amount on the remaining models in the first run. that is they are now going for $495.00 that's $300.00 below the Austrains pre delivery price.
a6et
The prices seem fairly closely aligned to other recent RTR steam from Eureka and Southern Rail, perhaps just a little dearer.

Given the shortcomings of the Ixion 32, it's no wonder that loco’s price had to be dropped.

My question to those who’ve bought a C30, how does this loco stack up? Worth it?
  FirstStopCentral Chief Train Controller

Me to, at $770 for pr-order I hate to guess what the after arrival price might be & keeping in mind Ixion is selling their 32 for $495, $770 seems somewhat excessive.
Orient Express are doing the SAR F class tank locomotive and asking $550 per loco so maybe the $770 being asked is a bit excessive. The F class engineering model I have seen and it looks excellent as well.  Just saying though!
DJPeters
The pre-release price for the C30 Tank loco was $550 and is now $595.

The $770 is the price of the C30T Tender loco, get your facts straight before criticizing...

Only fair that the tender loco should be dearer.

Paul
  a6et Minister for Railways

Me to, at $770 for pr-order I hate to guess what the after arrival price might be & keeping in mind Ixion is selling their 32 for $495, $770 seems somewhat excessive.
Orient Express are doing the SAR F class tank locomotive and asking $550 per loco so maybe the $770 being asked is a bit excessive. The F class engineering model I have seen and it looks excellent as well.  Just saying though!
The pre-release price for the C30 Tank loco was $550 and is now $595.

The $770 is the price of the C30T Tender loco, get your facts straight before criticizing...

Only fair that the tender loco should be dearer.

Paul
FirstStopCentral
Paul, while the tender does add costs, if I understand things correctly there are a fair amount of common items on the 30T that would help with reduced costs. Depending on how the frame and boiler is constructed on the tanker, they can also be used, & was something that JE had pointed out to a modelling friend of mine.

He could also, work with another company and use his 3650 gallon tender, that would save a degree of money as well.  All up it would depend on how many alternative 6 wheel tenders he would produce.  Another aspect to consider is whether or not the owner of Austrains is going to retire or continue to make new models. The answer to that is an unknown in most respects as he has been retiring now for x number of years. So I would see him continuing on and making models while he can make money,
  c3526blue Deputy Commissioner

Location: in the cuckoos nest
...............................

My question to those who’ve bought a C30, how does this loco stack up? Worth it?
NSWRcars
Hello,

Here is a quick report on my C30 Class number 3085.

The loco comes in the usual Austrains orange box.  The loco is wrapped in a plastic sheet housed snugly in a white polystyrene cradle, with some dark foam pieces to hold the boiler securely and to retain some accessories.

The loco is a tight fit and care needs to be taken when removing it from the foam cradle.  The accessories are: -

  1. A quite large and heavy strangely shaped spanner which I think is for tightening the connecting and coupling rod screws.
  2. A plastic bag containing 4 wheelsets to replace the ones fitted to the front and rear bogies.  Probably these are a larger diameter for those who have the luxury of operating on large radius curves.

Upon weighing the loco I was surprised to find that it weighs exactly 200g (about 100g less than the SRM 10 Class).  Included with the loco, but not in the box, is a double sided glossy A4 sheet.  On one side is a set of instructions and on the other side is an exploded drawing of the loco components.

Out of the box the loco looks to be a good representation of a C30 tank engine.  My model, as one of the early arrivals comes without any lighting.  It is fitted with the grated bunker and would represent the loco as in service in the 1960's.  Interestingly I understand 3085 was the last C30 tank to operate on the NSWGR.

First operation was quite smooth, but a little bit noisier than I had expected.  The wheel tyres are claimed to be stainless steel and this gives a very shiny appearance to the wheel rims.  The wheels appear to be Code 100, but I have not measured them.  There are truly pickups on all wheels/axles on this loco, noticeably with phosphor bronze wipers on the front and rear bogie axles which appear to have a centre isolating piece.  This should give the loco almost faultless electrical pickup.

The first brief operating session included some variable speed running in both directions and a quick load trial on the club layout.  The loco was able to haul 10 loaded TrainOrama (Hi-Rail) BCH hoppers plus a PHG up a nominal 1:50 grade chimney first, or 11 hoppers plus PHG bunker first.  I will be interested to see how it handles a rake of Austrains end-platform cars.  

Operation on DC was almost faultless, and it will be interesting to see how one performs after fitting DCC and sound.  It is claimed that there is space in the bunker and cab for a DCC chip and speaker.  Anyone want to have a go?

Overall at this early stage I would say that the loco is good value at $550 pre-order and $595 retail.

Happy running-in,

John
  NSWRcars Chief Train Controller

First operation was quite smooth, but a little bit noisier than I had expected.  The wheel tyres are claimed to be stainless steel and this gives a very shiny appearance to the wheel rims.  The wheels appear to be Code 100, but I have not measured them.  There are truly pickups on all wheels/axles on this loco, noticeably with phosphor bronze wipers on the front and rear bogie axles which appear to have a centre isolating piece.  This should give the loco almost faultless electrical pickup.
c3526blue
Thank you for the report.



Regarding electrical pickups, are the bogies wired to the locomotive, and how is this done? In the case of the Southern Rail 10 class there are double sided pickups fitted to the pony trucks, but they are not wired to the loco, giving electrical pickup on the drivers only.
  a6et Minister for Railways

Thanks for the report John.
  Roachie Chief Commissioner

Location: Kadina SA (formerly NSW)


Regarding electrical pickups, are the bogies wired to the locomotive, and how is this done? In the case of the Southern Rail 10 class there are double sided pickups fitted to the pony trucks, but they are not wired to the loco, giving electrical pickup on the drivers only.
NSWRcars
I don't understand why they'd put pick-ups on the pony trucks which serve no purpose?????

Roachie
  M636C Minister for Railways



Regarding electrical pickups, are the bogies wired to the locomotive, and how is this done? In the case of the Southern Rail 10 class there are double sided pickups fitted to the pony trucks, but they are not wired to the loco, giving electrical pickup on the drivers only.
I don't understand why they'd put pick-ups on the pony trucks which serve no purpose?????

Roachie
Roachie
Could they act as centering springs?

Peter
  NSWRcars Chief Train Controller



Regarding electrical pickups, are the bogies wired to the locomotive, and how is this done? In the case of the Southern Rail 10 class there are double sided pickups fitted to the pony trucks, but they are not wired to the loco, giving electrical pickup on the drivers only.
I don't understand why they'd put pick-ups on the pony trucks which serve no purpose?????

Roachie
Could they act as centering springs?

Peter
M636C
I don’t know why the SRM 10 class bogie pickups were not wired, perhaps it was decided that a connection to the loco would interfere with ride and tracking of the truck? The pickups are there, from both sides, with a split axle, but no electrical connection to the loco. They might act as suspension but definitely not as centering springs. Anyway, this is the Austrains thread and I’d like to know whether the C30 bogie pickups are active, and if so, how are they connected? Thanks.
  kingfisher Chief Train Controller



Regarding electrical pickups, are the bogies wired to the locomotive, and how is this done? In the case of the Southern Rail 10 class there are double sided pickups fitted to the pony trucks, but they are not wired to the loco, giving electrical pickup on the drivers only.
I don't understand why they'd put pick-ups on the pony trucks which serve no purpose?????

Roachie
Could they act as centering springs?

Peter
I don’t know why the SRM 10 class bogie pickups were not wired, perhaps it was decided that a connection to the loco would interfere with ride and tracking of the truck? The pickups are there, from both sides, with a split axle, but no electrical connection to the loco. They might act as suspension but definitely not as centering springs. Anyway, this is the Austrains thread and I’d like to know whether the C30 bogie pickups are active, and if so, how are they connected? Thanks.
NSWRcars
The bogies are electrically active and are connected by fine wires. The instructions that come with the loco advise against removing the bogies because of the fine wire connections. The larger diameter replacement bogie wheels supplied with the loco can be filled without removing the bogies from the loco.

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