SWRL extension(s)

 
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Ads in newspapers of 22 June 2015 (Daily Telegraph, etc.) show corridors being preserved for extensions of the SWRL (South West Rail Link) past Leppington.

One extension goes via Rossmore, Bringelly and North Bringelly to Badgerys Creek Airport.

The other extension branches of the above line between R and B with stations at Maryland and Oran Park to Narellan.

The line at the Narellan terminus is aligned so that it could continue to Macarthur.

Note the possible confusion in the names Maryland and Merrylands.

Note that the Geographical Names Board doesn't like "South", etc, in the names of suburbs.

The map finishes at BC Airport, so it is not known how this line might continue to say St Marys.

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  jcouch Assistant Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a commuter train
Yeah I posted the link to the consultantion process from the Transport NSW site at the end of the old construction thread. I'll copy them over here. Probably better to start a new thread anyway as the extensions discussions and construction will be going for another decade or two.

Local Camden paper - the Macarthur Advertiser had it on this week's front page along with a couple of pages internally ful of the usual wailing and gnashing of teeth from the locals.  The opinions put forward was "put it all underground", which would be pretty expensive, but the ground out here is all dirt, not sandstone.  

The proposed Narellan station is quite interesting - right next to the hugely expanded shopping center that is going in right now. Then.... well there's a major road and just a big pile of 60's housing.  Probably cheaper to purchase and demolish that then to put it underground. There's nothing really special about that neighbourhood as it is just regular family housing. Alignment looks right to hook it up to the coal washery track.

Edit: TfNSW Link: http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/projects-swrl-extension-corridor-preservation
  normw Junior Train Controller

I would imagine, given the late start on preserving a corridor south towards (at this stage) Narellan, through suburbs already extensively built, that underground will not only allow losing the least votes, it would also allow stations to be more central to their respective suburbs and not require a lot of 'dead-end' streets. While 'Pansy' crossing Camden Valley Way on the level was practical when it was built, I doubt level crossings or bridges are appropriate these days into an already built-up area. Also of interest is that the junction was shown as west of Rossmore Yard, which gives some wonder of the need for 4 platforms at Leppington. The one point of annoyance is the entire transport infrastructure being 'envisaged' retains a CBD focus.
  normw Junior Train Controller

The proposed Narellan station is quite interesting - right next to the hugely expanded shopping center that is going in right now. Then.... well there's a major road and just a big pile of 60's housing.  Probably cheaper to purchase and demolish that then to put it underground. There's nothing really special about that neighbourhood as it is just regular family housing. Alignment looks right to hook it up to the coal washery track.

Edit: TfNSW Link: http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/projects-swrl-extension-corridor-preservation
jcouch
AFAICS the proposed Narellan Station is on the north side of Camden Valley Way rather than to the south where the present Town Centre shopping mall is? The coal wash track, as all of the old Narellan station, is barely even a memory, so effectively was its existance removed.
  ivahri Train Controller

The coal wash track he refers to is Glenlee... and it is still there. Narellan station needs to be underneath the shopping centre. The 1960s houses are being consumed anyway- by commercial or high density housing. It is only logical that the line joins up with the main south at Glenlee.

Cheers


Richard
  jcouch Assistant Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a commuter train
The one point of annoyance is the entire transport infrastructure being 'envisaged' retains a CBD focus.
normw
I don't know how accurate the corridor marker is on their plans, but it is suggesting a much more decentralised. If you look at where the line splits around luddenham, the suggested corridor has the line turning north towards the airport, and the suggested future hookup to St Marys station (hey, wonder what those quad tracks might come in handy for?). I've seen drawings on the official sites that suggest the St Mary's interchange will also head north and hook up with the extended NWRL on the Richmond line. Thus effectively creating quite a large loop.

The one interesting bit to note is that there is a long wide radius turn north after Rossmore, and the track comes in from the south, with no radius of the split towards the south. If that is even remotely correct, it suggests a ring-road approach where the south line branches somewhere south of Macarthur station, heads north through Narellan and then keeps going to St Marys without the ability to turn east into Leppington.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
I've seen drawings on the official sites that suggest the St Mary's interchange will also head north and hook up with the extended NWRL on the Richmond line. Thus effectively creating quite a large loop.

jcouch
Problem: The NWRL is single decker with driverless trains, and the Leppington line (an extension of the East Hills line) is double deck and manual driven.

Something has to give.

It seems that the "quite a large loop" is not actually feasible.
  TomBTR Train Controller

Location: near Sydney
I would be surprised if a loop appeared but if it did then there is an equal chance of the NWRL being extended South, complete with driverless trains. That would be consistent with the NSW Government's ideology.
  ivahri Train Controller

Well if you know what the current NSW government's ideology is then you may care to explain it... that is just a nonsense comment. It has nothing to do with "ideology", a Metro is suited for short, high capacity rail travel. Not only that but no-one has suggested (beyond early conceptual sketches) that there will be an outer loop extending to the NW rail link. What makes sense is that somewhere in the St Marys area would make a fairly direct cross from the main west to this new link to the main south. I'd still like to see a connection from the new line to the main west, but facing the west to provide an alternate path to/from the west.... that makes more sense to me than an extension to the NW Metro. For example to implement a service linking Penrith to the new airport & then onto the existing airport... that would serve multiple purposes.



Richard
  Aurora8 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Well if you know what the current NSW government's ideology is then you may care to explain it... that is just a nonsense comment. It has nothing to do with "ideology", a Metro is suited for short, high capacity rail travel.
ivahri
Something the Government doesn't seem to understand, hence Metro NorthWest
  normw Junior Train Controller

The coal wash track he refers to is Glenlee... and it is still there. Narellan station needs to be underneath the shopping centre. The 1960s houses are being consumed anyway- by commercial or high density housing. It is only logical that the line joins up with the main south at Glenlee.

Cheers


Richard
ivahri
Thanks for the clear-up. I thought (obviously not enough) that he was referring to the coal siding that used to be at the original Narellan station... Sad
  jcouch Assistant Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a commuter train
Resurrecting a bit of an old thread here

A discussion paper on western Sydney options including extensions for Badgery's Creek has been release today. Quite extensive and haven't yet read it all.

Top level starts here:

http://www.westernsydneyrail.transport.nsw.gov.au/the-discussion-paper

Comments close 28 October.
  jcouch Assistant Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a commuter train
More pre-announcements of the extensions.  Looks like the general guesses of everyone were pretty spot on.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/new-rail-links-to-badgerys-creek-airport-to-be-signature-projects-20180222-p4z1ah.html

* BC heavy rail to St Marys
* Metro through to schofields
* Something from St Marys to Schofields

Talk of the southern branch to Macarthur, but no specific details.
  Transtopic Assistant Commissioner

More pre-announcements of the extensions.  Looks like the general guesses of everyone were pretty spot on.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/new-rail-links-to-badgerys-creek-airport-to-be-signature-projects-20180222-p4z1ah.html

* BC heavy rail to St Marys
* Metro through to schofields
* Something from St Marys to Schofields

Talk of the southern branch to Macarthur, but no specific details.
jcouch
The report suggests that all extensions will be heavy rail (i.e. Sydney Trains), which is what I suspected it would be.  A North/South link has been foreshadowed for months now by the Federal Government, although not endorsed by the State which favours an East/West link to Parramatta.  No doubt this has been a sticking point between the two governments and the reason for the delay in releasing the final recommendations, which were promised months ago.  As the Feds hold the purse strings, it appears that they will get their way.    

Although it depicts an interchange between the heavy rail line and metro at Rouse Hill, I expect that the metro will be extended to Schofields where it will interchange with the new line and the Richmond Line.  It's a distinct possibility that the new line will connect directly with the existing line to Richmond, ultimately allowing direct services from Richmond to Campbelltown via St Marys and Badgerys Creek Airport.
  Ethan1395 Junior Train Controller

Location: An OSCar H Set
The link of the Transport for NSW website (https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/projects/current-projects/south-west-rail-link-extension-corridor) doesn't mention a link from St Marys to Schofields / Rouse Hill, if such a link were to go ahead, it would be a great opportunity to resurrect the former Ropes Creek Line (although such a line would prove difficult without going underground due to the housing area).


Although it depicts an interchange between the heavy rail line and metro at Rouse Hill, I expect that the metro will be extended to Schofields where it will interchange with the new line and the Richmond Line.
Transtopic
Sadly the extension up to the North-West is just more proof of how much a bad idea the incompatible Sydney Metro is, I like where the new tracks are going (the north-west link alongside the second harbour crossing and new CBD stations to take the stress off Town Hall and Wynyard), but the incompatibility with the existing network is a killer.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
NW Metro can be extended to Schofields and then extended to St Mary's or anywhere else on the western line thats suitable with no issues for the rest of the network.

The Leppington line should be extended to the same location via the new airport but also with a branch heading south to Camden area.
  darcyj Chief Train Controller

Important in consideration of extending from Leppington to Badgery's Creek is determining how the mainline will pass the Leppington stabling yard.

As presently organised, the Down and Up Main tracks form roads 6 and 5 respectively in the yard.  At the western end of the yard is a high concrete embankment.  It goes without saying that to cut the yard in half by having rail traffic passing through the middle at track speed would be logistically troublesome.

On the northern side of the electric sidings are two unwired roads called "Machine Roads", and the northern boundary of the entire complex is parallel to these roads (the carpark and buildings of LSY being on the southern side of the yard).  Clearly, the way to extend the running lines is around the northern side of the yard.

I would hope that as this plan and project develops, the RTBU will hold up the interests of train crew who need to work in that yard, and insist that extension of the running lines be completely and safely clear of all stabling roads.
  ivahri Train Controller

Important in consideration of extending from Leppington to Badgery's Creek is determining how the mainline will pass the Leppington stabling yard.

As presently organised, the Down and Up Main tracks form roads 6 and 5 respectively in the yard.  At the western end of the yard is a high concrete embankment.  It goes without saying that to cut the yard in half by having rail traffic passing through the middle at track speed would be logistically troublesome.

On the northern side of the electric sidings are two unwired roads called "Machine Roads", and the northern boundary of the entire complex is parallel to these roads (the carpark and buildings of LSY being on the southern side of the yard).  Clearly, the way to extend the running lines is around the northern side of the yard.

I would hope that as this plan and project develops, the RTBU will hold up the interests of train crew who need to work in that yard, and insist that extension of the running lines be completely and safely clear of all stabling roads.
darcyj
But when I watched it being built I always thought that was planned... middle two roads would become the future extension.
  Just The Tip Locomotive Driver

Location: Danger zone
Will the yard be needed at all? Why would you need stabling when it is no longer a terminus of the line?
  jcouch Assistant Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a commuter train
Followup article with the official announcement.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/turnbull-announces-aerotropolis-at-badgerys-creek-in-western-sydney-20180304-p4z2s5.html
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Will the yard be needed at all? Why would you need stabling when it is no longer a terminus of the line?
Just The Tip
Need to store trains somewhere, few of the yards are at the actual line terminus.
  jcouch Assistant Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a commuter train
More details on the route reservations for both trains and roads in western Sydney.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/homeowners-find-properties-in-path-of-future-rail-road-projects-20180326-p4z68z.html

Interesting to note in this one that the line from Oran Park through to Narellan is showing "indicative" route, whereas previous publications on the NSW Gov website has quite firm locations for the lines and train station (underground right next to the new Narellan Town Centre. Also shows a tunnel almost all the way to Macarthur station and ignoring the Glenlee branch.  Also mention of a Western Sydney freight line, which is the first I've seen of it. Must have been asleep in previous discussions!

Edit: Here's the Gov project site:

https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/corridors/nsrl-swrl
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

Will the yard be needed at all? Why would you need stabling when it is no longer a terminus of the line?
Just The Tip
Flemington, auburn, mortdale, blacktown and north sydney CS aren't termini.

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