Australian cricketer Cameron Bancroft charged with ball tampering as Steve Smith admits he helped hatch the plan

 
  Greensleeves Chief Commissioner

Location: If it isn't obvious by now, it should be.
Darren Lehmann's been rather absent since this story broke. In my mind he's screwed either way, as he either knew about it and is implicit, or he didn't know what his team was doing (rather doubtful) and therefore incompetent.

Dead man walking either way...

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  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Meanwhile, in the match itself, Australia's numbers 3, 4 5, and 6 batsmen made 65 runs between them for a magnificent average of 8.125.
The're good at premediated abuse and sledging, but maybe a little more concentration on playing could help.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
What cowardice as a captain to put a young player like Bancroft under pressure to cheat.  These events are the product of a culture which is in much need of review and change.  The last time I can think of anything like this was the underarm bowling incident at the MCG.  Win at all cost.

Smith is done.  He will not return as captain.  Warne got a year's suspension for a tablet from his mother.

What of Warner?
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

What cowardice as a captain to put a young player like Bancroft under pressure to cheat.  These events are the product of a culture which is in much need of review and change.  The last time I can think of anything like this was the underarm bowling incident at the MCG.  Win at all cost.

Smith is done.  He will not return as captain.  Warne got a year's suspension for a tablet from his mother.

What of Warner?
bevans
The underarm was legal.  Ball tampering isn't.

Borrowing the immortal words of the Hon. Peter Dutton MP - The Aussie Cricket team are "dead to me".
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
Without supporting Smith, he is only one of several captains and other players to to charged with ball tampering.  Faf has been charged twice!   Several are still playing and haven't been nailed to a wall anywhere.   Yes, this was premeditated, but so is having a bottle cap in the pocket or a mountain of mints to chew through.  
The charge of ball tampering is not in the severe category (only a demerit point and match fee fine).   If it is as bad as everyone says it is, maybe the penalty should be increased to suspension or 10 year ban as some have commented on.   Until then, Smith gets one match and Bancroft gets 3 demerits.
But Smith should know better and is a disgrace to Australian cricket.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The underarm was legal.  Ball tampering isn't.

Carnot

Which makes it all the worse for the team.  Like the under arm incident where the New Zealanders never let us forget it this will hang around for years.  I cannot believe the press conference from Smith, burning so many bridges "the leadership group" knew about it.  Well that is going to impact a few careers.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

The underarm was legal.  Ball tampering isn't.

Which makes it all the worse for the team.  Like the under arm incident where the New Zealanders never let us forget it this will hang around for years.  I cannot believe the press conference from Smith, burning so many bridges "the leadership group" knew about it.  Well that is going to impact a few careers.
bevans
Burning bridges, if I'm going down then I'll take many with me.
Cricket Australia needs a big broom cleanout.
These removed need the big stick. It needs to impact a few careers.
Suthurlands press conference, how on earth did he stand up for that, with no spine.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Another thing I want to know about Cricket Australia is why are there 16 support staff with 15 players in South Africa?
A manager and assistant, a scorer/baggage man, and a physio were sufficient for most teams over the years that I've been following test cricket.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Another thing I want to know about Cricket Australia is why are there 16 support staff with 15 players in South Africa?
A manager and assistant, a scorer/baggage man, and a physio were sufficient for most teams over the years that I've been following test cricket.
Valvegear
Valvegear, you missed that gravy train.

Suggesting the financial pie will be somewhat smaller when the dust settles. And staffing level will reflect that. Performance managers and all other titles given the hangers on, just need one replacement. The do not cheat manager.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

The terminology has shifted from 'leadership group' to 'senior players'.

If he plays again, perhaps Warner won't see the need to wear so much tape on his fingers when fielding.
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
I was dismayed and shocked yesterday when I heard of this, I thought Steve Smith was a lot smarter and wiser than this, as did everyone I assume , there needs to be a total cleanout for the 4th test, no Warner, Smith won't be there, no Bancroft, and whoever else was in the core leadership group, It's hard for me to say this, but I hope the Proteas clean house in the 4th test!

Kind Regards
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

I was dismayed and shocked yesterday when I heard of this, I thought Steve Smith was a lot smarter and wiser than this, as did everyone I assume , there needs to be a total cleanout for the 4th test, no Warner, Smith won't be there, no Bancroft, and whoever else was in the core leadership group, It's hard for me to say this, but I hope the Proteas clean house in the 4th test!
lsrailfan
It's by no means definite that there will even be a Fourth Test.

Hopefully this will be the time that the Cricket Australia hierarchy recognise that they finally need to show a little backbone and support their players better, because they always end up with bigger problems every time they refuse. This incident would never have occurred if they had withdrawn the team after the first two matches were hosted in a manner entirely outside the spirit of the game.
  CraigW Assistant Commissioner

It's by no means definite that there will even be a Fourth Test.

Hopefully this will be the time that the Cricket Australia hierarchy recognise that they finally need to show a little backbone and support their players better, because they always end up with bigger problems every time they refuse. This incident would never have occurred if they had withdrawn the team after the first two matches were hosted in a manner entirely outside the spirit of the game.
justapassenger
They were nasty to us so we cheated?

Media reports from South Africa suggest that they started to follow the handling of the ball after suspicions in the first two tests. If true, that suggests something far different to an isolated incident.

Ban them all for life. Show a bit of backbone and restore some dignity to a game that is meant to be a hallmark of good conduct and sportsmanship.

Craig W
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
I am no supporter of the situation either, but Donald has it right, Smith is hardly the first to be caught/charged with this, and it’s hardly a hanging offence.

A bit of perspective might be needed, so they did something they’re not allowed to, and they were caught, no big deal, prior cases have demonstrated outcomes are seldom as severe as those called for here.

Life will go on, cricket will continue and likely the team will remain much as it is.
  fzr560 Chief Train Controller

I am no supporter of the situation either, but Donald has it right, Smith is hardly the first to be caught/charged with this, and it’s hardly a hanging offence.

A bit of perspective might be needed, so they did something they’re not allowed to, and they were caught, no big deal, prior cases have demonstrated outcomes are seldom as severe as those called for here.

Life will go on, cricket will continue and likely the team will remain much as it is.
Aaron
Whilst past Australian captains have been savage in their condemnation , it is interesting that the ICC disciplinary code does not seem to rate "changing the condition of the ball" as worthy of the most severe punishment. Is this a case of rules being written to suit the reality of modern cricket(al la the chucking rule)?
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
I am no supporter of the situation either, but Donald has it right, Smith is hardly the first to be caught/charged with this, and it’s hardly a hanging offence.

A bit of perspective might be needed, so they did something they’re not allowed to, and they were caught, no big deal, prior cases have demonstrated outcomes are seldom as severe as those called for here.

Life will go on, cricket will continue and likely the team will remain much as it is.
Aaron
Aussies are generally not a cheating nation, we love to play hard and win, not cheat and win, this is indeed a hanging offence in my view, just because of the sheer pre planning that went into this, Smith and Warner ought to have known better, they are not kids, massive punishments to come here I think.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
A bit of perspective might be needed, so they did something they’re not allowed to, and they were caught, no big deal, prior cases have demonstrated outcomes are seldom as severe as those called for here.
Aaron
The perspective is simple. Australia is guilty of premeditated cheating. Australia has been the champion finger-pointer at more other instances of alleged  cheating that one could count, and now, we have just shot ourselves off the moral high ground.
Lehmann complains to the South Africans about their crowd behaviour - the same Lehmann who, in 2013, publicly branded Stuart Broad a cheat for accepting the umpire's decision of not out, and not walking. The same Lehmann who publicly asked Australian crowds to relentlessly abuse Broad so that he'd cry and go home.
Smith airily says, "This is not what this team is about." Rubbish - he has just proved that it is exactly what it's about.
Over the past ten years, whenever there has been friction and unpleasantness in test cricket, the one common denominator is Australia, and now we have reached the nadir.
Australian cricket has been irreparably damaged, and those responsible should be booted out.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Over the past ten years, whenever there has been friction and unpleasantness in test cricket, the one common denominator is Australia, and now we have reached the nadir.
Australian cricket has been irreparably damaged
Valvegear
The sledging by Australian players has always made me feel uneasy, as a cricket fan i still hold on the the quaint old notion that it is a Gentleman's game even though I can see it is not every time I go to a game or watch it on TV.

The conduct of both teams in this series but Australia in particular (primarily because I am Australian) really worried me from the get go and seemed to get worse as the series progressed. Something was always going to happen to really light it up but I never thought that thing would be Australia ball tampering.

And now it comes to this, with allegations coming from everywhere now that we have done it before. Sad really.

BG
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
^ I don't have a problem with sledging at all, as long at is not based on race/religion/sexuality. But I honestly cannot see a problem with Ian Healy labelling Arjuna Ranatunga as a fat c*** back in the day. On field, cricket has never been a gentlemen's game per se, e.g. even back in the bodyline series Jardine and maybe one other were referred to as gentlemen in the pommy side and the rest of the team were merely referred to as players. For us, Bradman was supposedly the gentleman. Playing the game in the correct spirit is much more relevant, regardless of status and regardless of what is said on the field. But, there is definitely a hierarchy in play to this day.

I have a theory regarding why the leaders in the current team, i.e. Smith and Warner, thought that they could get away with it. They are New South Welshmen with a born-to-rule mentality. Before anyone attempts to shoot me down for being parochial, consider that the Australian team has always consisted of NSW players first, and the scraps from the rest of the country second, although obviously selector Langer has tried his best (and succeeded lately) in trying to swing the pendulum W.A.'s way. NSW represents The Establishment, and to this day Cricket Australia is loath to interfere.
  billybaxter Deputy Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
Unfortunately, Australians have quite a reputation for arrogance and cheating, and even a brief look at international papers shows a sense of amusement and schadenfreude rather than shock or surprise. Even the scorn of the Australian press is painted as typical Aussie hypocrisy. A sad state of affairs indeed.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
On field, cricket has never been a gentlemen's game per se, e.g. even back in the bodyline series Jardine and maybe one other were referred to as gentlemen in the pommy side and the rest of the team were merely referred to as players.
"DirtyBallast"
What they were referred to was merely an artificial class distinction between amateur and professional. As the late, great Frank Tyson wrote, " Maybe not all of the gentlemen were players, but all of the players were gentlemen." Jardine played hard within the rules. So did Bradman, Benaud, Ian Chappell et al, and I expect all teams to do this.

Australian cricket has stunk from the head down for the last decade at least. Nowadys we don't hear about the way we intend to bowl at Player X; we hear about the pre-planned abuse we're going to pile on him.
Cricket is a game of skill, and abuse and cheating have no place in it. Nobody minds the spontaneous one-liner; some of which have been hilarious, but it should still primarily be a game for sportsmen.
  Big J Assistant Commissioner

Location: In Paradise
I am no supporter of the situation either, but Donald has it right, Smith is hardly the first to be caught/charged with this, and it’s hardly a hanging offence.

A bit of perspective might be needed, so they did something they’re not allowed to, and they were caught, no big deal, prior cases have demonstrated outcomes are seldom as severe as those called for here.

Life will go on, cricket will continue and likely the team will remain much as it is.
Aaron
You are right the actual offence has received the proportional punishment already.

The issue is the fact that this so called "leadership" group though it was ok to undertake premeditated cheating as group!

Smith's post match interview shows out of touch he is as a leader for a national sporting team. He dumped the leadership group in it, but I don't think it was to burn bridges, I think he genuinely thought what they did was wrong, but according to the rules of the game the consequences are minor. He didn't consider the reason that he and CA receive millions is about their performance and their role in our society. He miscalculated that he thought the public would tolerate it. Shows how bad this leadership culture is and out of touch with reality.

It is going to cost him big time, captaincy, his own endorsements and CA sponsorship. He didn't factor that in when they decided to do this. If he actually thought about, the incident would not have happened.

As others said Lehmann, as much as I like him, he is gone too. Either being involved in thinking this is ok or not involved and having no influence on the team culture.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Even Smith's reference to the "leadership group" has not gone down too well. The group includeds Starc and Hazelwood, both of whom have come out and stated that they had no prior knowledge of the scheme, so it looks as they have possibly been thrown under a bus.
The leadership group is apparently Smith, Warner, Starc, Hazelwood and Lyon and, as one writer asked, "Why do we need half the team to lead the other half?"
Warner is also getting some pretty good press this morning about his reaction to du Plessis' shining the ball with a Minties/saliva mix in Hobart a couple of years ago. His sanctimonious remarks about the way " we are above this sort of thing" etc, have come back to bite him on the bum, and deservedly so.

Edit: Warner in Hobart:-
If ever there was a cricketer who exemplified the term ‘live by the sword, die by the sword’, it’s David Warner, and now he has a blade to his belly after some embarrassing quotes regarding ball tampering – about South Africa, no less – have once again come to light.
The Australian Test vice-captain – who was stood down from his senior role following the scandal that is playing out, regarding Cameron Bancroft taking a piece of roughed up tape to the cherry under instruction from team leaders – had been on the front foot against the Proteas in 2016, when Faf du Plessis was charged with ball tampering.
The quote in question Warner may now wish he'd kept to himself?
“We as players know the guidelines now, so if you’re going to overstep that mark, then you get fined – be prepared to miss Test matches as well.”

Warner’s words came following the Hobart Test of 2016, in which du Plessis – not the Proteas' on-field leader at the time – had been caught using a mint and his saliva to change the nature of the red ball.
“I just know from an Australian cricket perspective, we hold our heads high and, you know, I’d be very disappointed if one of our team members did that and how they were reacting,” Warner said.
“The rules are in place for a reason, if you’re not going to use them, then why bother having them?” Warner had asked at the time.
“That’s just the fortunate thing these days, they’ve got the rules and they’re going to stand by their decisions, and I think that’s a good thing.”

(My emphasis.)
  davesvline Chief Commissioner

Location: 1983-1998
I have read with interest the previous posts.

Whilst not a massive fan of cricket, I've always expected there was a fair degree of gentlemanly behavior about it, whist also acknowledging that (Australia particularly) there's a bit of sledging that goes on to get under the oppositions skin, and put him off his game.

Sledging in Australian cricket is now officially dead. Any Australian cricketer who opens his gob will quickly be smashed back with "Shut the .... up you ball tampering (insert expletive here)" or similar. Sledging wise, (and it would seem credibility) we have no leg to stand on EVER again!

How many school kids stopped playing cricket yesterday??

What of the guilty here. The ICC rule book may have X,Y, Z about this or similar infractions in it, etc etc. IMHO, the punishment should reflect the manner in which all reverence is bestowed the game in the countries it is played, and the outrage displayed since this heinous incident occurred. The players should be sacked and banned for life. Not even backyard cricket for you idiots EVER again. Endorsements - safe to say they're gone, career should too.

Perhaps my suggested punishment is too harsh you say. Well, please consider the game is bigger than the individual, and the individual has brought it in to disrepute. Does my suggested punishment outweigh the crime?? Maybe. But also consider how effing dumb these guys were. Talk about a brain fart, WFT were these guys thinking?? Its an international sport at the highest level, and there's cameras EVERYWHERE.  You can't even pick your nose out on the field without atleast 10 cameras zooming in on the snot on your finger to provide in depth analysis of the moisture content of said snot.

They've damaged the games esteem in the national psyche, and abroad. To repair this, and example needs to be made of them.

It is for this reason alone, the utter stupidity of doing it under this microscope, and then thinking they wouldn't be discovered. No pun, but they should be taken to with the biggest bat that can be found. Guys, you're gone, finished, washed up. Not entirely for that you did but because on the stage you play, you were always going to get caught, yet you did it anyway ShockedShocked

There's Smith at the press conference admitting it, like Yeah, so what..... Clearly, he wasn't thinking, and now he's got the rest of his life, with possibly no ability to earn an income from the came he was great at.

F..ktards, all of them!

Their bodies are probably being burned in effigy in India/Pakistan, these countries would be loving this.



Regards
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Now the sponsors are making a lot of noise.  There has been ball tampering in the past but not to my knowledge such a premeditated approach to win at all cost.



I think now Smith is gone and this morning some media outlets are reporting Warner was the main figure in the plan.

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