Toowoomba Range Tunnel Lowering Project Begins

 
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

As above, the NG connection to rosewood will remain, and has been semi-comfirmed.  It will still be useful as a diversionary route for NG traffic due to trackworks.  I see proper passenger services being reinstated to toowoomba once Inland is built, but of where the toowoomba stations will be is anyones guess.  It is going to be built to 200km/hr standards so it will have no issue for trains which will likely have a top speed of 160kph.  I see it as a bendigo style line, slightly too far for normal commuters and not quite frequent enough, but will have decent patronage.

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  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
I see proper passenger services being reinstated to toowoomba once Inland is built, but of where the toowoomba stations will be is anyones guess.
tazzer96
Agreed - im hoping it can be somehow kept at the current station location but might need to backtrack to Gowrie to do so...


It is going to be built to 200km/hr standards so it will have no issue for trains which will likely have a top speed of 160kph.
tazzer96

Where are you getting this info from???
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

It is going to be built to 200km/hr standards so it will have no issue for trains which will likely have a top speed of 160kph.

Where are you getting this info from???
james.au
From the alignment study, available on TMR's website
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Trapped in a meeting with Rhonda and Karsten
I see proper passenger services being reinstated to Toowoomba once Inland is built, but of where the Toowoomba stations will be is anyones guess.
Agreed - I'm hoping it can be somehow kept at the current station location but might need to backtrack to Gowrie to do so...
james.au
There's an allowance in the currently defined alignment for a full NG triangle at Gowrie Junction (red = preferred alignment, orange = existing West Moreton railway line):


That would enable passenger trains to use Toowoomba Railway Station exactly as they do currently (as well as provide access to Aurizon's maintenance facility in Harlaxton).
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
@LancedDendrite - yes ive seen that map - which is where im thinking that at least someone is thinking about future connections...

@tazzer96 - can you provide a link?
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
As above, the NG connection to rosewood will remain, and has been semi-comfirmed.  It will still be useful as a diversionary route for NG traffic due to trackworks.  I see proper passenger services being reinstated to toowoomba once Inland is built, but of where the toowoomba stations will be is anyones guess.  It is going to be built to 200km/hr standards so it will have no issue for trains which will likely have a top speed of 160kph.  I see it as a bendigo style line, slightly too far for normal commuters and not quite frequent enough, but will have decent patronage.
tazzer96

Try finding a bus timetable from Toowoomba to Brisbane or Ipswich...IMPOSSIBLE Exclamation

I gave up...but I know up till the confusing Bus Queensland website took over from Greyhound there used to be around 4 buses each way each day.

Four buses for a City of 100,000 plus.

Bendigo...the same distance from Melbourne as Toowoomba is from Brisbane has around 20 trains a day...and the additional night buses on the weekend.

https://www.vline.com.au/getattachment/dd2f9c48-ef72-48b0-9c22-8b2c95e61c07/Bendigo-Timetable-(2)

Mike.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
As above, the NG connection to rosewood will remain, and has been semi-comfirmed.  It will still be useful as a diversionary route for NG traffic due to trackworks.  I see proper passenger services being reinstated to toowoomba once Inland is built, but of where the toowoomba stations will be is anyones guess.  It is going to be built to 200km/hr standards so it will have no issue for trains which will likely have a top speed of 160kph.  I see it as a bendigo style line, slightly too far for normal commuters and not quite frequent enough, but will have decent patronage.
tazzer96
I don't know where I read this, but I read the curvature on the range is not as straight as we may think it will be. The reason stated was that banking loaded container container trains would not be slow due to gradient anyway. So I wouldn't hold my breath on the 160km/hr, but I'm sure +100km/h is possible for pax.

The connection at Gowrie for Toowooba is nothing more than a line on the map if needed. Likely it will be needed for the existing depo unless they decide to move and before people write this off as "No Chance in Hell", the current yard is just long enough for the current short train operations (and even then not all loops) and would be no longer a "through road" for the coal traffic, so trains going in would need to shunt the locos to rear.  

The Inland will allow much longer trains and heavier trains, so the number of rakes needs is far fewer, likely each train will move 3 x the current rake. It will also require trains to come in, then shunt the locos to rear of train, so I would not place money on Willowburn lasting more than a few years post opening of Inland.

Would a commuter passenger service use the current Toowoomba station which by then will be a short branch off the Inland with the SW NG line closed? Assume the line south of Russel Street (southern end of station) is closed. It might survive as the number of remaining level crossings is small and more easily by-passed with over passes. If the commuter train is NG, then its relatively straight forward lower cost upgrade and rationalised to a basic stub branch with removal of redundant infrastructure and selling off excess land.
  locojoe67 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Gen X purgatory/urban Joh-land
There's not a lot of redundant Toowoomba Yard adjacent the platform and building to sell off. Most of the surplus sidings have gone, the land used for construction of the inner city bypass. There are a couple sidings left and a passing loop but that's about it. North of the platform and next to Gowrie Creek before the triangle leg there is some vacant space, but there might be building restrictions due to the known flooding issues.

https://qrheritage.tumblr.com/search/twb150

Based on QRs history, the station would be deemed unacceptable as a disability non compliant installation and replaced by a new, single high level platform somewhere on the northern side of town. That's if the revenue passenger service happened at all.

Once the Inland is operational, I'd like to see Downs Steam get access to the existing building and NG track down the range. QR seem more approachable to reuse of existing facilities for occasional heritage services, but regular scheduled passenger services don't seem to get the same latitude.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
As above, the NG connection to rosewood will remain, and has been semi-comfirmed.  It will still be useful as a diversionary route for NG traffic due to trackworks.  I see proper passenger services being reinstated to toowoomba once Inland is built, but of where the toowoomba stations will be is anyones guess.  It is going to be built to 200km/hr standards so it will have no issue for trains which will likely have a top speed of 160kph.  I see it as a bendigo style line, slightly too far for normal commuters and not quite frequent enough, but will have decent patronage.

Try finding a bus timetable from Toowoomba to Brisbane or Ipswich...IMPOSSIBLE Exclamation

I gave up...but I know up till the confusing Bus Queensland website took over from Greyhound there used to be around 4 buses each way each day.

Four buses for a City of 100,000 plus.

Bendigo...the same distance from Melbourne as Toowoomba is from Brisbane has around 20 trains a day...and the additional night buses on the weekend.

https://www.vline.com.au/getattachment/dd2f9c48-ef72-48b0-9c22-8b2c95e61c07/Bendigo-Timetable-(2)

Mike.
The Vinelander
Hi Mike

Took 10 sec

http://https://www.murrays.com.au/brisbane-toowoomba.aspx

Lack of buses to Brisbane may suggest less demand compared to the south.

Lack of trains I assume should be obvious
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Theres at least 3 companies providing service, Murrays, Greyhound and Bus Queensland are 3 i found quickly through Google.  Looks to be around 10-15 daily services, though havent done a detailed count.

Doesnt also count the number of private journeys but I do know there are about 25k daily trips on the highway down the range from Toowoomba.

Re busses, info I have is that the council doesn't want to disrupt the bus companies by pushing for rail.  Read that as you may about the influence of the bus companies...
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

Toowoomba has huge amounts of coaches to brisbane.  Some start further out west, but a decent majority run toowoomba-brisbane and return.  Some even going for the commuter and regular passenger market.
I don't think there would be many coaches to ipswich as its a bit of a detour
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
As above, the NG connection to rosewood will remain, and has been semi-comfirmed.  It will still be useful as a diversionary route for NG traffic due to trackworks.  I see proper passenger services being reinstated to toowoomba once Inland is built, but of where the toowoomba stations will be is anyones guess.  It is going to be built to 200km/hr standards so it will have no issue for trains which will likely have a top speed of 160kph.  I see it as a bendigo style line, slightly too far for normal commuters and not quite frequent enough, but will have decent patronage.

Try finding a bus timetable from Toowoomba to Brisbane or Ipswich...IMPOSSIBLE Exclamation

I gave up...but I know up till the confusing Bus Queensland website took over from Greyhound there used to be around 4 buses each way each day.

Four buses for a City of 100,000 plus.

Bendigo...the same distance from Melbourne as Toowoomba is from Brisbane has around 20 trains a day...and the additional night buses on the weekend.

https://www.vline.com.au/getattachment/dd2f9c48-ef72-48b0-9c22-8b2c95e61c07/Bendigo-Timetable-(2)

Mike.
Hi Mike

Took 10 sec

http://https://www.murrays.com.au/brisbane-toowoomba.aspx

Lack of buses to Brisbane may suggest less demand compared to the south.

Lack of trains I assume should be obvious
RTT_Rules

Err...did you actually OPEN the link Question

Hence my original concern...don't rely on a Google search with no result.

This site can’t be reachedhttps’s server IP address could not be found.



Mike.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Err...did you actually OPEN the link Question

Hence my original concern...don't rely on a Google search with no result.

This site can’t be reachedhttps’s server IP address could not be found.



Mike.Yes and went to make booking.

I thought it was straightforward


EDIT: Ok I see what you mean, from that link it doesn't work, although that was from a working page.

In Google I typed in (again) "Brisbane to Toowoomba bus"
List comes up, Murray's has even timetable in Gooogle.
Press and then moves to be fairly straightforward booking page.
  Lockspike Assistant Commissioner

Once the Inland is operational, I'd like to see Downs Steam get access to the existing building and NG track down the range. QR seem more approachable to reuse of existing facilities for occasional heritage services, but regular scheduled passenger services don't seem to get the same latitude.
locojoe67
Nice idea as the terrain is very scenic and the flower festival trips down to Spring Bluff prove there is a market. However, the range is very susceptible to washaways and landslides and without the imperative to get coal moving asap, a heritage train organisation will really struggle to re-open and resume services after an adverse weather event.
  Lockspike Assistant Commissioner

As above, the NG connection to rosewood will remain, and has been semi-comfirmed.  It will still be useful as a diversionary route for NG traffic due to trackworks.  I see proper passenger services being reinstated to toowoomba once Inland is built, but of where the toowoomba stations will be is anyones guess.  It is going to be built to 200km/hr standards so it will have no issue for trains which will likely have a top speed of 160kph.  I see it as a bendigo style line, slightly too far for normal commuters and not quite frequent enough, but will have decent patronage.
I don't know where I read this, but I read the curvature on the range is not as straight as we may think it will be. The reason stated was that banking loaded container container trains would not be slow due to gradient anyway. So I wouldn't hold my breath on the 160km/hr, but I'm sure +100km/h is possible for pax.

Would a commuter passenger service use the current Toowoomba station which by then will be a short branch off the Inland with the SW NG line closed? Assume the line south of Russel Street (southern end of station) is closed. It might survive as the number of remaining level crossings is small and more easily by-passed with over passes. If the commuter train is NG, then its relatively straight forward lower cost upgrade and rationalised to a basic stub branch with removal of redundant infrastructure and selling off excess land.
RTT_Rules
A commuter service via the IRL would be a fantastic boost for Toowoomba as it has been wherever it has been provided for regional cities located close to the capital city. If a minimum 100km/h alignment is provided from Gowrie Jct to Kagaru this will make it an hour from Toowoomba to Kagaru. Kagaru is a similar distance from the CBD as Coomera is on the Gold Coast line; in rounded terms Coomera is an hour from the CBD. With a similar stopping pattern to Gold Coast trains, I make it at least a 2hr journey compared to say, Murray's 1:45 bus ride. The train may be slower but increased comfort may make it a winner.
Faster would be better.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Trapped in a meeting with Rhonda and Karsten
A commuter service via the IRL would be a fantastic boost for Toowoomba as it has been wherever it has been provided for regional cities located close to the capital city. If a minimum 100km/h alignment is provided from Gowrie Jct to Kagaru this will make it an hour from Toowoomba to Kagaru. Kagaru is a similar distance from the CBD as Coomera is on the Gold Coast line; in rounded terms Coomera is an hour from the CBD. With a similar stopping pattern to Gold Coast trains, I make it at least a 2hr journey compared to say, Murray's 1:45 bus ride. The train may be slower but increased comfort may make it a winner.
Faster would be better.
Lockspike
A Toowoomba-Ipswich-Roma St service using a tilting DMU would be better than going via Kagaru. That route would be much shorter, has a much better passenger catchment and sufficient paths should be available through Ipswich once most coal trains are able to be diverted via Kagaru.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Toowoomba has huge amounts of coaches to brisbane.  Some start further out west, but a decent majority run toowoomba-brisbane and return.  Some even going for the commuter and regular passenger market.
I don't think there would be many coaches to ipswich as its a bit of a detour
tazzer96

Seeing Toowoomba has a seemingly unlimited number of buses to Brisbane and me being advised to check Greyhound which has been taken over by Bus Queensland...perhaps you'll furnish us with an appropriate link to these many buses.

Mike.
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

Toowoomba has huge amounts of coaches to brisbane.  Some start further out west, but a decent majority run toowoomba-brisbane and return.  Some even going for the commuter and regular passenger market.
I don't think there would be many coaches to ipswich as its a bit of a detour

Seeing Toowoomba has a seemingly unlimited number of buses to Brisbane and me being advised to check Greyhound which has been taken over by Bus Queensland...perhaps you'll furnish us with an appropriate link to these many buses.

Mike.
The Vinelander
https://www.murrays.com.au/brisbane-toowoomba.aspx   -> click on daily timetable button, 4 per day in each direction
https://www.greyhound.com.au/Clients/GREYHOUNDNEW/Documents/Timetables/Brisbane-Toowoomba.pdf -> greyhound, 8 coaches per day in each direction, 2 continue/come from miles
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/57845006f5e2315860f0452d/t/5aa1ee918165f526f0ed994d/1520561827480/Tri-fold+print+timetable+%2820180309%29.pdf -> busQLD, 2 per day in each direction, one going to charleville, one going to mt ISA.  
This took me around 3 minutes to find.
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
Greyhound has been taken over by Bus Queensland
The Vinelander
Where did you get that from? Bus Queensland now serves several routes formerly served by Greyhound, but there has been no takeover.

Edit: There are also the Airport Flyer services.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Toowoomba has huge amounts of coaches to brisbane.  Some start further out west, but a decent majority run toowoomba-brisbane and return.  Some even going for the commuter and regular passenger market.
I don't think there would be many coaches to ipswich as its a bit of a detour

Seeing Toowoomba has a seemingly unlimited number of buses to Brisbane and me being advised to check Greyhound which has been taken over by Bus Queensland...perhaps you'll furnish us with an appropriate link to these many buses.

Mike.
https://www.murrays.com.au/brisbane-toowoomba.aspx   -> click on daily timetable button, 4 per day in each direction
https://www.greyhound.com.au/Clients/GREYHOUNDNEW/Documents/Timetables/Brisbane-Toowoomba.pdf -> greyhound, 8 coaches per day in each direction, 2 continue/come from miles
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/57845006f5e2315860f0452d/t/5aa1ee918165f526f0ed994d/1520561827480/Tri-fold+print+timetable+%2820180309%29.pdf -> busQLD, 2 per day in each direction, one going to charleville, one going to mt ISA.  
This took me around 3 minutes to find.
tazzer96

Thankyou for advising us your expertise in the use of working your way through the dead links and dead ends in Google to furnish us with the schedule for the 'huge amount' of buses that plough the Warrego each day to Brisbane...12.

It's not what I'd call a comprehensive service when the last bus leaves Brisbane at 18:00, the fares are a less than attractive from $26.00 each way and each seat has to be booked in advance and each service holds less pax than one train carriage.

It's also not quite a walk up and hop on frequent service like V/Line and Sydney Trains offer and though V/Line's fares are from $23.00 each way and Sydney's fares a laughable $8.00 each way, so with such a disjointed service Queensland isn't really serious about offering Toowoomba, Australia's largest inland city a user friendly PT service.

Is it any wonder the thousands of souls have to drive the Warrego each day with no real alternative Question

Thanks again for finding those links.

Regards comments about Toowoomba station and its 'low level' platform, as there's no subway along the station area it wouldn't be difficult to excavate below the existing track level to bring the carriages doorways to the existing platform level, thereby in the event of a passenger train service resuming to Brisbane, the Westlander notwithstanding, then historic Toowoomba station could again become the transport hub that it should be...though I'm not sure about Shane's comment about canting the track on the Toowoomba Range to allow for trains to travel up to 100Km/h....what a ride that would be..Shocked

Mike.
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

There are also a few airport shuttle services to brisbane.    You wouldn't be able to lower the track at toowomba station as its right next to a floodway and a major level crossing.  Its a station that could easily be raised.
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

Several projects are happening concurrently on the West Moreton System during the shutdown. Oakey Yard (mainline and loop) has been relaid with new heavy rail and new concrete sleepers (narrow gauge only).
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
Several projects are happening concurrently on the West Moreton System during the shutdown. Oakey Yard (mainline and loop) has been relaid with new heavy rail and new concrete sleepers (narrow gauge only).
Sulla1
It's very quiet here... Wink
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE

Thankyou for advising us your expertise in the use of working your way through the dead links and dead ends in Google to furnish us with the schedule for the 'huge amount' of buses that plough the Warrego each day to Brisbane...12.

It's not what I'd call a comprehensive service when the last bus leaves Brisbane at 18:00, the fares are a less than attractive from $26.00 each way and each seat has to be booked in advance and each service holds less pax than one train carriage.

It's also not quite a walk up and hop on frequent service like V/Line and Sydney Trains offer and though V/Line's fares are from $23.00 each way and Sydney's fares a laughable $8.00 each way, so with such a disjointed service Queensland isn't really serious about offering Toowoomba, Australia's largest inland city a user friendly PT service.

Is it any wonder the thousands of souls have to drive the Warrego each day with no real alternative Question

Thanks again for finding those links.

Regards comments about Toowoomba station and its 'low level' platform, as there's no subway along the station area it wouldn't be difficult to excavate below the existing track level to bring the carriages doorways to the existing platform level, thereby in the event of a passenger train service resuming to Brisbane, the Westlander notwithstanding, then historic Toowoomba station could again become the transport hub that it should be...though I'm not sure about Shane's comment about canting the track on the Toowoomba Range to allow for trains to travel up to 100Km/h....what a ride that would be..Shocked

Mike.
The Vinelander
Hi Mike
You are being very critical of something that other have show you to be different to your understanding.

As I said, with no prior attempts, I got the timetable for Murry's on my screen in seconds and less than a minute to booking page with not one dead link. Others have shown you other links that were quick to find.

Toowoomba is roughly 125km away from the capital, same as Cooroy which is serviced by commuter spark rail, x 2 a day on train, more by train/bus.

Cost to Cooroy is $19.61 (or $28.60 on paper ticket, another Qld govt F/up) and takes 2.25 - 3 h roughly.

So yes compared to Go-Card its more pricey by bus to Toowoomba, but for now I don't know what if any subsidy they get up the hill.

Sydney's operating costs are far lower than Qld and V/line hence they can have lower prices at around similar subsidies although Qld subsidy is highest in Oz.


I said 100km/h on the Inland, not NG.
  5915 Chief Commissioner

Several projects are happening concurrently on the West Moreton System during the shutdown. Oakey Yard (mainline and loop) has been relaid with new heavy rail and new concrete sleepers (narrow gauge only).
Sulla
Relaying main and passing loop at Gowrie Junction.

5915

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