Toll roads aren't the solution to our transport woes

 

News article: Toll roads aren't the solution to our transport woes

Right now, the writing’s on the wall for Australia’s major cities when it comes to liveability and transport connectivity.

  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Lots of good points in this letter from Janet Rice from the Greens.  When reading this piece you can't help but agree Transurban are not motivated by community and environmental benefits but instead they are after loads of traffic which drives revenue and in turn profits.

The idea of evening entertaining this type of solution from 2020 onwards is simply a joke and should never have been commissioned.

Daniel Andrews is pushing this road but why?  Is it because Transurban have promised him or his party something?  Victoria has access to a lot of investment money if it needs it so why take the poorer short term option?

Toll roads aren't the solution to our transport woes

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  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Lots of good points in this letter from Janet Rice from the Greens.  When reading this piece you can't help but agree Transurban are not motivated by community and environmental benefits but instead they are after loads of traffic which drives revenue and in turn profits.

The idea of evening entertaining this type of solution from 2020 onwards is simply a joke and should never have been commissioned.

Daniel Andrews is pushing this road but why?  Is it because Transurban have promised him or his party something?  Victoria has access to a lot of investment money if it needs it so why take the poorer short term option?

Toll roads aren't the solution to our transport woes
x31

I don't give a toss about Transurban putting up $$ to fund these toll roads because I'll NEVER use them and those that do use them... commuters who love travelling in their ever slower cars simply pay the tolls or they would change their ways and give their lives far more serious consideration...or container laden trucks quite often loaded up with consumables people order online that have to be somewhere and Westgate Bridge under serious loads and already unable to cope with ever increasing traffic.

Along with every other thinking person, I'm all in favour of increasing the capacity of PT and it's clear so is the Andrews government. However we all know the planning for increased capacity on roads and in particular fixed rail PT has a lead in time of around 5 years, it's not like the government can wave a wand and magic it all up overnight. We all know PT is full during peak times and also weekends so it's not like if half the drivers on the roads converted to PT there would be a seat on that train or bus...there wouldn't be.

Moreover...many vehicles on the roads just have to be, delivery vans of the same CR@P people order from China, food delivery vans, tradies, and other essential services simply have no choice but to use the road system...so as good intentioned Janet Rice may be...it's nothing the Greens can fix, no matter how well considered their thinking may be.
  steve195 Train Controller


Moreover...many vehicles on the roads just have to be, delivery vans of the same CR@P people order from China, food delivery vans, tradies, and other essential services simply have no choice but to use the road system...
The Vinelander
If moving goods is so important, why don't we have truck/van only lanes on freeways? If PT could entice just a few percent of drivers out of their cars, then these 'essential services' could reach their destinations significantly faster.

As for tradies, hop on a citybound spark before 7am on a weekday and you will find it is full of construction workers.

The point is that improving PT doesn't reduce road congestion by getting delivery vans off the road, it does so by getting (mostly single occupant) cars off the road.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line

Moreover...many vehicles on the roads just have to be, delivery vans of the same CR@P people order from China, food delivery vans, tradies, and other essential services simply have no choice but to use the road system...If moving goods is so important, why don't we have truck/van only lanes on freeways? If PT could entice just a few percent of drivers out of their cars, then these 'essential services' could reach their destinations significantly faster.

As for tradies, hop on a citybound spark before 7am on a weekday and you will find it is full of construction workers.

The point is that improving PT doesn't reduce road congestion by getting delivery vans off the road, it does so by getting (mostly single occupant) cars off the road.
steve195

As you differentiate yourself...construction workers & tradies....two different animals with differing kinds of trades in differing localities.

Your'e contradicting yourself...delivery vans and trucks just have to be...and if you find yourself in one of these single occupant vehicles every day...then I ask, why Question


Mike.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
The trains are mostly full in peak in the three east coast capitals with all three inner core corridors nearly or in some cases at full capacity with no free slots, you don't need to create additional incentives for people to get out of their cars and into trains, build more train capacity and open new corridors to rail and the masses will come.

Off-peak is a different matter with excess capacity, but ticket prices are already heavily subsidised, however growth in inner city higher density living is driving growth in non-work use of PT.

Regards
Shane
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
There's very little 'excess capacity' Shane, as you'll see when you return. Due to off-peak trains operating at lower frequencies the trains are nearly as full as the peak services.

Mike.
  steve195 Train Controller


Moreover...many vehicles on the roads just have to be, delivery vans of the same CR@P people order from China, food delivery vans, tradies, and other essential services simply have no choice but to use the road system...If moving goods is so important, why don't we have truck/van only lanes on freeways? If PT could entice just a few percent of drivers out of their cars, then these 'essential services' could reach their destinations significantly faster.

As for tradies, hop on a citybound spark before 7am on a weekday and you will find it is full of construction workers.

The point is that improving PT doesn't reduce road congestion by getting delivery vans off the road, it does so by getting (mostly single occupant) cars off the road.
As you differentiate yourself...construction workers & tradies....two different animals with differing kinds of trades in differing localities.

Your'e contradicting yourself...delivery vans and trucks just have to be...and if you find yourself in one of these single occupant vehicles every day...then I ask, why Question


Mike.
The Vinelander
I find myself on buses.. stuck behind those single occupant vehicles every day Wink

Me saying that improving PT can reduce road congestion and that delivery vans and trucks have to be on the road are not contradictory statements.

Trucks and vans don't need shiny new billion dollar toll roads to travel on - they need fewer cars getting in their way on the roads we already have!
  allan Chief Commissioner

The problem is not the transport systems, it's the absurd rate of population growth.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
The problem is not the transport systems, it's the absurd rate of population growth.
allan
You want to try the one child policy?
  allan Chief Commissioner

The problem is not the transport systems, it's the absurd rate of population growth.
You want to try the one child policy?
Dangersdan707
We're pretty close to that as it is. Population growth is being fueled by immigration.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
To quote my parents 'Well when your stuck in peak hour traffic in park royal after driving home from Canberra you kind of wish the east-west link went ahead'.Why should you need to drive a car when you are a gunzel?
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
The problem is not the transport systems, it's the absurd rate of population growth.
You want to try the one child policy?
We're pretty close to that as it is. Population growth is being fueled by immigration.
allan
Aust Fertility rate is 1.9, replacement is 2.1 (children per woman), the gap and population growth filled by immigration.

(On the side, welfare based child allowances should be limited to 2 live pregnancies per woman as there is no need to fund higher than 2 when we have immigration as an option and its cheaper.)
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
There's very little 'excess capacity' Shane, as you'll see when you return. Due to off-peak trains operating at lower frequencies the trains are nearly as full as the peak services.

Mike.
The Vinelander
I think thats what I basically said.

So you don't need to provide incentives for people to get out of cars, fares are about right in peak at least. The issue is cost. Rail is expensive to build and ongoing to operate, hence the population can only afford so much construction and services. The subsidies in Oz are some of highest in the world, how do we make it more affordable to build and operate more?
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
The subsidies in Oz are some of highest in the world, how do we make it more affordable to build and operate more?
RTT_Rules

At some point...the bullet will have to be bitten...

'Superannuation assets totalled $2.6 trillion at the end of the December 2017 quarter'

https://www.superannuation.asn.au/resources/superannuation-statistics

Mike.
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
To quote my parents 'Well when your stuck in peak hour traffic in park royal after driving home from Canberra you kind of wish the east-west link went ahead'.Why should you need to drive a car when you are a gunzel?
Dangersdan707
Uhhh, kinda stupid if you're going that way around the city headed to the Eastern suburbs....
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
The subsidies in Oz are some of highest in the world, how do we make it more affordable to build and operate more?

At some point...the bullet will have to be bitten...

'Superannuation assets totalled $2.6 trillion at the end of the December 2017 quarter'

https://www.superannuation.asn.au/resources/superannuation-statistics

Mike.
The Vinelander
The super funds won't invest in something that doesn't provide a positive rate of return and the govt can borrow the money cheaper from other sources.

The only way to proceed with Super money is for higher fares and govt guarantees to fill the gap further.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
To quote my parents 'Well when your stuck in peak hour traffic in park royal after driving home from Canberra you kind of wish the east-west link went ahead'.Why should you need to drive a car when you are a gunzel?
Uhhh, kinda stupid if you're going that way around the city headed to the Eastern suburbs....
speedemon08
Trust Me! It wasn't my idea to take east link via park royal over City link and plus I didn't get to see any Qube trains at Appleton dock..

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