Has Facebook been permanently damaged with the data security fiasco?

 
Topic moved from Victoria by bevans on 13 Apr 2018 14:09
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I have been wanting to post about this for a while as the Cambridge Analytica issues have in my view cast some serious concerns over Facebook to point where corporations and individual users are concerned about how they move forward with the social media platform.

This has come as no surprise to me as I am aware Facebook each and every night sends data to certain agencies in Australia at their request and I would assume this happens all over the world.

Foxtel has already told the market this are slashing advertisement spending https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/media/foxtel-reacts-to-facebook-woes-by-slashing-ad-spend/news-story/e1de0cf503fd1941b0a9dcf83cfa9c52 with facebook.  I expect other firms to also follow suit.

I am aware of friends who have closed their facebook accounts and I am considering doing the same.

Facebook is damaged goods.

There will of course others who will continue to use facebook and risk their privacy.  As cambridge analytica proved, it takes only 34 likes from an individual across a range of topics to complete a psychological profile for the user.  This is what Cambridge Analytica achieved and used this information to generate news which was obviously targeted.

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  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
as someone called it a while ago ............. Farcebook
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: no longer in Sydney
Farcebook is a name that I have used, but I cannot claim to have been the first on RP to do so.

Now bevans, seeing as you brought this matter up - given that one of the login options for Railpage is via Facebook, what RP data in respect to those users does Facebook draw out of Railpage?

Would you now consider severing the link between Railpage and Facebook?


Yes, I am a Facebook user, but very sparingly, and it is NOT linked to any other Application, and I don't use it on my Mobile Phone (where installing Facebook just happens to link to lots of other apps - so beware). I got into FB by default, I went on a trip to Europe 6 years ago and one person took a heap of photos and said they would send me a link - which happened to be to FB and I had to login to see the photos. I didn't use it after that, and then 3 years back another function with younger relatives had the same result, but also some of them said I should use it for this and that, which I have, I have a grand total of 20 friends, all of whom I know personally, mostly relatives. And some of those younger relatives post just as often as one poster on RP creates new news topics!! Little do they realise how much they have shown to the world, but they have suddenly slowed down in the past few weeks.

So anyone who uses FB, be it on a Desktop or Mobile device (particularly the latter) should go in and check just what apps they have linked to FB - and sever such links now.

EDIT - And those with a Google Account should go through it with a fine tooth comb too - why do you get those ads splashed about in regards to things you have searched for or pages you have visited? Because your search history etc gets from Google to advertisers who tailor ads for Google to show you.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
And good luck to anyone that thinks they can come up with a psychological profile of me from data they collect over the internet. They are going to need it Razz
There are a lot more scarier things happening out there other than Facebook and Cambridge Analytica, although admittedly I wouldn't want any of the scum that work for the latter as my neighbour.

RP is no better with their continuing promotion of the RRA's rants as 'news'.
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
as someone called it a while ago ............. Farcebook
Pressman
I prefer Faecesbook! Laughing
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
I think FB had its own problems before this. We have discussed here previously that the adverts and other crap are impacting on user experience. In particular many (including some friends of mine) use it as a one eyed political advertising media. I use FB to store and share my family holidays and events plus other activities such as planning events etc and then a friend posts often quite harshly and poorly written political crap (and no I don't care if LNP or ALP or anti-Trump).  

Overall I've seen FB declining in usage by friends for photo sharing, not sure for this reason or just the photos etc.

As for info sharing, I don't think that many care too much as their profile is too limited in personal details and/or tight privacy settings.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Not on Facebook and now very glad I am not.
  Groundrelay Deputy Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
FB will survive until something more popular takes over.

The majority of people don't know and/or don't care. Same with most issues in the world.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

I think permanent damage is possible, but the question is now over the depth of the damage.

I don't think it's going to be too bad in the long term. Most of the people who are getting worked up over this are people who have already decided they don't like Facebook (whether they have used it or not) and most people who do like Facebook still do. There might be a handful of people who might log off over this, but not many.

The fact is that 99% of people don't really care about privacy until theirs is breached in a way which causes them some direct inconvenience. This approach has been reinforced by some well-meaning idiots who have decided the best way to respond to the Cambridge Analytica scandal would be to get in the media and repeat the normal (but irrelevant) basic password security advice about not passwords on multiple websites etc.
  Dangersdan707 Deputy Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
FB will survive until something more popular takes over.

The majority of people don't know and/or don't care. Same with most issues in the world.
Groundrelay
unless they buy out their opposition as they have done with Instagram, snapchat, WeChat and WhatsApp
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
FB will survive until something more popular takes over.

The majority of people don't know and/or don't care. Same with most issues in the world.
unless they buy out their opposition as they have done with Instagram, snapchat, WeChat and WhatsApp
Dangersdan707
Which is how most industries operate. Big established players buy out the up and coming innovators as big industry typically strangulates innovation with its own internal bureaucracy.  

I've noticed many friends using Instagram more as the photos cannot be downloaded and its free of the FB political trolls, advertising and other BS. BAsically what FB used to be like.

Snapchat, I just don't get it unless you are having an affair. I had someone try and explain how it was more exciting the Whatsapp. I said how. You type message in one, you do in another, but in Snapchat it evaporates automatically. How is this more exciting?

WhatsApp has done very well to become the almost standard now to communicate electronically relegating email to snail mail status of only being used more and more for "official" communication.
  GS4 Junior Train Controller

I'm surprised that lots of people are surprised.......

I did a business degree at QUT and one of the units had a strong focus on Facebook and similar sites.  There was no secret at all that FB sold information. The little scrap of advertising on their pages is a portion only of their revenue.  

An interesting data gathering method not mentioned by the media currently was users photographs. Apparently FB has (or had) paid employees that were assigned users photos and literally counted individual items, for example a party photo would reveal XXXX , XXXX, Fosters , white wine , XXXX , Bundy Rum , Doritos, Cheesells , Winfield Blues, ....... it just went on and on.  This is where they get data from people who are not even on FB. As your cameras and phones deliver higher and higher quality photos (with background data such as EOS6D GPS co-ordinates for each photo) and photo recognition software getting more advanced you will continue to provide saleable data.

The reason they did this was for reliable data. Surveying can get data but people tend to say what they would like but not what they actually spend their money on. Just simple observation reveals the cold hard truth.

FB did not build their web site costing million upon millions out of the goodness of their hearts just so we could share videos of cats falling in a swimming pool.

Facebook is far from alone , Myspace, Photo sharing sites including Flickr, Google and other search engines, Ebay, Forums, you name it they sell data.

The one that surprised me was at least one unidentified, (by QUT), car servicing company sells data to our federal government and fuel companies on how cars are being driven.  Next time you are wondering why petrol is so dear and half the cars race off from the traffic lights next to you, black smoke  belching from their exhausts, remember they just sent oil companies and the govt a message that although we complain and whine fuel is so expensive in reality most people are not  trying to save it.


I do have a solution for this dilemma ..... take as many train photos as you can and put them the net. Its all we can do to break the data gatherers non train loving minds !
  Valvegear The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Who needs Facebook anyway? I don't feel deprived just because I've never used it.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Who needs Facebook anyway? I don't feel deprived just because I've never used it.
Valvegear
I fully agree and I've never felt deprived or left out in the slightest.

But then I grew up in a world before mobile phones and the internet
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Who needs Facebook anyway? I don't feel deprived just because I've never used it.
I fully agree and I've never felt deprived or left out in the slightest.

But then I grew up in a world before mobile phones and the internet
Pressman
I don't think its a FB issue as such rather FB has been the first to be publicly dragged to US Congress as it has over 1B users an probably the most obvious.

FB has its place in life, its changed from a few years back. People use it differently. Gone are the days of photos of everything thing they did (my view). But it does come in handy for a number of things including keeping in touch. I think WhatsApp and similar have taken over the "instant Messaging" that FB used to have alot of.

I use FB for my family Album, each trip or major event has its own album and I link that with whom I want to share it with, but I don't share all and I don't share all to all. These days many of us take so many pictures and movies it can be hard to keep track of it all. Gone were the days where you came back from holidays and got a few rolls of photos developed from a recent holiday then placed the good ones (few) into a photo album to sit on the shelf and bring out when visitors came.  At one stage I thought of switching to another platform as my parents and one friend don't use FB, but for now FB just seems easier.

Congress is saying FB needs competition, it had competition, they gave up! FB is one of those things that so many people use because so many of their friends also use, so follow the leader type stuff. I avoided joining Instagram because I didn't want another platform to share stuff with, one was enough.

Yes I too grew up without a mobile and internet, but I also grew up without a 55inch HDTV with surround sound and like FB, it also has its advantages. Each to there own!
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
I'm surprised that lots of people are surprised.......

I did a business degree at QUT and one of the units had a strong focus on Facebook and similar sites.  There was no secret at all that FB sold information. The little scrap of advertising on their pages is a portion only of their revenue.  

An interesting data gathering method not mentioned by the media currently was users photographs. Apparently FB has (or had) paid employees that were assigned users photos and literally counted individual items, for example a party photo would reveal XXXX , XXXX, Fosters , white wine , XXXX , Bundy Rum , Doritos, Cheesells , Winfield Blues, ....... it just went on and on.  This is where they get data from people who are not even on FB. As your cameras and phones deliver higher and higher quality photos (with background data such as EOS6D GPS co-ordinates for each photo) and photo recognition software getting more advanced you will continue to provide saleable data.

The reason they did this was for reliable data. Surveying can get data but people tend to say what they would like but not what they actually spend their money on. Just simple observation reveals the cold hard truth.

FB did not build their web site costing million upon millions out of the goodness of their hearts just so we could share videos of cats falling in a swimming pool.

Facebook is far from alone , Myspace, Photo sharing sites including Flickr, Google and other search engines, Ebay, Forums, you name it they sell data.

The one that surprised me was at least one unidentified, (by QUT), car servicing company sells data to our federal government and fuel companies on how cars are being driven.  Next time you are wondering why petrol is so dear and half the cars race off from the traffic lights next to you, black smoke  belching from their exhausts, remember they just sent oil companies and the govt a message that although we complain and whine fuel is so expensive in reality most people are not  trying to save it.


I do have a solution for this dilemma ..... take as many train photos as you can and put them the net. Its all we can do to break the data gatherers non train loving minds !
GS4
Watch a few futuristic Sci-Fi movies and TV series from before the Internet was invented, and the one thing that writers had in common was the future was about "information", information = power.

These days data and data analysis is fast becoming the backbone of life. I think people would be very surprised on how much data is known about their movement and habits if only for commercial purposes. For example Tesla monitor the live performance of their cars all round the world, Google Monitors traffic movement and road congestion live, airlines monitor everything you do on their ISE and adjust movies and shows accordingly. TV via streaming is the same.

Looking at rail, the new Sydney Metro will monitor gate entrances and exits live and adjust train frequencies with only a minimal 30min to 60min delay. Unlike now when we wait for the new timetable every few years and then complain when it stuffs up!
  Dangersdan707 Deputy Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Who needs Facebook anyway? I don't feel deprived just because I've never used it.
I fully agree and I've never felt deprived or left out in the slightest.

But then I grew up in a world before mobile phones and the internet
Pressman
I Fully agree and I have Grown up in a world were mobile phones and the internet have existed my entire life and most people my age have there face shoved into Mobile Phones using the internet for pointless things i.e Instagram and snapchat. A giant waste of time if you ask me.
  GS4 Junior Train Controller

Watch a few futuristic Sci-Fi movies and TV series from before the Internet was invented, and the one thing that writers had in common was the future was about "information", information = power.

These days data and data analysis is fast becoming the backbone of life. I think people would be very surprised on how much data is known about their movement and habits if only for commercial purposes. For example Tesla monitor the live performance of their cars all round the world, Google Monitors traffic movement and road congestion live, airlines monitor everything you do on their ISE and adjust movies and shows accordingly. TV via streaming is the same.

Looking at rail, the new Sydney Metro will monitor gate entrances and exits live and adjust train frequencies with only a minimal 30min to 60min delay. Unlike now when we wait for the new timetable every few years and then complain when it stuffs up!
RTT_Rules
If the FB thing has upset people in regard to privacy it should be quite a storm when the public start paying attention to how car rego in Australia will be changing.

Very early this year SBS did a story on how state and federal transport ministers met to discuss a national overhaul of all vehicle registrations. I forget who the (brave) pollie was who was honest enough to say how vehicle rego was a small part of revenue and the fuel excise and taxes where a massive part of revenue.
He went on to say how electric cars will be in considerable numbers on Australian roads within 5 years and the loss of fuel price revenue will not be a loss the country could afford. To counter this they expected to change to a GPS based user pays rego scheme. There was scant details of how this change would occur except for the suggestion that electric cars would be changed first. My impression was that hybrids would be in the Worst of both worlds situations.

Then in mid February the bulk of state ministers , PM and business leaders went on their trade mission to the USA. Again SBS mentioned briefly that one of the items of discussion with the USA was their similar loss of fuel tax revenue and the availability of technology to track vehicles in a user pays plan.

If we think electric cars are a way off have a look at Teslas cars, US$35,000 each and "slowly" producing them at 2000 per week. Elon Musk is literally working overtime to get this figure up to 6000 per week. Thats currently 2000 cars per week of lost fuel tax money.

The implication is that ordinary Australians will be tracked wherever they go, by car at least.
Want privacy to drive wherever you want ........ nope. A mate in the Qld Police said the insurance industry was 100% for tracking cars. He was not sure if speeding tickets could be issued via the GPS but expected at some time they would. The only real police traffic duty would eventually become checking whether vehicles were registered or had a tracker.

My view is that the self driving car is a decade or two off but the "self regulating" car (speed and traffic light controlled) is much closer than we realise.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
If the FB thing has upset people in regard to privacy it should be quite a storm when the public start paying attention to how car rego in Australia will be changing.



My view is that the self driving car is a decade or two off but the "self regulating" car (speed and traffic light controlled) is much closer than we realise.
GS4
Maybe closer than that, rent a car in Australia and the rental company knows exactly where their car is at any time. All rentals are fitted with GPS trackers and they also have an immobilisation facility, don't return the car on time and they can immobilise it.

Some companies have GPS tracking on their fleet vehicles.
As an example, at work we do work for a mining company, and the boss has a deal with them to store some machinery in our factory yard, recently the company delivered a truck that was to have certain repairs done to it.
Our storeman moved the truck to another location within the yard (moved less than 100metres)
Within 5 minutes the boss got a gruff phone call from the client "Who is driving our vehicle????"
Because the company has the truck flagged as stored, their tracking system instantly flagged the movement as unauthorised.
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
Some companies have GPS tracking on their fleet vehicles.
Pressman
The rationale for this is usually "operator safety". Wink Of course there are a number of other benefits too.

If I owned a fleet of vehicles/plant, I'd be installing GPS tracking.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
A number of years ago I was told some companies tracked their fleet vehicles and if the driver was off course he got a call on the radio/phone.

I agree, we are being slow to maximise the technology on private vehicles. Police should have the power to switch off an engine in a vhecile they are chasing and it will come. Drivers breaking basic road laws should also be automatically reportable by the car itself. The insurance industry will be the leader to get this rolled out by simply saying you want cheaper insurance, we want vehicle camera and Blackbox/GPS tracking.

Back OT, a few years back I read the book, "the facebook effect". This was 2010 and how much FB had changed society in its short history. For example FB has been blamed for help starting the Arab Spring as it enabled people to communicate rapidly.  Yesterday an article popped up on a survey of why French Women have basically stopped sunbaking topless compared to 20 years ago. The likes of St Tropez etc used to be common on crowded beaches and I know on beaches in the north of Eu younger women used to be natural to swim topless to the point one girl I knew said she didn't own a bikini top when living in Europe, if she wanted to be modest it was a one peice. However this has dramatically changed in one generation thanks to they say Facebook and similar girls not caring about who sees their boobs on a beach, but they don't want the topless photos ending up on various forms of social media and likes of Whatsapp.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Let's now try and avoid being held accountable. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-20/facebook-to-move-1.5-billion-users-out-of-reach-new-eu-privacy/9678842

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