Caulfield-Chadstone-Rowville Tram line proposed

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 10 Apr 2018 07:59
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
Recall this idea too, a tram over a recently grade separated crossing with the Frankston line.

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  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
If this light rail is to service Caulfield, Chadstone and Monash Clayton before heading to Rowville, then I don't see the point in running down North Rd at all. Just go straight down Princes Hwy, and then turn into Wellington Rd and off you go.

North Rd is just a needless diversion that would add an unwanted increase in travel times.

Keep it as a simple, fast, high frequency, direct route with stops spaced appropriately. That is how you will get people to leave their cars at home.
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
The idea is to have a second route to Monash along North road, this would be a cross suburban route.
  potatoinmymouth Junior Train Controller

$475 million in the federal budget for this - but it has to be heavy rail. Yep, you read that correctly.
  n459L1150 Junior Train Controller

Location: Echuca
I'm surprised that "Dan the Builder" doesn't just sky-rail the extension right down the middle of the road
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
I'm surprised that "Dan the Builder" doesn't just sky-rail the extension right down the middle of the road
n459L1150

This would really make the most sense given heavy rail is the only real option and then swing the line where after Monash at Clayton?
  skitz Chief Commissioner

$475 million in the federal budget for this - but it has to be heavy rail. Yep, you read that correctly.
potatoinmymouth
Wait for it - 'the line cannot be heavy rail due to no capacity on the Dandenong Corridor'Rolling Eyes
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
The feds will only fund a real connection being heavy rail.  Says as much in the press release.
  reubstar6 Junior Train Controller

I actually don't mind this from the feds. Metro 1 should provide enough space for the Rowville line short term, and if two more tracks can be squeezed through you could make all the Cranbourne/Pakenham speed through the inner stations along with V/Lines and have the Rowville line service the inner stations.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
I actually don't mind this from the feds. Metro 1 should provide enough space for the Rowville line short term, and if two more tracks can be squeezed through you could make all the Cranbourne/Pakenham speed through the inner stations along with V/Lines and have the Rowville line service the inner stations.
reubstar6
No - the opportunity was missed with grade separation. They decided at that time no provision for third or fourth track - therefore the Dandy line will be running at fully capacity all the time - certainly no room for an extra train.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
I actually don't mind this from the feds. Metro 1 should provide enough space for the Rowville line short term, and if two more tracks can be squeezed through you could make all the Cranbourne/Pakenham speed through the inner stations along with V/Lines and have the Rowville line service the inner stations.
No - the opportunity was missed with grade separation. They decided at that time no provision for third or fourth track - therefore the Dandy line will be running at fully capacity all the time - certainly no room for an extra train.
don_dunstan
They could build it as part of the project...
  John.Z Junior Train Controller

I actually don't mind this from the feds. Metro 1 should provide enough space for the Rowville line short term, and if two more tracks can be squeezed through you could make all the Cranbourne/Pakenham speed through the inner stations along with V/Lines and have the Rowville line service the inner stations.
No - the opportunity was missed with grade separation. They decided at that time no provision for third or fourth track - therefore the Dandy line will be running at fully capacity all the time - certainly no room for an extra train.
They could build it as part of the project...
railblogger
Now now. If they couldn't do it the first time, what says they will want to do it the 2nd?
  n459L1150 Junior Train Controller

Location: Echuca
I'm surprised that "Dan the Builder" doesn't just sky-rail the extension right down the middle of the road

This would really make the most sense given heavy rail is the only real option and then swing the line where after Monash at Clayton?
x31
I hadn't thought of that, maybe tunnel over to wheelers hill area and then above ground to Rowville?
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Lets sum this up:
1. The Frankston line is to be extended to Baxter. This will bump up patronage on this line, which in turn will require more trains to run on it.
2. Post METRO 1, More services are expected to run to both Cranbourne and Pakenham, including a possible extension to Clyde, also equalling more trains.
3. Rowville to receive an all new rail line from Caulfield. This will equal a lot more trains.
4. There are no plans for extra track capacity between Caulfield and South Yarra (METRO 1 Tunnel's South Eastern portal)

This will not work, and I haven't even got to V/Line and Freight yet.

Caulfield to South Yarra. A very similar problem we have on the other side of the town with Sunshine to South Kensington.

The original plans for METRO 1 were to go from Caulfield to Sth Kensington, instead we are getting the cut down version. Maybe instead we should have got the supersized version of METRO 1 all of the way from Albion to Oakleigh.

Oh well, not possible now. Still doesn't explain how they are going to squeeze all of these services on these tracks.
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
I'm an alumni
You are not; you are an alumnus - there's only one of you.
Oh yeah, plural.
don_dunstan
- Give me a martinus.
- You mean martini.
- If I want two, I'll ask for them.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
I actually don't mind this from the feds. Metro 1 should provide enough space for the Rowville line short term, and if two more tracks can be squeezed through you could make all the Cranbourne/Pakenham speed through the inner stations along with V/Lines and have the Rowville line service the inner stations.
No - the opportunity was missed with grade separation. They decided at that time no provision for third or fourth track - therefore the Dandy line will be running at fully capacity all the time - certainly no room for an extra train.
They could build it as part of the project...
railblogger
I thought that too but you are looking at major $$$ and (most of all) MAJOR MAJOR NIMBY grief in the light of the fact that 'skyrail' has been the subject of vocal protests. I don't think you could trench any new lines because they'd be too close to the piles of the new viaducts so you'd be talking about building more 'skyrail' which would send people along that corridor into a frenzy - you'd probably also be talking about land acquisitions for a four-track corridor which they didn't have to do (much) with the almost-completed existing project.

It's a shame they've committed the land under the viaducts to 'community use' - they would have been good express track diversions!

It's crazy in this day and age that the Dandenong line is two tracks with no express track like Frankston and Ringwood - VIC governments in the past have been stacking people out that way with massive spending on the Monash to compensate but nothing at all to increase capacity on that very long rail corridor growing all the time.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
I actually don't mind this from the feds. Metro 1 should provide enough space for the Rowville line short term, and if two more tracks can be squeezed through you could make all the Cranbourne/Pakenham speed through the inner stations along with V/Lines and have the Rowville line service the inner stations.
No - the opportunity was missed with grade separation. They decided at that time no provision for third or fourth track - therefore the Dandy line will be running at fully capacity all the time - certainly no room for an extra train.
They could build it as part of the project...
I thought that too but you are looking at major $$$ and (most of all) MAJOR MAJOR NIMBY grief in the light of the fact that 'skyrail' has been the subject of vocal protests. I don't think you could trench any new lines because they'd be too close to the piles of the new viaducts so you'd be talking about building more 'skyrail' which would send people along that corridor into a frenzy - you'd probably also be talking about land acquisitions for a four-track corridor which they didn't have to do (much) with the almost-completed existing project.

It's a shame they've committed the land under the viaducts to 'community use' - they would have been good express track diversions!

It's crazy in this day and age that the Dandenong line is two tracks with no express track like Frankston and Ringwood - VIC governments in the past have been stacking people out that way with massive spending on the Monash to compensate but nothing at all to increase capacity on that very long rail corridor growing all the time.
don_dunstan
The NIMBY's already know that another 2 elevated tracks are coming, they even have artist Illustrations, showing a US style double stack superfreighter running along the viaduct (just to alarm people)

The Melbourne - Pakenham line Is stuffed under the current operating conditions, On Monday I traveled on the 17:33 down Traralgon service, that took 100 minutes to get to Pakenham (timetabled 88 minutes for the 58 km journey) Past the new train depot construction site the Velocity's could only than stretch their legs to full line speed.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
I actually don't mind this from the feds. Metro 1 should provide enough space for the Rowville line short term, and if two more tracks can be squeezed through you could make all the Cranbourne/Pakenham speed through the inner stations along with V/Lines and have the Rowville line service the inner stations.
reubstar6
The passenger number forecasts for the Dandenong - Melbourne section would completely deny any train access for another line to join In ! unless Monash/Rowville was just a shuttle train (like Berlin's U55 line)
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
The NIMBY's already know that another 2 elevated tracks are coming, they even have artist Illustrations, showing a US style double stack superfreighter running along the viaduct (just to alarm people)

The Melbourne - Pakenham line Is stuffed under the current operating conditions, On Monday I traveled on the 17:33 down Traralgon service, that took 100 minutes to get to Pakenham (timetabled 88 minutes for the 58 km journey) Past the new train depot construction site the Velocity's could only than stretch their legs to full line speed.
Nightfire
I used to live in Prahran and work in Dandenong - even though I was travelling counter-peak it was always a nightmare regardless of whether you drove or took the train. That line has clearly been running at full capacity PLUS Gippsland trains crawling behind each suburban train. Brumby promised to triplcate the line and then quietly buried the idea putting all the money into expanding that traffic sewer known as the Monash instead.

The train service is truly appalling - in this day and age Melbourne is so big (100km from Pakenham to Melton) that it really requires a network of express trains running over the top of the existing 'stops all stations' trains. But that would make too much sense.
  skitz Chief Commissioner

I actually don't mind this from the feds. Metro 1 should provide enough space for the Rowville line short term, and if two more tracks can be squeezed through you could make all the Cranbourne/Pakenham speed through the inner stations along with V/Lines and have the Rowville line service the inner stations.
No - the opportunity was missed with grade separation. They decided at that time no provision for third or fourth track - therefore the Dandy line will be running at fully capacity all the time - certainly no room for an extra train.
They could build it as part of the project...
I thought that too but you are looking at major $$$ and (most of all) MAJOR MAJOR NIMBY grief in the light of the fact that 'skyrail' has been the subject of vocal protests. I don't think you could trench any new lines because they'd be too close to the piles of the new viaducts so you'd be talking about building more 'skyrail' which would send people along that corridor into a frenzy - you'd probably also be talking about land acquisitions for a four-track corridor which they didn't have to do (much) with the almost-completed existing project.

It's a shame they've committed the land under the viaducts to 'community use' - they would have been good express track diversions!

It's crazy in this day and age that the Dandenong line is two tracks with no express track like Frankston and Ringwood - VIC governments in the past have been stacking people out that way with massive spending on the Monash to compensate but nothing at all to increase capacity on that very long rail corridor growing all the time.
The NIMBY's already know that another 2 elevated tracks are coming, they even have artist Illustrations, showing a US style double stack superfreighter running along the viaduct (just to alarm people)

The Melbourne - Pakenham line Is stuffed under the current operating conditions, On Monday I traveled on the 17:33 down Traralgon service, that took 100 minutes to get to Pakenham (timetabled 88 minutes for the 58 km journey) Past the new train depot construction site the Velocity's could only than stretch their legs to full line speed.
Nightfire
My Tractor, given a free run up the emergency lane, would beat it.  Progress hey.  

As for stretching the Velocity's legs past Pakenham, you have to be joking.  With sheds about 5km apart it does not get the chance.   Only places top speed is obtained is momentarily before Nar Nar Goon (like seconds!), Maybe between Bunyip and Longwarry (again, its measured in seconds) and Between Warragul and Yarragon.   Pathetic use of medium speed infrastructure.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
As for stretching the Velocity's legs past Pakenham, you have to be joking.  With sheds about 5km apart it does not get the chance.   Only places top speed is obtained is momentarily before Nar Nar Goon (like seconds!), Maybe between Bunyip and Longwarry (again, its measured in seconds) and Between Warragul and Yarragon.   Pathetic use of medium speed infrastructure.
skitz
Correct top line speed only lasts for a few seconds, If top speed was capped at 130 km/h there would probably be no Impact on the timetable.
  skitz Chief Commissioner

As for stretching the Velocity's legs past Pakenham, you have to be joking.  With sheds about 5km apart it does not get the chance.   Only places top speed is obtained is momentarily before Nar Nar Goon (like seconds!), Maybe between Bunyip and Longwarry (again, its measured in seconds) and Between Warragul and Yarragon.   Pathetic use of medium speed infrastructure.
Correct top line speed only lasts for a few seconds, If top speed was capped at 130 km/h there would probably be no Impact on the timetable.
Nightfire
The evidence is there already.  The 14:20 service on the down is operated by Sprinters, stopping all sheds.  There is a difference, to Trafalgar its about five minutes.   Ooooooooh, five minutes.
  gobillino Junior Train Controller

Location: Melbourne
The feds will only fund a real connection being heavy rail.  Says as much in the press release.
x31
Doesn't say it anywhere I've read. Rather the feds think is SHOULD be heavy rail, and want that considered as part of the current planning work. A bit of posturing, and nothing more, if you ask me. The state will win out on this - it will be light rail

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