Murray Basin standardisation

 
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
It's possible to see the reverse to the current situation with the Albury SG line being the orphan to one where the Gippsland line is the orphan.
Using creative thinking, the Geelong line becomes electrified and is run as a part of the Metro system. [As far as Waurn Ponds!] As part of the new line to the airport, Bendigo line becomes SG! [ Sunbury bypassed] Shepp does as well with the link from the airport through to Wallan. Ballarat line becomes SG, [Metro sparks to Melton]  as it has the SG maintenance facility. Warnabool line from Geelong over to SG.
Then only Gippsland remains BG because of the long run through the Eastern suburbs Metro line! [A creative solution is needed here as well]
With a strategic plan, surly this is doable over a predetermined period of planning and financing. [Plus the job creation that would go with such a program!! ]
Thoughts????
Inland_Sailor
What are you on? Could I have some too?

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  Lockspike Deputy Commissioner

It's possible to see the reverse to the current situation with the Albury SG line being the orphan to one where the Gippsland line is the orphan.
Using creative thinking, the Geelong line becomes electrified and is run as a part of the Metro system. [As far as Waurn Ponds!] As part of the new line to the airport, Bendigo line becomes SG! [ Sunbury bypassed] Shepp does as well with the link from the airport through to Wallan. Ballarat line becomes SG, [Metro sparks to Melton]  as it has the SG maintenance facility. Warnabool line from Geelong over to SG.
Then only Gippsland remains BG because of the long run through the Eastern suburbs Metro line! [A creative solution is needed here as well]
With a strategic plan, surly this is doable over a predetermined period of planning and financing. [Plus the job creation that would go with such a program!! ]
Thoughts????
Inland_Sailor
Enlightened thinking which will be resolutely resisted, and not on the basis of cost..., although that will be used as the justification
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Still lots of pics/vids of grain trains on the Sea Lake and Manangatang branches - how much is left?

Can anyone provide an update as to when each of the branches is booked for occupation?  Someone posted that one was going to be done first, then the other.  Maybe @Carnot?
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Still lots of pics/vids of grain trains on the Sea Lake and Manangatang branches - how much is left?

Can anyone provide an update as to when each of the branches is booked for occupation?  Someone posted that one was going to be done first, then the other.  Maybe @Carnot?
james.au
Last I heard was that Sea Lake to Korong Vale was going to be done first, then Manangatang - Dunolly & Ballarat - Gheringhap.  1st June was kicked around as a possible start date, but who knows given the bun-fight over Stage 2?

Heaps of grain at Quambatook still I believe.  It's one of the biggest Graincorp sites in the State (received over 100000 tonnes last harvest).

I think the last of the Manangatang container trains has happened.  Speculation of course....
  darcycammo Chief Train Controller

Location: cockatoo vic
The BG fruity ran last night Monday 21st
  Jack Le Lievre Assistant Commissioner

Location: Moolap Station, Vic
The BG fruity ran last night Monday 21st
darcycammo
Not unless it ran via Baccus Marsh, as G520(FA)+X48 were through Gheringhap at 19:05 as 7901V. The Last Up B/G 9102 through Gheringhap was on Friday the 11th of May led by X558+H1+X43(FA)+XR553, the last B/G Down 9101 through Gheringhap was on Thursday the 10th of May led by XR553+XR558+X43(FA)+H1.

I am not sure if there are meant to be any others on B/G or not.

Regards,

Jack
  cbinyon Chief Train Controller

Location: London, England
I thought the same thing when someone posted it as an X and G duo. It was SG X48 & G520. BL31 & 33 on the DN this arvo.
  Jack Le Lievre Assistant Commissioner

Location: Moolap Station, Vic
I thought the same thing when someone posted it as an X and G duo. It was SG X48 & G520. BL31 & 33 on the DN this arvo.
cbinyon
7901V & 7902V both performed a Crew Change and Crossed at Gheringhap this afternoon.
  MetroFemme Assistant Commissioner

There is an alternate thread on here which questions the project from the start including the benefits. From an outsider on this project but not on others again the network has been crippled by idiots who manage scope. What should have been an opportunity to sell benefits of uplifts has now begun to turn sour.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Oh Hanrahans. We'll all be rooned
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
There is an alternate thread on here which questions the project from the start including the benefits. From an outsider on this project but not on others again the network has been crippled by idiots who manage scope. What should have been an opportunity to sell benefits of uplifts has now begun to turn sour.
MetroFemme
Calling people idiots is a tad harsh. I'm sure there isn't a single idiot among them. Some of them may be out of their depth and / or not understand the issues but that does not make them idiots.

The biggest problem with scope change / reduction on projects like this is Government. They control the purse strings, love making big announcements for the press but go to jelly when it comes to stumping up the requisite $$$ to do the job properly. RRL is a classic example of that if you care to read the history of that project it gives great insight into how scope reduction and penny pinching can devalue and derail a good idea.

And then there is you and I, the taxpayers who as @woodford so often reminds us want to live a champagne lifestyle on a light beer budget. ie we don't want to pay the taxes required to fund services.

MBS is a great project designed to help our agricultural exports remain competitive. Agriculture has really stepped up to do the heavy lifting in the economy aided by the same free trade agreements that have helped to kill manufacturing.

They need projects like MBS and they need them to be done well not half arsed.

BG
  skitz Chief Commissioner

There is an alternate thread on here which questions the project from the start including the benefits. From an outsider on this project but not on others again the network has been crippled by idiots who manage scope. What should have been an opportunity to sell benefits of uplifts has now begun to turn sour.
Calling people idiots is a tad harsh. I'm sure there isn't a single idiot among them. Some of them may be out of their depth and / or not understand the issues but that does not make them idiots.

The biggest problem with scope change / reduction on projects like this is Government. They control the purse strings, love making big announcements for the press but go to jelly when it comes to stumping up the requisite $$$ to do the job properly. RRL is a classic example of that if you care to read the history of that project it gives great insight into how scope reduction and penny pinching can devalue and derail a good idea.

And then there is you and I, the taxpayers who as @woodford so often reminds us want to live a champagne lifestyle on a light beer budget. ie we don't want to pay the taxes required to fund services.

MBS is a great project designed to help our agricultural exports remain competitive. Agriculture has really stepped up to do the heavy lifting in the economy aided by the same free trade agreements that have helped to kill manufacturing.

They need projects like MBS and they need them to be done well not half arsed.

BG
BrentonGolding
Not disagreeing with the need of the project, there is due concern to the efficiency of those governing and delivering the scope.  Where is the accountability?

Having seen the levels of bureaucracy in combination with on overdose of Victorian ego, the probability of a good result is not good.  Just imagine Utopia (the show), only with three more layers of department and real ego aggression in the relationships - that's where the reality is.  Its not conducive of smart and innovative solutions at efficient cost.

The results thus far are most underwhelming.  Delivered late, chronic speed restrictions, unfinished, key aspects of asset life extension/care not addressed.    So far its been a high cost exercise in the delivery of mediocrity.   Yet who is accountable?

As for the project goals, as it currently stands the run-time and run-time reliability from Mildura to Melbourne has blown out by how far?  There is noting of note to celebrate, especially when one considers cost and resulting performance.

Unfortunately, this is Victoria.  I don't see any revolutionary leadership filtering through the ranks as a point of future inspiration.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Not disagreeing with the need of the project, there is due concern to the efficiency of those governing and delivering the scope.  Where is the accountability?
skitz
Couldn't agree more skitz, my point was that it doesn't make people idiots and poor project delivery is not a valid reason to  question the merits of the original project. The MBS was originally a Nats idea and it is designed to benefit the rural sector and I see a fair bit of city V country in the criticism of the project especially in the questioning of it's merits. Anyone how knows anything about rail gauge history in Aus knows that many of these lines should have been converted to SG years ago.

As for the accountability I don't think we will see any until the Victorian Auditor General's Office dains to take a look at it.

Unfortunately the government and the transport minister are only interested in positive media spin and will never actually admit that something isn't going right.

BG
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
There is an alternate thread on here which questions the project from the start including the benefits. From an outsider on this project but not on others again the network has been crippled by idiots who manage scope. What should have been an opportunity to sell benefits of uplifts has now begun to turn sour.
MetroFemme

Clearly there are many worrying things about this project being discussed on this thread and you are right this should have been a marquee project for the government if you believe the amount of spin from the minister.

It is bewildering the number of decisions which have been made which will actually reduce capacity on the line which was not the original intent of the project?
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
The cynic in me thinks that the scope will get changed after the election - usual excuses - cost blowouts, other priorities etc.

In the meantime, Sea Lake and Manangatang will get done (we hope), and that's it until November. The third rail will remain between Maryborough and Dunolly (unless the rail itself is useful elsewhere) as removing it costs money.

Murray Basin converted to SG - box ticked, promise fulfilled.

The extra time and distance via Pyrenees Loop will of course be kept quiet for as long as possible - until Operators start making noise.

Then after November it's a whole new ball game in regard to the Gheringhap to Maryborough portion as well as maybe Ballarat to Ararat (which was never in the original scope) and the "Connection" at Ararat.

The cynic does not have any sources for the above of course.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
I like ( and use!) the cynical approach, and appreciate the definition which I once heard:- "A cynic is a person who smells flowers and immediately looks for the funeral."
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
The cynic in me thinks that the scope will get changed after the election - usual excuses - cost blowouts, other priorities etc.

In the meantime, Sea Lake and Manangatang will get done (we hope), and that's it until November. The third rail will remain between Maryborough and Dunolly (unless the rail itself is useful elsewhere) as removing it costs money.

Murray Basin converted to SG - box ticked, promise fulfilled.

The extra time and distance via Pyrenees Loop will of course be kept quiet for as long as possible - until Operators start making noise.

Then after November it's a whole new ball game in regard to the Gheringhap to Maryborough portion as well as maybe Ballarat to Ararat (which was never in the original scope) and the "Connection" at Ararat.

The cynic does not have any sources for the above of course.
mikesyd
Are you suspecting that they dont want to announce changes that could threaten passenger services and have the Ararat/Ballarat communities at risk in the election?

The other thing that is coming up is the Overland subsidy.  That I think is soon coming up for renewal - and political mishmash.
  skitz Chief Commissioner

The cynic in me thinks that the scope will get changed after the election - usual excuses - cost blowouts, other priorities etc.

In the meantime, Sea Lake and Manangatang will get done (we hope), and that's it until November. The third rail will remain between Maryborough and Dunolly (unless the rail itself is useful elsewhere) as removing it costs money.

Murray Basin converted to SG - box ticked, promise fulfilled.

The extra time and distance via Pyrenees Loop will of course be kept quiet for as long as possible - until Operators start making noise.

Then after November it's a whole new ball game in regard to the Gheringhap to Maryborough portion as well as maybe Ballarat to Ararat (which was never in the original scope) and the "Connection" at Ararat.

The cynic does not have any sources for the above of course.
Are you suspecting that they dont want to announce changes that could threaten passenger services and have the Ararat/Ballarat communities at risk in the election?

The other thing that is coming up is the Overland subsidy.  That I think is soon coming up for renewal - and political mishmash.
james.au
Oh goodie!  The Overland can run via Ballarat again!  (yippie skippie, prancing through the meadow).

Sorry, sarcasm release, back to normal programming...................

The SG only beyond Ballarat of course has immediate ramifications to the splitting of the Velocity Fleet and their orphaned servicing needs (not that its that hard).  One would assume Ballarat East is the prime location for the Velocity servicing on SG.

Running a third rail from Ballarat to Maryborough is just ludicrous for one rail car per day each way.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Oh goodie!  The Overland can run via Ballarat again!  (yippie skippie, prancing through the meadow).

Sorry, sarcasm release, back to normal programming...................

The SG only beyond Ballarat of course has immediate ramifications to the splitting of the Velocity Fleet and their orphaned servicing needs (not that its that hard).  One would assume Ballarat East is the prime location for the Velocity servicing on SG.

Running a third rail from Ballarat to Maryborough is just ludicrous for one rail car per day each way.
skitz

Ive said it before, I can see if they do go with SG to Ararat, the Overland subsidy will be redirected from GSR to VLine to run Ballarat-Horsham services
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia

Ive said it before, I can see if they do go with SG to Ararat, the Overland subsidy will be redirected from GSR to VLine to run Ballarat-Horsham services
james.au

I am not sure this will happen.  I can see the Overland running for a while yet and would be back running via Ballarat?
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Are you suspecting that they dont want to announce changes that could threaten passenger services and have the Ararat/Ballarat communities at risk in the election?
james.au

This makes a whole lotta sense, actually. From a rail ops point of view standardising Ararat-Ballarat is of course the logical option, but I’ve been pondering for some time how the squeaky wheel organisations of the region would respond to having to change trains. The only way it could be done politically would be to do it at the same time as passenger service return to Horsham.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Changing trains on routes if a fact of life in many many jurisdictions.

I wonder if we could ever see a SG track next to the BG track from Warrenheip to Sunshine?
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Are you suspecting that they dont want to announce changes that could threaten passenger services and have the Ararat/Ballarat communities at risk in the election?

This makes a whole lotta sense, actually. From a rail ops point of view standardising Ararat-Ballarat is of course the logical option, but I’ve been pondering for some time how the squeaky wheel organisations of the region would respond to having to change trains. The only way it could be done politically would be to do it at the same time as passenger service return to Horsham.
potatoinmymouth
The bonuses is in providing service elsewhere.  If they did SG Ararat, the pax that would be upset would be Ararat pax.  But connect Horsham, and possibly Geelong to Ballarat, more people will be happy.  And hopefully that offsets the discomfort for the Ararat pax.

Plus also puts some eventual pressure on SG Ballarat-SCS Wink...... (ducks)
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Reports of S306 and S307 going to the scrappers.  I guess no longer needed given better BG trains can cascade down to replace them as they are no longer needed post Murray Basin?
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Reports of S306 and S307 going to the scrappers.  I guess no longer needed given better BG trains can cascade down to replace them as they are no longer needed post Murray Basin?
james.au
Hopefully any parts that would benefit poor old GM 1 would be made available.

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