A history of Ticket Machines on board Adelaide Rail-cars

 
  Heath Loxton Chief Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, SA
Hello Everyone;

I am interested in the history of automatic ticket vending machines (TVM's) on our trains.

When were the first TVM's installed on our trains ?

Was the first version of TVM's different from the last pre metro-card version ?

Why were TVM's installed on board trains, instead of on the platform, as is the norm in other states ?

Thank you.

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  GeoffreyHansen Minister for Railways

Location: In a FAM sleeper
A bit off topic but there was once a tender to put ticket machines on board trains in the NSW Hunter Valley.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Why were TVM's installed on board trains, instead of on the platform, as is the norm in other states ?
Heath Loxton
Two reasons.

1. Because the ticketing system introduced by the STA in 1987 has timed tickets validated on the vehicles rather than location-based tickets validated on the station platforms, and the Liberal government of the time would not have been interested in paying for complete replacement of a system which was still fairly recently introduced and quite cheap to operate.

2. Far easier to have vending machines on what was a fleet of 100 railcars at the time (which could have cash retrieval and servicing done at the depot) than on around 137 platforms at 89 different stations which would have needed additional security resources and a team of crews who would have spent more time driving around than actually retrieving cash and servicing the vending machines. Oh, and would you have been happy going out to stations like Christie Downs or Smithfield to empty out hundreds of dollars of cash?
  Heath Loxton Chief Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, SA
Why were TVM's installed on board trains, instead of on the platform, as is the norm in other states ?
Two reasons.

1. Because the ticketing system introduced by the STA in 1987 has timed tickets validated on the vehicles rather than location-based tickets validated on the station platforms, and the Liberal government of the time would not have been interested in paying for complete replacement of a system which was still fairly recently introduced and quite cheap to operate.

2. Far easier to have vending machines on what was a fleet of 100 railcars at the time (which could have cash retrieval and servicing done at the depot) than on around 137 platforms at 89 different stations which would have needed additional security resources and a team of crews who would have spent more time driving around than actually retrieving cash and servicing the vending machines. Oh, and would you have been happy going out to stations like Christie Downs or Smithfield to empty out hundreds of dollars of cash?
justapassenger
Interesting.

Do any of you remember which year the first ticket machines were installed on Adelaide rail cars ?
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Not exactly, but I think it was the late 1990s.

Prior to Metrocard arriving, I always used a multitrip ticket so I only ever paid any attention to the vending machines when I tried to assist people having issues with them.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

My memory tells me that the first TVMs installed on the trains only accepted coins. Is that memory correct?
  mawsonboii Station Staff

Hello Everyone;

I am interested in the history of automatic ticket vending machines (TVM's) on our trains.

When were the first TVM's installed on our trains ?

Was the first version of TVM's different from the last pre metro-card version ?

Why were TVM's installed on board trains, instead of on the platform, as is the norm in other states ?

Thank you.
Heath Loxton
early to mid 90's
  Heath Loxton Chief Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, SA
Hello Everyone;

I am interested in the history of automatic ticket vending machines (TVM's) on our trains.

When were the first TVM's installed on our trains ?

Was the first version of TVM's different from the last pre metro-card version ?

Why were TVM's installed on board trains, instead of on the platform, as is the norm in other states ?

Thank you.
early to mid 90's
mawsonboii
I know this might be a stretch but were any ticket machines installed in the red hen rail cars before their retirement in 1996 ?
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

No. For the last few years the Red Hen fleet was being drawn down and mostly just used for crowd busting in the morning and evening peaks. They weren't having any updates done, and some didn't even get TransAdelaide stickers in 1994.

My memory tells me that the first TVMs installed on the trains only accepted coins. Is that memory correct?
duttonbay
Correct.

Notes have never been accepted by any of the onboard ticket machines, and cards only became accepted when the current Metrocard/ticket hybrid machines were introduced. The more commercially minded operators with the concession for the drink/snack vending machines at stations do accept notes!
  sr1180 Locomotive Fireman

How is this a bad thing in their point of view? Passengers who are unable to purchase a ticket can result in more revenue for them.
Not having the facility to take notes does not gain them revenue, in fact it only loses them revenue. No PSA/Transit Police are going to expiate a patron with notes who cannot purchase a ticket/recharge.
Aaron

It hasnt been recent, but many a time Ive seen people forced to walk up and down the train to beg people for change because all they had was a note and the inspector was going to fine them unless they bought a ticket. The policy switched when they put gates in at Adelaide.
  Heath Loxton Chief Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, SA
Why did / do ticket machines refuse to accept 5 cent coins ?
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Why did / do ticket machines refuse to accept 5 cent coins ?
Heath Loxton
For the same reason that they don't accept notes - the government made a decision that the potential losses associated with refusing legal tender were less than the difference in costs they would face for more complicated vending machines which would accept all legal tender.

The only option they would have for having their cake (retaining the ability to refuse some forms of legal tender) and eating it too (requiring all tickets be purchased) is to completely rework the system so that payment is required before travel at all stations rather than just Adelaide and on occasions at Noarlunga and Salisbury. Legal tender rules only apply for payment of existing debts (e.g. paying for a ticket after boarding a train) and not to purchasing products/services before they are delivered.

Under the current system, they will never prosecute a passenger whose legal tender has been refused. They may try issuing expiation notices or taking personal information as a form of intimidation, but they will drop the case if the passenger opts to be prosecuted rather than pay the expiation. Such a persecution would be laughed out of court and the word would quickly get out that tickets have effectively been made optional so long as the passenger wishing to ride free has a $20/50/100 note or multiple $5/10 notes in their possession.

Not having the facility to take notes does not gain them revenue, in fact it only loses them revenue. No PSA/Transit Police are going to expiate a patron with notes who cannot purchase a ticket/recharge.
Aaron

It hasnt been recent, but many a time Ive seen people forced to walk up and down the train to beg people for change because all they had was a note and the inspector was going to fine them unless they bought a ticket. The policy switched when they put gates in at Adelaide.
sr1180
If you see this happen, take a photo of the inspector* and inform them you will be taking your complaint to management.

They know that this behaviour is not permitted and that their threats have no legal basis, as evidenced by them almost certainly refusing to show their ID if requested or trying to avoid being photographed. It's just plain bullying - notice that like all bullies they will only pick on people who can't carry themselves confidently in public they see as easy targets  - and is almost certainly illegal behaviour.


* as authorised by the notices inside the doors reading "images and sound may be recorded and used"
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
You don’t even need the presence of the ‘images and audio may be recorded’ sign to photograph a ticket inspector/police officer or anyone else.

There is no right to personal privacy in Australia, nor is there a current tort for invasion of such privacy.

The High Court in ABC vs Lenah leaves some room for possible ‘invasion of privacy’ type tort, but it doesn’t exist today.

The only thing criminally you need to be a bit careful of is that you don’t use your captured images and audio to ‘offend community standards’ - whatever you take that to mean. In reality it means don’t upskirt women, be careful filiming kids, don’t film people invoked in ‘intimate acts’ - but equally your average ticket inspector isn’t going to be photographed under any of these circumstances.
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
This thread, remains about the history, if you want to yell and scream about usage etc head here:

https://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11397901.htm



(if you have a valid history post, pm me )

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