High Capacity Metro Trains (HCMT) Order

 
  loopy Locomotive Fireman

I've only re-found out as of 5 minutes ago that YES, Frankston trains CAN operate through P3 & P4 Caulfield stations [unlike what I wrongfully assumed earlier on this year], but due to the down DNG to up DNG track being de-electrified those Frankston trains must go through P2 & P3 Glen Huntly to Moorabbin stations

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  jdekorte Assistant Commissioner

Location: Near Caulfield Station
I've only re-found out as of 5 minutes ago that YES, Frankston trains CAN operate through P3 & P4 Caulfield stations [unlike what I wrongfully assumed earlier on this year], but due to the down DNG to up DNG track being de-electrified those Frankston trains must go through P2 & P3 Glen Huntly to Moorabbin stations
loopy
Well, for the time being they can. I've been told that the down junction will be totally removed when the new elevated line to Dandenong is hooked up.

However, the reason for this diversion was that there was plenty of work happening this weekend up and down the line although I only saw parts of what was taking place from Malvern to Armadale.  I did notice that new signalling conduits were being installed between Caulfield Platforms 2 & 3 and the Caulfield signal box.  Also, foundations for overheads have been drilled into the platform 1 and Malvern Stn and from what I saw from the Glenferrie Rd bridge, lots more overhead foundations were built between Malvern - Armadale.  They will probably do the same on the other lines on another weekend. I'll be interested to see how they will build new overhead foundations into the sheer brick walls at certain locations in Armadale.
  loopy Locomotive Fireman

I know where you mean, just on the down of Armadale. What I think they'll do is 2 stanchion posts in between the Frankston and Dandenong tracks - 1 set overhang to the Frankston side, the other the Dandenong side. There should be plenty of room considering signals can fit in between both sets of tracks
  kitchgp Assistant Commissioner

Looking at the new Signal Diagram and photos of Noble Park all the signals appear to be Home signals, whereas it would seem that, as there aren’t any points to protect, Automatics would be appropriate. Has this anything to do with the High Capacity Signalling?
  jdekorte Assistant Commissioner

Location: Near Caulfield Station
I know where you mean, just on the down of Armadale. What I think they'll do is 2 stanchion posts in between the Frankston and Dandenong tracks - 1 set overhang to the Frankston side, the other the Dandenong side. There should be plenty of room considering signals can fit in between both sets of tracks
loopy
That was possibly my thinking too although it doesn't leave a huge amount of room - these new stanchions are much bigger than anything else that has been used in Melbourne. I know this is a petty detail but with new stanchions on the Hurstrbridge line and new stanchions on the Glen Waverly line, many of the stanchions have 6 bolts at the base. The new stanchions along the Dandenong corridor have 12 bolts at the base. The other possibility is that stanchions overhanging the Frankston side can be installed from the embankment while the ones for the Dandenong side can be installed from the median - this would only be in certain locations. The same thing will have to happen in South Yarra in the vicinity of the Chapel St bridge.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Trapped in a meeting with Rhonda and Karsten
I've been browsing the HCMT tender documents and I believe I've found the answer about Grades of Automation and the like:

ROL-659
Each HCMT shall be capable of semi-automated train operation to 'GOA2' in accordance with IEC 62290-1 with the following 'GOA4' features defined in IEC 62290-2: automatic turnback, automatic train preparation (awake and sleep), automatic stabling, jog and creep (degraded train operation).
I've heard once the Metro tunnel is up and running, the trains will eventually run themselves through the tunnel from Dandenong to Sunbury and be completely automated in the yards.
I doubt that there will be push-button operation (i.e GOA2) between Sunbury and Dandenong - that functionality will only be used on sections where all trains equipped with High Capacity Signalling hardware. West Footscray - South Yarra MMRT junction is the most likely GOA2 sector in that instance. WFY is the temporary terminus for the extra services that will go to Melton in the future and there's a guarantee that no freight or V/Line trains will pass through the electrified platforms.
LancedDendrite
Update: High Capacity Signalling is to be implemented between Watergardens and Dandenong.
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
I've been browsing the HCMT tender documents and I believe I've found the answer about Grades of Automation and the like:

ROL-659
Each HCMT shall be capable of semi-automated train operation to 'GOA2' in accordance with IEC 62290-1 with the following 'GOA4' features defined in IEC 62290-2: automatic turnback, automatic train preparation (awake and sleep), automatic stabling, jog and creep (degraded train operation).
I've heard once the Metro tunnel is up and running, the trains will eventually run themselves through the tunnel from Dandenong to Sunbury and be completely automated in the yards.
I doubt that there will be push-button operation (i.e GOA2) between Sunbury and Dandenong - that functionality will only be used on sections where all trains equipped with High Capacity Signalling hardware. West Footscray - South Yarra MMRT junction is the most likely GOA2 sector in that instance. WFY is the temporary terminus for the extra services that will go to Melton in the future and there's a guarantee that no freight or V/Line trains will pass through the electrified platforms.
Update: High Capacity Signalling is to be implemented between Watergardens and Dandenong.
LancedDendrite
Yeah, people wonder why there are dedicated control centers on the two lines as well....
  jdekorte Assistant Commissioner

Location: Near Caulfield Station
Further work was done between Caulfield - South Yarra over the past weekend for the HCMT upgrades.  Trains were switched to just using the Frankston tracks over the whole weekend which meant that normal expresses were turned into stopping all stations - and Caulfield was busy with bus replacements linking to the Glen Waverly line.

From what I could see out the train window, much of the work was related to digging signalling conduits are various locations.  It looks like new signals will be installed at a closer spacing, and in different locations to the existing signals.  Also more foundations were constructed for overhead stanchions - there is an ever increasing amount of them appearing along the corridor.  Foundations were also dug into the Platform 4's at Malvern and Toorak.

The upgrade project is using whatever space is available so there is still a fenced off worksite on the downside of Malvern between the tracks and Dandenong Rd plus the very large works depot in the old Malvern sidings area - there is a huge amount of stocked material here. Also, there's a smaller amount of material in a corner of the South Yarra sidings park and a work site has yet to be fully activated next to the Cremorne substation.

Great to see this activity taking place.
  rokaifly Station Master

At downer facility in Newport and I heard that the first HCMT train should be arriving into Newport this Monday coming

Not sure what time of day though
  potatoinmymouth Deputy Commissioner

Paving The Way For More Trains More Often
The connection to the mainline at Pakenham East will be installed in the coming shutdown.
  potatoinmymouth Deputy Commissioner

Melbourne’s Bigger, Better Trains On The Way
Government press release announcing commencement of fitout at Newport.
  Crossover Junior Train Controller

Location: St. Albans Victoria
Melbourne’s Bigger, Better Trains On The Way
Government press release announcing commencement of fitout at Newport.
potatoinmymouth
In a way "Back to the Future "" for the Newport Site
  loopy Locomotive Fireman

Of all the extendable platforms on these lines, these have been done or are going to be done with associated platform no's and up/down end [correct me if I'm wrong]:

South Yarra - P5/P6 up end [neither done yet]

Malvern - P3 I'm assuming no extension but mirror taken off platform replaced by one off up end, P4 may be extended in down direction due to overhead not right next to down line [neither done yet]

Caulfield - P3 unsure what end will be extended, P4 up end [has been done]

Oakleigh - P1 up end, P2 down end [done]

Westall - P1/P2 up end [done], P3 unsure if any extension is occurring or has occurred

Springvale - P1/P2 down end [done, although P1 wins the award for most abysmal 'extension' *cough cough*]

Dandenong - P1 unsure which end will be done, P2 up end makes sense, P3 I'm assuming down end due to suspected removal of crossover into centre track replaced by Cranbourne partial duplication tracks further down line [none done]

Merinda Park - P1 up end [not done]

Cranbourne - P1/P2 unsure which end [neither done yet]

Hallam - P1/P2 up end [neither done yet]

Berwick - P1 down end [another 'extension'] [done], P2 unsure if being extended

Officer - P1/P2 down end [neither done yet]

Pakenham - P1/P2 down end [neither done yet]
  jdekorte Assistant Commissioner

Location: Near Caulfield Station
New foundations for overhead structures are continuing to appear between Malvern & the South Yarra river bridge. Of interest are matching concrete blocks just up from the Glenferrie Rd bridge on either side of the tracks. At this stage I can't tell if they are for overheads, signal gantries or maybe for a new substation (which would make some sense as there is already a tramway substation in the old Malvern Sidings area. These concrete blocks are much bigger than anything else that has been built. A new stanchion has been installed just down from the Wattletree Rd bridge - the first of many more to come. Some Platform 1's and Platform 4's of the MATH stations have had foundations dug into them - still a couple more to do. Signalling conduits and foundations continue to be installed up and down the line in different locations to the old signals.
  Radioman Chief Train Controller

Hello All,

re Jolimont worksite adjacent to the 1960s VR SubStation, it was graffitied within 24 hours, and overlayed with more graffiti within 48 hours.

I for one are heartily sick of this so called "artistic" vandalism. Money spent on cleaning up graffiti ( which is usually re graffitied within 48 hours ) is money not spent on other upgrades of benefit to the travelling public.

Years ago I had a stand up argument with the counter manager at the NGV for selling a book glorifying New York graffiti , which I thought was irresponsible and only encouraged dangerous vandalism , and which she thought was artistic , but notably declined my offer of arranging for her house to be so decorated.

Regards, Radioman
  kapow Junior Train Controller

I for one are heartily sick of this so called "artistic" vandalism. Money spent on cleaning up graffiti ( which is usually re graffitied within 48 hours ) is money not spent on other upgrades of benefit to the travelling public. Years ago I had a stand up argument with the counter manager at the NGV for selling a book glorifying New York graffiti , which I thought was irresponsible and only encouraged dangerous vandalism , and which she thought was artistic , but notably declined my offer of arranging for her house to be so decorated.
Radioman
  kapow Junior Train Controller

I for one are heartily sick of this so called "artistic" vandalism. Money spent on cleaning up graffiti ( which is usually re graffitied within 48 hours ) is money not spent on other upgrades of benefit to the travelling public. Years ago I had a stand up argument with the counter manager at the NGV for selling a book glorifying New York graffiti , which I thought was irresponsible and only encouraged dangerous vandalism , and which she thought was artistic , but notably declined my offer of arranging for her house to be so decorated.
Raidioman
Big difference between what quickly gets scrawled on freshly painted walls along a trainline, gets scratched into a train windows or quick fire tagging in general and the genuine talent on display with a great deal of street art across Melbourne (and I have spotted some quality stuff along our train corridors).
I've known taggers in my time who have developed as they've matured into amazing artists, the stuff the NGV, Melbourne City Council and the State Government promote is brilliant stuff and nothing wrong with it being glorified in a book. Yes tagging is a problem and it's not going away anytime soon but you shouldn't go lumping street art in with the the stuff you've mentioned.
  Radioman Chief Train Controller

Hello All,

re Kapow and Street Art , I do not consider tagging and graffiti placed on public and private property without permission to be street art. The New York Subway book in question was about graffiti and tagging , which in New York's case got so bad that passengers could not see out of the train windows .

In the end New York resorted to repainting every train every night for over two years to stop the problem ( this was according to "Railway Age" ) , and bear in mind a lot of these trains were stainless steel , so should not normally have required painting.

At the risk of stating the bleeding obvious , graffitiing signals, power structures, operational signage etc not only effects the safety of the system, but is potentially lethal , either as a result of getting too close to the overhead power , or getting collected by a passing train ( like those 3 "artists" in South London last week ) .

I am also aware of railway staff being threatened with violence by these vandals , and there have also been instances of train drivers and security staff being physically assaulted by these vandals. This is not acceptable .

It also has the psychological effect of making a lot of passengers feel unsafe and perceiving crime to be a problem ( when per capita statistically it is not ) and people have often expressed this feeling of fear and discomfort .

It should also be pointed out that all too often the offenders and their supporters seem to think that they have a right to damage other peoples property when they do not.

Regards, Radioman
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
I for one are heartily sick of this so called "artistic" vandalism. Money spent on cleaning up graffiti ( which is usually re graffitied within 48 hours ) is money not spent on other upgrades of benefit to the travelling public. Years ago I had a stand up argument with the counter manager at the NGV for selling a book glorifying New York graffiti , which I thought was irresponsible and only encouraged dangerous vandalism , and which she thought was artistic , but notably declined my offer of arranging for her house to be so decorated.
Big difference between what quickly gets scrawled on freshly painted walls along a trainline, gets scratched into a train windows or quick fire tagging in general and the genuine talent on display with a great deal of street art across Melbourne (and I have spotted some quality stuff along our train corridors).
I've known taggers in my time who have developed as they've matured into amazing artists, the stuff the NGV, Melbourne City Council and the State Government promote is brilliant stuff and nothing wrong with it being glorified in a book. Yes tagging is a problem and it's not going away anytime soon but you shouldn't go lumping street art in with the the stuff you've mentioned.
kapow

In my humble opinion, there's art and there's vandalism.

Places for public art are well defined and are easily accessible to the artist and the public. Vandalism on the other hand...like the apparent 'artworks' along railway corridors, the walls of public buildings several meters up etc. and other public or open spaces that are NOT easily accessible and are often dangerous places to be.

Consequently as that space is NOT defined as a place for public art, it should be defined as vandalism in the form of unwanted graffiti.

Mike.
  allsmiles Station Master

So where are the HCMT at now?
  potatoinmymouth Deputy Commissioner

At least one shell has arrived at Newport and assembly and fitout is under way as we speak.

And when the line reopens tomorrow morning, the new Pakenham East depot will be connected to the mainline.
  bramt Deputy Commissioner

Will the platforms at Hawksburn, Toorak, Armadale, Malvern be extended? Or not because hardly any Dandenong trains will stop there (and none once the tunnel opens)
  rokaifly Station Master

I think it may depend on if they change the timetabling.

Since Cranbourne/pakenhma still stop at those stations early morning and Late night as well as all night trains stopping there.

Possibly they will still run the 6 car trains in those hours and use the HCMT during express times, or extend platforms so they can still stop there for when there's enough HCMTS to run on all the line.

Just depends on how the government feels I reckon
  rokaifly Station Master

I think it may depend on if they change the timetabling.

Since Cranbourne/pakenhma still stop at those stations early morning and Late night as well as all night trains stopping there.

Possibly they will still run the 6 car trains in those hours and use the HCMT during express times, or extend platforms so they can still stop there for when there's enough HCMTS to run on all the line.

Just depends on how the government feels I reckon
  reubstar6 Junior Train Controller

This may have already been covered but will they still be able to run 6 car trains through the Metro Tunnel stopping all stations (especially Comeng trains)? How will they stop at the platform screen doors?

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