Gippsland Line Upgrade

 
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Sausage sizzle and cab tour to get the punters on board the Bairnsdale VLocity - they might be slightly less enthusiastic when they realise it's 4 hours sans first class or snack bar!
potatoinmymouth

Idea...unlikely to be 4 hours due to VLocity's travelling up to 160Km/h and a fabulous power to weight ratio compared to the old N Class limited to 115Km/h and as slow as a snail to leave/arrive at stations

Mike.

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  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Sausage sizzle and cab tour to get the punters on board the Bairnsdale VLocity - they might be slightly less enthusiastic when they realise it's 4 hours sans first class or snack bar!
potatoinmymouth
V/Line said on their Facebook post that they are considering what to do regarding catering arrangements.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

That’s a good point Mike, it will probably end up in the order of the Echuca run (3.20). For what it’s worth I don’t think that should be without catering/first class either - how are you ever going to convince people that a slight time disadvantage over road travel is worthwhile without extra amenity value?
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
That’s a good point Mike, it will probably end up in the order of the Echuca run (3.20). For what it’s worth I don’t think that should be without catering/first class either - how are you ever going to convince people that a slight time disadvantage over road travel is worthwhile without extra amenity value?
potatoinmymouth

Possibly because a family ticket is often cheaper than driving and LOTS more fun...especially for the kids.

A pity the link doesn't work...

M.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Apologies Mike, let’s give that another whirl. (Edit: RP does not like this URL!)

https://www.vline.com.au/Escape-with-V-Line/Preview-Event/Destination-Details?id=661

And I’m not convinced cost incentive is sufficient here: think, for instance, of short-haul air fares, where a large number of people will pay a little more because they want to arrive in Sydney at 6pm rather than 12 noon just because it’s the cheapest option.

No, rail has to compete with the car on amenity value as well as price point - and that means something to convince people reduced flexibility in their travel is offset. For anything north of 3h IMHO that makes catering/first class a necessity, not to mention things that SHOULD be introduced like free wifi (I understand the coverage and cost issues but it adds massively to said amenity value).

Given the choice between a 3h drive to Mel via the Monash Carpark and a 3.30 train trip with a coffee and cake on the way while working/studying, there are a LOT of people who could be persuaded to make the switch for occasional trips. And that goes for all the long-hauls, both existing and potential. On top of that, first class adds value for semi-regular travellers and could be enhanced further, perhaps with the provision of something like in-seat power.

Of course V/Line has to work out how to get the trains from A to B all the time first!
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Trapped in a meeting with Rhonda and Karsten
Sausage sizzle and cab tour to get the punters on board the Bairnsdale VLocity - they might be slightly less enthusiastic when they realise it's 4 hours sans first class or snack bar!
V/Line said on their Facebook post that they are considering what to do regarding catering arrangements.
railblogger
It'll be a vending machine.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Dont get too excited the Daryl Kerrigan vibes are that from the late 2018 tt change with the lx protection addressed between Traralgon and Bairnsdale that the Bairnsdale trips will be V/Locity to lighten the loads on teh Stratford bridge to nurse a couple more years out of the structure till the new bridge is complete .

Whether we have double consists as far as Traralgon on some trips we have to wait and see .

Speed wise on the existing track you are likely to get  up to 160kmh between Warragul and Moe, 130 kmh to Traralgon and beyond that 100kmh as Traralgon - Sale is Class - 3 and in its current state 100 kmh is liklely for both loco hauled and DMU . The weekend Sale V/Locity are only allowed 100 kmh on the Class - 3 track .
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

So any TT improvements will only come from acceleration/braking, not line speed?

That vending machine’s looking pretty barren...
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
So any TT improvements will only come from acceleration/braking, not line speed?

That vending machine’s looking pretty barren...
potatoinmymouth
Not only is it barren its broken as well ...........

Oops - train cancelled.
  Lockspike Deputy Commissioner

Thank you Skitz and Historian; very interesting.
I dips me lid to the Resident Engineer for the 1896 extension. Very unconventional and I'm sure the construction gave him some anxious moments.
Was the imperative to make the girders shorter than the distance between the piers due to make transportation easier?
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line

And I’m not convinced cost incentive is sufficient here: think, for instance, of short-haul air fares, where a large number of people will pay a little more because they want to arrive in Sydney at 6pm rather than 12 noon just because it’s the cheapest option.

No, rail has to compete with the car on amenity value as well as price point - and that means something to convince people reduced flexibility in their travel is offset. For anything north of 3h IMHO that makes catering/first class a necessity, not to mention things that SHOULD be introduced like free wifi (I understand the coverage and cost issues but it adds massively to said amenity value).

Of course V/Line has to work out how to get the trains from A to B all the time first!
potatoinmymouth

Why is all this FLASHNESS necessary for V/Line to provide unnecessary WiFi (people have cheap phone plans these days)and first class catering nonsense when families pack themselves into the cheapest and nastiest airlines to travel interstate...read Tiger and Jetstar because they are a couple of $$ cheaper than QANTAS or Virgin.

Last Saturday I travelled home from the City on the 16:16 Ballarat, an hourly service these days. A 6 car VLocity no football pax because the game hadn't ended yet but the train was full and standing when it left Footscray and full of families who'd been out for the day.

V/Line doesn't have to try too hard, they already have the runs on the board...however there are a few notable exceptions where longer distance timetables could easily be accelerated and the services could increase patronage even more.

Mike.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Maybe we will have to agree to disagree Mike, but I would certainly suggest the budget airline argument is a red herring.

A single return from Bairnsdale is currently $75 or a 500km round trip by car. Considering petrol and parking costs, the two are in the same order of magnitude price-wise, perhaps very close to identical. Obviously the situation is more complex for multiple travellers, but let’s stick with the single adult for now.

What that means is the price point is very difficult for the irregular traveller to compare, and, when they do, they will find the railway and the train are “much of a muchness”. So what will persuade them to choose one over the other?

The car’s biggest advantage is flexibility at the end of journey, and ability to make stops along the way for food, toilet and so on.

The train has to find a way of competing with this: I don’t believe that is “flashiness”, it’s just sensible service provision. The toilet is covered, and there’s the added incentive of not needing to drive.

I think you would find that even the most budget-conscious travellers would find the purchase of snacks on a Tiger Perth flight, or at the airport at either end, a useful amenity. Even if they packed their own sandwiches most of the time, it helps to know you can get a coffee. And as for wifi, your rational budget-conscious traveller would be very tempted by the option not to spend his own money on internet! Aside from that, whatever your personal expectations are, free public wifi is increasingly expected of service providers, and there’s no reason V/Line should be the same.

These are not radical suggestions - they are simply what I would expect of a railway looking to maintain its relevance to Victoria’s passenger-carrying future. While I agree carrying those passengers safely, reliably, and punctually (in that order) is crucial, the comfort element cannot be ignored.
  steve195 Train Controller

'Long distance' services could surely have their journey times reduced by removing unnecessary stops.

Bairnsdale trains should only stop once or twice between Moe and Dandenong. The stations in between can be served by commuter services.
  tom9876543 Train Controller

I agree with steve195 - the stops for the Bairnsdale train should be reduced to only Stratford, Sale, Rosedale, Traralgon, Moe, and Caulfield.

Ideally what should be timetabled in the morning:
Bairnsdale express departs Moe 7:30am.
Bairnsdale express then only has 1 stop at Caulfield, arrives at Flinders St 9:00am (90minutes to travel 135kms with 1 stop).
Traralgon all-stopper arrives at Moe station 3 minutes before Bairnsdale express. People can change to the express train.
Bairnsdale express then has to "overtake" the Traralgon all-stopper at Trafalgar.
  712M Chief Commissioner

Given that it takes almost an hour just to travel Pakenham to Caulfield if you're behind a Metro train, you would never get Moe-Flinders Street in 90 minutes.

Wait, wasn't that what RFR was meant to achieve?
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
I agree with steve195 - the stops for the Bairnsdale train should be reduced to only Stratford, Sale, Rosedale, Traralgon, Moe, and Caulfield.

Ideally what should be timetabled in the morning:
Bairnsdale express departs Moe 7:30am.
Bairnsdale express then only has 1 stop at Caulfield, arrives at Flinders St 9:00am (90minutes to travel 135kms with 1 stop).
Traralgon all-stopper arrives at Moe station 3 minutes before Bairnsdale express. People can change to the express train.
Bairnsdale express then has to "overtake" the Traralgon all-stopper at Trafalgar.
tom9876543
Pie In the sky, never going to happen !
  Galron Chief Commissioner

Location: Werribee, Vic
regardless of the merits of the Bairnsdale Train becoming a vlocity, Has anyone done the Math on what will the time saved be on the trip? or event mocked up a timetable? The ability to do 160 in relevant areas will surely reduce the time for the trip, however i dont recall seeing things like acceleration figures vlocity vs N-class+5 car N set, along with the speed reductions the vlocity will need to have for the uncontrolled crossings. There will be a few left when it start running
  thekingoffoxes Chief Train Controller

Here is a record of the current Sale Station and yard.
Good to see there is still some flexibility for a run around and passing freight trains if they ever return.
Track testing trains have been stabled in the back siding on previous occasions.
EDIT: And I believe R707 used the back siding to show off to the public today.



https://youtu.be/PIwTT0Phqy8
  djukinX1016 Deputy Commissioner

Is the back siding referred to the line that used to go to the original station?
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Is the back siding referred to the line that used to go to the original station?
djukinX1016
The siding going past the goods sheds (closest to the passenger station) was the former Bairnsdale track (coming out of old Sale Station)
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

'Long distance' services could surely have their journey times reduced by removing unnecessary stops.

Bairnsdale trains should only stop once or twice between Moe and Dandenong. The stations in between can be served by commuter services.
steve195
Anywhere else in the world no one would consider this as its common sense, however in backwater land they currently have warrnambool services stopping all stations on the geelong line on weekends.  So anything can happen.
  vlocity27 Junior Train Controller

Location: Pakenham
Can't seem to access to the disruptions thread, but anyone have any idea what happened at a bridge in Stratford yesterday which had trains terminating at Sale??
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Can't seem to access to the disruptions thread, but anyone have any idea what happened at a bridge in Stratford yesterday which had trains terminating at Sale??
vlocity27
All I could find

http://www.ewn.com.au/traffic/general-stratfordmaffra-road-c105-378814.traffic

Maybe this low height railway bridge was struck by an over height truck, and line was closed to do necessary structural and safety Inspections before trains get the green light to run again.
  gippslander Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Gippsland, Vic
Interesting article in the Latrobe Valley Express of 21 June, which has a front page story about the National
Party candidate for Morwell ‘pricing plans for a dedicated tunnel from Pakenham to Melbourne’, possibly in a separate location.
It’s obviously quite a courageous statement of intent, as their calculator wouldn’t have enough zeros to rack up the eventual price. But it is encouraging to see one of the Coalition partners acknowledging the Gippsland corridor has serious reliability issues, and are at least talking it.
  djukinX1016 Deputy Commissioner

Is the back siding referred to the line that used to go to the original station?
The siding going past the goods sheds (closest to the passenger station) was the former Bairnsdale track (coming out of old Sale Station)
Nightfire
Thanks for the advice was trying to remember have only been there once.
Regards
Phil

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