NSW Freight and rail customers in the loop with $21.5m project

 

News article: NSW Freight and rail customers in the loop with $21.5m project

BUSINESSES in Bathurst and the Central West are set to benefit following the announcement of a $21.

  gordon_s1942 Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Tablelands of NSW
I am hearing that the location for the one supposedly '3.2km West of Rydal' is not where I though it would be but is far closer to Rydal, like not that far from the old Up Distant !!
I am gong to try and contact the property owner of that area and see if they have been notified of any works proceeding nearby.

The area is where in past years 2 'Tin Bridges' Timber bridges with corrogated iron cladding are located and on what is/was localy known as the 'Water Board Road' which the Public Works used to patrol a water pipeline that runs from Oberon to Wallerawang, primarily for the Power stations.
This is on a rising grade and is to me rather twisty and not where I would have chosen to cross trains, but then I am not an engineer.

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  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Time yes , distances questionable .

I don't get the these crossing loops won't alter the running times of any trains bit . If you are a section or two ahead of what the current infrastructure allows when you finally get the green how can you be no better off ?
In case you are wondering yes I have run trains through that part of the world . And yes I have sat at places like Tarana for an hour or so waiting for two trains to get across from Wang .
Yetties are ok , they devour non route qualified gunzels though ...
BDA

Tarana is ok since there is the pub right next to the station that has great food.
  gordon_s1942 Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Tablelands of NSW
It is confirmed that as I write this that a team are working barely 1km west of Rydal.
They have removed 2 'level crossings' that were installed after the double line was removed to allow both the local property owners to take livestock across and any vehicles used for Track Inspection/work to cross from the UP side to the Down side at the start of the cutting to drive alongside the line.

I was told a new 'level crossing' is to be established 'nearby' but to use it will require a call to 'Train Control' (where ever) for permission to do so.

If this Crossing is being installed at this location, the Tarana end will be barley 3.2 Kms from Rydal as announced.

My information is the 'Works' are due for completion by February 2019.
  a6et Minister for Railways

It is confirmed that as I write this that a team are working barely 1km west of Rydal.
They have removed 2 'level crossings' that were installed after the double line was removed to allow both the local property owners to take livestock across and any vehicles used for Track Inspection/work to cross from the UP side to the Down side at the start of the cutting to drive alongside the line.

I was told a new 'level crossing' is to be established 'nearby' but to use it will require a call to 'Train Control' (where ever) for permission to do so.

If this Crossing is being installed at this location, the Tarana end will be barley 3.2 Kms from Rydal as announced.

My information is the 'Works' are due for completion by February 2019.
gordon_s1942
Just in time for the state election.
  gordon_s1942 Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Tablelands of NSW
Time yes , distances questionable .

I don't get the these crossing loops won't alter the running times of any trains bit . If you are a section or two ahead of what the current infrastructure allows when you finally get the green how can you be no better off ?
In case you are wondering yes I have run trains through that part of the world . And yes I have sat at places like Tarana for an hour or so waiting for two trains to get across from Wang .
Yetties are ok , they devour non route qualified gunzels though ...
BDA
It takes a train X amount of time to travel over a specific distance,
Crossing loops have no affect on the speed of a train between 2 locations only it now allows 2 trains to travel where only one could before.
A Train of 1000 Tonnes can travel between Wallerawang to Tarana in 30 minutes but that same same train traveling between Tarana and Wallerawang will take between 40 minutes and one hour.
In past times the running was on the Down between Wallerawang, Rydal and Tarana was 10 to 15 minutes and 25 minutes.
In the UP direction, Tarana to Rydal 40 plus minutes and 10 minutes to Wallerawang.
I spent 3 years working Rydal (63-66) and 25 years at Wallerawang so I am fairly familiar with the grades and running times.

This is due to the gradiants involved,
From Wallerawang to midway to Rydal is a rising Grade in the Down Direction, from that point to Tarana, its all DOWNHILL.

If the trains only ran in the Down direction, there is no need for a Crossing Loop based on the volume of traffic on the western line.
Its in the UP direction where the delays occur.

Re 68 Rail motor mentioned in my previous comment, the 600 class Rail motor that covered the area ran under the following numbers.
86 Orange or Cowra to Lithgow Mon to Sat.
67 Lithgow to Mudgee             Mon to Sat
68 Mudgee to Lithgow             Mon to Sat
87 Lithgow to Orange/cowra     Mon to Sat.

On Sunday the Orange to Lithgow service was provided by the Silver City Comet.

28 and 31 was the Central West Express Sydney to Orange, now its the XPT Sydney to Dubbo daily.
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
I gather that you were not there to see how the altered arrangements went considering that all the attended boxes were closed - except Bathurst for a short time .
  gordon_s1942 Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Tablelands of NSW
I still live 300 metres from the Main Western Line and hear them trundling through daily.
There are times I use the XPT as my alarm clock, better if it stops and blows the whistle of a morning.

I left 2 years before the removal of the (mostly) Down Main converting it into a single line between Tarana and Wallerawang.
I had then and still have contact with those who remained and either were made redundant by the closures or managed to transfer to another location.
Its what they have told me back then, now and by my own observations over the years that I base my comments on.

Having seen what difference there was in the traffic flow when Sodwalls was closed, then when Rydal was altered to allow it to be 'Cut Out' showed how that affected the frequency of UP trains would only get worse when the line was converted from a Double to a single.

It must said however that just before any changes were made, the Traffic flow on the Main West was very minimal, at times as few as 4 trains a shift.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Time yes , distances questionable .

I don't get the these crossing loops won't alter the running times of any trains bit . If you are a section or two ahead of what the current infrastructure allows when you finally get the green how can you be no better off ?
In case you are wondering yes I have run trains through that part of the world . And yes I have sat at places like Tarana for an hour or so waiting for two trains to get across from Wang .
Yetties are ok , they devour non route qualified gunzels though ...
It takes a train X amount of time to travel over a specific distance,
Crossing loops have no affect on the speed of a train between 2 locations only it now allows 2 trains to travel where only one could before.
A Train of 1000 Tonnes can travel between Wallerawang to Tarana in 30 minutes but that same same train traveling between Tarana and Wallerawang will take between 40 minutes and one hour.
In past times the running was on the Down between Wallerawang, Rydal and Tarana was 10 to 15 minutes and 25 minutes.
In the UP direction, Tarana to Rydal 40 plus minutes and 10 minutes to Wallerawang.
I spent 3 years working Rydal (63-66) and 25 years at Wallerawang so I am fairly familiar with the grades and running times.

This is due to the gradiants involved,
From Wallerawang to midway to Rydal is a rising Grade in the Down Direction, from that point to Tarana, its all DOWNHILL.

If the trains only ran in the Down direction, there is no need for a Crossing Loop based on the volume of traffic on the western line.
Its in the UP direction where the delays occur.
gordon_s1942

You do realise that this is 2018 and not 1966 don't you? Modern diesel have no issues with the gradients. Early diesels and steam trains from the 60's did have issues and so re instating the original straighter alignments are not an issue in 2018.

The Xplorer, XPT and the new regional fleet when built would have even less issues with those original alignments.
  a6et Minister for Railways

Time yes , distances questionable .

I don't get the these crossing loops won't alter the running times of any trains bit . If you are a section or two ahead of what the current infrastructure allows when you finally get the green how can you be no better off ?
In case you are wondering yes I have run trains through that part of the world . And yes I have sat at places like Tarana for an hour or so waiting for two trains to get across from Wang .
Yetties are ok , they devour non route qualified gunzels though ...
It takes a train X amount of time to travel over a specific distance,
Crossing loops have no affect on the speed of a train between 2 locations only it now allows 2 trains to travel where only one could before.
A Train of 1000 Tonnes can travel between Wallerawang to Tarana in 30 minutes but that same same train traveling between Tarana and Wallerawang will take between 40 minutes and one hour.
In past times the running was on the Down between Wallerawang, Rydal and Tarana was 10 to 15 minutes and 25 minutes.
In the UP direction, Tarana to Rydal 40 plus minutes and 10 minutes to Wallerawang.
I spent 3 years working Rydal (63-66) and 25 years at Wallerawang so I am fairly familiar with the grades and running times.

This is due to the gradiants involved,
From Wallerawang to midway to Rydal is a rising Grade in the Down Direction, from that point to Tarana, its all DOWNHILL.

If the trains only ran in the Down direction, there is no need for a Crossing Loop based on the volume of traffic on the western line.
Its in the UP direction where the delays occur.

You do realise that this is 2018 and not 1966 don't you? Modern diesel have no issues with the gradients. Early diesels and steam trains from the 60's did have issues and so re instating the original straighter alignments are not an issue in 2018.

The Xplorer, XPT and the new regional fleet when built would have even less issues with those original alignments.
simstrain
Even modern diesels get down to a slow slog when the whole train is on the grade and the curves also pull the train back.

Also comparing a half weighted XPT and 2 car XPL and the unknown of the new regional fleet to the loads that were more often than not full on loco hauled pax trains is also poor..  Even 36 and more so 38cl with those same loads and conditions could go up those grades very much unhindered.  Been there and done it.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Just in time for the state election.
a6et

a) Do you want the upgrades or don't you?

b) No one seriously gives a flying f#*! about regional rail - do you honestly think this will be a project that wins an election Laughing
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

I never compared the XPT and Xplorer to old passenger hauled trains. I meant in general about old steam engines and diesels vs a modern diesel loco. Do you really think that a 36 or 38 class could pull a modern load with coal, grain or modern containers of 1 to 1.5km's in length up those inclines? SSR has to put 6 or 7 old vintage diesels to pull those big trains up the hills that 3 x NR's, 82's or 81's can do. In any case the curves are just as bad as the grades and the shorter routes have fewer curves.

Passenger numbers may have been up in those loco hauled years but they were also pulling wooden carriages which were much lighter then a modern DMU carriage which weigh about 60 tonnes and so of course an old steam train shouldn't have an issue pulling those old passenger trains up a hill. This video of bevan walls however shows how steam trains still struggle up these inclines even with diesel assistance in 2015.
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
I think the loops will make a difference because they will allow extra refuges for times when there is more than one train a day in each direction . Even when trains are not being refuged mid section signals make each section involved shorter so follow on movements can be closer .
It also gives the controllers a better chance of managing trains with differing performance levels .

Now back to the good old days .
There was no such thing as a high performance diesel until the 81s turned up and 80s etc were piles of excrement . I can only imagine any Alco going well up out of Tarana having very light loads . From memory 81s on anything other than a Mudgee line coal train were quite rare out there .
No doubt NSWGR and SRA in the early days loaded diesels to the hilt out there and I can remember one old driver telling me of growing a beard going up Wang bank with an 80 or two and the load meter being in the red the whole way .
Also I'll check my notes but I reckon the top of Wang bank is closer to Rydal than Wang .

In the singled line era we always had delays following trains on the Bathurst Lithgow part of the Parkes Sydney pilgrimage . This was on steel trains too and these were powered to get up Zig Zag so not really lacking .
Had some of the single line sections had loops or even mid section signalling we would not have spent so much time sitting looking at signals in remote places . BTW where you sit and rot on up trains approaching Tarana , you're still a long way back from the station .

I do have one question . Does the Bathurst Bullet still run empty from Bathurst to Lithgow to stable , then back to Bathurst in the early hours to form the up service ? If so this is a huge waste of track capacity , loops to sit the Doodle Bug in when freighters are about would help in these circumstances .
I'm not sure what the traffic levels are like in this area having not been out there for nearly four years . There a probably a fair sprinkling of Wheaties running around plus the Blayney train . Also isn't there ore trains and the Fletchers Botany shuttle doing roundies out there . Throw in two XPTs plus the Bullet , Sprinters Indians and steelies - a reasonable amount of traffic it seems .
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

The train goes back to lithgow but I believe it is not an empty service but an actual passenger service. 3:42 Lithgow to Bathurst and then the bullet forms at 5:46am to Sydney. Same in the evening with the 10:17pm service back to lithgow.
  gordon_s1942 Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Tablelands of NSW
Got a letter drop from John Holland advising the projected working days for the installation of this loop West of Rydal.
The project is slated for completion by March, 2019.

The letter advised that the predatory work for the widening of cuttings and other earthworks is proceeding on schedule.

Later during the program, works may be carried out on a Saturday and 'during the installation of the Turnouts and Signal alterations, this will require work to be carried out over a 24 hour period.'

It would appear the lie of the present Single line is to remain where it is with the Loop using a newly created Road bed.
  Lockspike Assistant Commissioner

The letter advised that the predatory work for the widening of cuttings and other earthworks is proceeding on schedule.
gordon_s1942
Predatory? This really doesn't paint JH in a good light! Cool
  fzr560 Chief Train Controller

The letter advised that the predatory work for the widening of cuttings and other earthworks is proceeding on schedule.
Predatory? This really doesn't paint JH in a good light! Cool
Lockspike
It's a dog eat dog world out there:oops:

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