Save CLP10

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 10 Aug 2017 10:21
  neillfarmer Junior Train Controller

I think I will leave future liveries up to Bernie. I think he has earnt that privilege.
Neill Farmer

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  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
In the USA they are painting modern locos in old colour schemes, or heritage colours. This CLP  could be painted into a CL  CR colour scheme as a heritage paint scheme on the more modern CLP unit.  
It's all  what you consider the loco, a old failed unit made from a older class, or still in it's bones the old loco, etc.

A Travesty? it's only a  dulux thin thickness deep......


But the reality we can all talk about where, what will happen etc etc, but the excuters of the loco will be working on that, and not us here.  If you want to help them, offer your support.

Regards,
David Head
  The_trolley Deputy Commissioner

dthead,

The recent batches of “Heritage Units”  painted in the US have generally been brand new locos painted in older schemes (primarily as a means of protecting copyrights). And, the few older units painted by Class 1’s and Shortlines have been pretty damn close to their original selfs externally. They look like they did because they were off the shelf EMD domestic products and despite some internal changes didn’t change a great deal externally.

When MKA rebuilt the CL’s and AL’s which were non standard locomotives they created entirely different locomotives. A CLP with a different cab roof, extra portholes, intakes and grills and a modified rear end painted in CR colours will not look like a CL.

At the end of the day, it is Streamliners Australia decision how they present the locomotive. You wouldn’t take a belpair boilered 3609, put the Hunter plates back on it and call it a roundtop though.

CLP10 is just as significant as CL17. I don’t think some of the railfran fraternity realise how different the two locomotives are even though they share the same nose.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Do CLFs and CLPs look significantly different?
Did the CLPs ever carry the green and yellow AN colour scheme?
I assume that the CLFs were green and yellow.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
CLP10 is just as significant as CL17. I don’t think some of the railfran fraternity realise how different the two locomotives are even though they share the same nose.
The_trolley
Great info, thanks Trolley.

Can you elaborate on why CLP10 is as significant as CL17, I thought that the whole point of this was that CL17 was the last Bulldog ever built, was CLP10 the last CL converted?

It seems to me that is loses it's significance a bit.

BG
  The_trolley Deputy Commissioner

There are only minor external detail differences between a CLP and F and none of the P’s wore the normal AN green and yellow corporate colour scheme.

To my mind, CL17 was the last streamlined EMD cab unit built in the world. However, CLP10 retains that nose, is an example of the only Australian diesel electric originally designed to haul principally passenger trains, has operated in all states of Australia connected to the Standard Gauge rail network and headed some of the countries most famous named trains and wore a special paint scheme to go with it (Indian Pacific, The Ghan and The Overland). CLP10 has seen and done more than CL17 ever did. It’s still the same nose and that history didn’t stop the day it entered MKA to become CLP10. If anything it’s an extension of the story of CL17.

As I’ve said, it’s Streamliners Australias locomotive to do as they want with paint included. Cost alone though really dictates that if the project is to go anywhere the locomotive will have to remain a CLP. It’s too much unlike a CL now to go back and there’s not the financial backing to make that happen. Going back will involve altering the historic fabric of the locomotive at the same time and personally I’d prefer to see a CLP than a CLP that looks somewhat like a CL.
  The_trolley Deputy Commissioner

Actually, I forgot the A, N and P classes when I mentioned the passenger diesels. On the same token though, it’s plainly obvious to anyone how much the B class were altered to build the A class and I couldn’t see anyone proposing rebuilding A60 to a B class or painting it in VR colours if it was to become a preserved locomotive because of its significance. Like A60 retaining B60’s signifance, CLP10 retains CL17’s significance. And like A60, CLP10 is too much unlike its original form to seriously contemplate reversing that form.

In all seriousness and as I mentioned before, it was a struggle to buy the locomotive and that only happened because an anonymous donor (much kudos to them) stumped up the majority of the purchase cost. It is going to cost high six figures to into the sevens to get the locomotive fully operational and restored as CLP10 let alone attempting serious bodywork which will require a level of internal modification at the same time to make the loco workable. It’s just being realistic and getting those too few dollars to stretch as far as they can for a workable and historically acceptable result. I can’t see how trying to present a CLP as a CL or trying to backdate a CLP to a CL is either.
  ivahri Train Controller

I think I will leave future liveries up to Bernie. I think he has earnt that privilege.
Neill Farmer
neillfarmer
Has he? What about those who have donated all of the money? Haven't they earned that privilege?

I love the attitude of the rail fraternity... give us your money but shut up & let us make the decisions. If you take peoples money you OWE them.

Good on Bernie for what he has achieved but I totally disagree with this popular notion that rail lovers are cows waiting to be milked. No, they are your partners & deserve some respect in decision making.



Richard
  meh Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
I think I will leave future liveries up to Bernie. I think he has earnt that privilege.
Neill Farmer
Has he? What about those who have donated all of the money? Haven't they earned that privilege?

I love the attitude of the rail fraternity... give us your money but shut up & let us make the decisions. If you take peoples money you OWE them.

Good on Bernie for what he has achieved but I totally disagree with this popular notion that rail lovers are cows waiting to be milked. No, they are your partners & deserve some respect in decision making.



Richard
ivahri
I understand your point, but the saying "too many chefs in the kitchen" comes to mind if you opened the decision making to everybody who donated.

By donating to the CLP10/CL17 cause we were not purchasing a share in the loco; we were providing financial assistance to Streamliners Australia to secure the loco.

No different to donating to the Red Cross then trying to dictate to them how to spend the money...
  michaelgm Assistant Commissioner

Would not spent one red cent trying to re-wright history. Been saved from the gas axe. Well done.
CL/CLP Joe average wouldn't know, personally neither would I.
Make the last bulldog a goer. I'll be buying a ticket.
  ivahri Train Controller

I think I will leave future liveries up to Bernie. I think he has earnt that privilege.
Neill Farmer
Has he? What about those who have donated all of the money? Haven't they earned that privilege?

I love the attitude of the rail fraternity... give us your money but shut up & let us make the decisions. If you take peoples money you OWE them.

Good on Bernie for what he has achieved but I totally disagree with this popular notion that rail lovers are cows waiting to be milked. No, they are your partners & deserve some respect in decision making.



Richard
I understand your point, but the saying "too many chefs in the kitchen" comes to mind if you opened the decision making to everybody who donated.

By donating to the CLP10/CL17 cause we were not purchasing a share in the loco; we were providing financial assistance to Streamliners Australia to secure the loco.

No different to donating to the Red Cross then trying to dictate to them how to spend the money...
meh
The Red Cross are accountable for the way they spend their money. Individuals are not. Bad publicity can kill future fund raising prospects so they have a real motivation to avoid bad publicity or any perception that donations are not being well spent.

Having said that... the notion of sending a loco that has been saved from the scrap buyer by Australian enthusiasts on what will be a very expensive one way trip to the US... well you tell me how those who donated should feel.

I agree with you about "too many chefs" but there is a need to show some respect for what motivated them to give in the first place- and that is to see that loco preserved HERE for their enjoyment.



Richard
  TheMeddlingMonk Deputy Commissioner

Location: The Time Vortex near Melbourne, Australia
... the notion of sending a loco that has been saved from the scrap buyer by Australian enthusiasts on what will be a very expensive one way trip to the US... well you tell me how those who donated should feel.
ivahri

Pretty sure Bernie said somewhere that it would only go to the US if the return shipping costs were also covered.
  michaelgm Assistant Commissioner

Huh, one way trip?
Can't come back, shouldn't go.
Or maybe the anonymous donor was a septic tank? Then all bets are off.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The group is now after a lot more money to cover parts for the locomotive.  Will be interesting to see if people are prepared to dig deeper?
  Greensleeves Chief Commissioner

Location: If it isn't obvious by now, it should be.
Well they've saved it, next step is to get it operational. The post they released about it said that they've done a mechanical check on it, sorted the facility for painting (plus paint) and applied for a grant to sort out the ICE radio. And they've hinted that there's a lot of good news to come so it may not be long before it runs again.

I also note they put up a poll on their Facebook page asking if people prefer it as CL17 or CLP10, so they might restore it as CLP10 and get some income coming in for having it running to save for the conversion back to as built?
  bevans Site Admin
  Dangersdan707 Deputy Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Confirmed to Be CL17 Externally internally a CLP
Also Regaining Original Name William McMahon

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2153332224680500&set=p.2153332224680500&type=3&theater

Edit: Was Renamed Mirning after Rebuild
  michaelgm Assistant Commissioner

Didn't know or remember, CL17 was named after Billy McMahon. He tried chatting up my mother one time, she said urrrgh.
Don't particularly care about preserved loco colours and the like, but now CLP10 would look great!!!!!!
LaughingVery Happy
Have a nice day, Mick.
  M636C Minister for Railways

If it is remaining as a CLP, it should at some time get renumbered back to 3010.

See "An Australian Locomotive Guide" page 196.... (the photo is in the current version of "Locomotives of Australia too...)

I've never seen it looking better in any colour scheme.

(I think CLP 8 ran as 3008 as well, but I've never seen a photo)

Peter
  Valvegear The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Didn't know or remember, CL17 was named after Billy McMahon. He tried chatting up my mother one time, she said urrrgh.
"michaelgm"
A paper by the name of Kings Cross Whisper circulated during the time that Billy was PM, and used to refer to, "The Prim Monster, Mr McMoan."
  M636C Minister for Railways

Looking at Bernie's photograph of CLP 10 in his recent post, it shows the white vinyl patch which covered the number "3010" for some years.

The problem with removing the "hump" from the cab roof mentioned in that post is that the "hump" was added when the cab floor was raised by about 300mm. This can be seen from the outside because the height of the cab door was reduced by the same amount that the floor was raised. But the hump was needed because the headroom was reduced by 300 mm. So watch your head if you get a cab tour...

No comment has been made about changing the much bigger air intakes on the roof behind the cab to resemble those of an original CL.

Peter
  michaelgm Assistant Commissioner

Really? 300mm here humps there, extra handrails, too many air intakes? Waste of precious cash.
Make it go, paint it pretty, sell tickets.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Didn't know or remember, CL17 was named after Billy McMahon. He tried chatting up my mother one time, she said urrrgh.
A paper by the name of Kings Cross Whisper circulated during the time that Billy was PM, and used to refer to, "The Prim Monster, Mr McMoan."
Valvegear
I didn't think that you would read such a rag!Smile
It was around when I was at school but Playboy was more popular amongst us kids in those days. Twisted Evil
  Valvegear The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Norda Fittazroy
I didn't think that you would read such a rag!  It was around when I was at school but Playboy was more popular amongst us kids in those days.
"YM-Mundrabilla"
When Billy was PM, I had graduated and had been working for about 9 years. There were many "alternative" papers - National Times, Nation Review to name a couple, and my then wife and I read them all. I'm an old codger and had outgrown Playboy.Very Happy
  The_trolley Deputy Commissioner

M636C,

Can you forward that information to Bernie Baker? I ask because it’s obvious he did no research other than consulting a Dulux colour chart.

What a horrendous waste of money and resources. All to create something which is neither. Talk about misguided self interest clouding sound judgement and critical thought.

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