New long-distance V/Line rolling stock

 
  woodford Chief Commissioner

In the past I have known conductors on the UP Swan Hill after leaving Castlemaine when the non-reserved cars are full and standing to advise pax to sit in the spare seats of the (reserved) BRN or pay a surcharge for travel in the relative tranquility of the ACN.

Mike.
How does one go about upgrading to an ACN seat when travelling on a MYKI Mike?

I for one would do this if I knew it was possible!

BG

When I've done it, I've gone to the booking office at Southern Cross (presumably you could also do this at other stations too) and asked for a First Class upgrade on (whatever train you are travelling on). Cost is $8, they will give you a old style V/Line paper ticket, which has your seat number on it.

You also have to to touch on you Myki when travelling, and when the conductor asks for you ticket, you need to present both the Myki and the paper ticket.

N463
N463
I do not know about other services but on the Albury train, you would be VERY lucky to get a 1st class seat on the day of travel, you have to book a 1st class at LEAST a week in advance. If you wish for a particular seat make that at least 2 weeks.
First class on the Albury train is always full.

woodford

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  Jack Le Lievre Assistant Commissioner

Location: Moolap Station, Vic
One is to wonder what is to become of the N class locos. Shall they be left to rot in the yards as has become of the A and P class locos or shall they be sold on to freight and heritage groups
Dangersdan707
Seriously, I am sure that there was a whole thread about this topic earlier in the year:!:Question
  nozza99 Station Master

Location: Warrnambool, Vic
My main query on the temporary V/Locity services to Bairnsdale is this

"Checked luggage will be available to and from all stations with checked luggage facilities."

So where is the checked luggage going? in the empty trailing drivers cab?
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
My main query on the temporary V/Locity services to Bairnsdale is this

"Checked luggage will be available to and from all stations with checked luggage facilities."

So where is the checked luggage going? in the empty trailing drivers cab?
nozza99

There's VERY little actual checked luggage these days. Most people walk up to the guard of the N Set and ask if they can leave their steamer trunk, valise or portmanteau in the van for collection at their destination. The amount of actual checked luggage is minimal.

Mike.
  nozza99 Station Master

Location: Warrnambool, Vic
My main query on the temporary V/Locity services to Bairnsdale is this

"Checked luggage will be available to and from all stations with checked luggage facilities."

So where is the checked luggage going? in the empty trailing drivers cab?

There's VERY little actual checked luggage these days. Most people walk up to the guard of the N Set and ask if they can leave their steamer trunk, valise or portmanteau in the van for collection at their destination. The amount of actual checked luggage is minimal.

Mike.
The Vinelander

Every time I ever catch the Warrnambool service (often) there is a minimal amount of people along the way but always at least 15-20 people who check luggage the whole way through WNB - SCS or vice versa.

The van is also used daily to transport medical products for the Warrnambool Red Cross through the Green Star Parcels service at the Southern Cross Booking Hall.

Enough loading to justify the van anyway
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

I’m not sure that’s completely true Mike; having witnessed station staff at Benalla wheel their full trolley with 8-10 bags down to the van for yesterday’s lunchtime up Albury, and a second trolley load waiting in the office for the down train due shortly after, I can’t see why this loading wouldn’t be replicated elsewhere.

Regardless of whether what’s in the van is checked or not, though, there’s nowhere near the amount of luggage space on a 3VL set that’s used on some of the presen long-haul services.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
I guess it depends on the line as I use the Swan Hill service most and that's the case at Swan Hill.

Happy to stand corrected if the amount of booked luggage from other places is much higher.

Mike.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
The van is also used daily to transport medical products for the Warrnambool Red Cross through the Green Star Parcels service at the Southern Cross Booking Hall.

Enough loading to justify the van anyway
nozza99

Are your referring to the baggage compartment in the ACN car, or is this utilising an actual louvre style van?

There's VERY little actual checked luggage these days. Most people walk up to the guard of the N Set and ask if they can leave their steamer trunk, valise or portmanteau in the van for collection at their destination. The amount of actual checked luggage is minimal.
The Vinelander
I doubt many people are rolling up with a steamer trunk these days, although it is something I would like to see.

Also, regarding the portmanteau and valise, I had to research what these were, thank you Vinelander, I always learn something from your posts.


Just last Friday I caught the Morning Up Swan Hill from Castlemaine to Southern Cross and was a little bit surprised at the amount of luggage being collected from the ACN car's baggage compartment at the end of the journey. Other observations of mine (usually at Southern Cross) have shown similar levels of use on outgoing trains. So from my limited experience their does seem to be enough demand for this service that it should be configured into any long haul Vlocity.

I don't see how it could be that difficult to add a 2nd powered trailer to a few 3VLs and to refit one end car as first class with a baggage compartment.

If that proves successful, you could then just add a 3rd powered trailer motor with a buffet installed into one end.

Why we have to complicate things in Victoria is beyond me.
  nozza99 Station Master

Location: Warrnambool, Vic
Yes Gman, I meant the baggage compartment in the ACN. dont see the louvre vans anymore other than for backup Head End Power.
With buffet being confirmed in new V/Locity trailer cars, surely another trailer would be provided with the same facilities as an ACN (first class which is well utilised and the guards/baggage compartment).

The Other issue is that with what is so far confirmed, a 4 car V/Locity with buffet, there isn't enough seating. 6 connected carriages would be vital to match the capacity of a 5 car N Set  
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

In Europe there are many trains with bogies than can change their setting depending on the gauge they run on. They run the train over a conversion device and the bogie automatically adjust to the change of gauge. Eg BG or NG over to SG. It then locks the bogie change into place. On the return trip the bogie uses the same technology to change back again. So no need for dual gauge track. We should do this here and make the issue of dual gauge track irrelevant.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

One is to wonder what is to become of the N class locos. Shall they be left to rot in the yards as has become of the A and P class locos or shall they be sold on to freight and heritage groups
Dangersdan707
If the Coalition get in they will rebuild all the N Class locos and the N Class Carriages and pass them off as new to save money and then bang on about how fiscally responsible they are whilst still provide rolling stock.

Michael
  cabidass Chief Train Controller

The latest edition of the RTBU Vic newsletter contains some interesting information about the transition of VLocities to long-distance services....
potatoinmymouth

Much of this was already known and stated in early media releases at the time. I had posted and reposted much of it, but may have been in the Gippy thread, as I can't seem to find it in this one.

The revelation is that the H and N sets will be retired by 2022. Which means that I have 4 years to save up to buy my beloved N carriage, and find a plot to put it on.

That is presuming that it all goes to schedule and isn't delayed by any incoming Liberal led government.

I note that Vline is currently turning the N fleet into purple coloured Turkish delights like the rest of the fleet...
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

One is to wonder what is to become of the N class locos. Shall they be left to rot in the yards as has become of the A and P class locos or shall they be sold on to freight and heritage groups
If the Coalition get in they will rebuild all the N Class locos and the N Class Carriages and pass them off as new to save money and then bang on about how fiscally responsible they are whilst still provide rolling stock.

Michael
mejhammers1
No. I have it on very good authority that brand new rolling stock is on the coalition's agenda, by 2019.
  n459L1150 Train Controller

Location: at sunbury on a V/line service into melbourne, waiting for thousands of impatient people to get on
but what will happen to all the carriages, and Loco's we won't be using? why not just donate the named Engines to the named cities if they still want them
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

but what will happen to all the carriages, and Loco's we won't be using? why not just donate the named Engines to the named cities if they still want them
n459L1150
I expect that a few N Class locos (say 4-5) will be retained for emergencies. So those in the best mechanical condition, while still using the more powerful D77 traction motors. The rest will be sold to the freight operators, who are short of BG locos. Keeping in mind that there are some very old BG locos out there. If they did a total rebuild of the N Class including D77 traction motors, that would still be cheaper than buying new BG locos. So 18-20 "rebuilt locos" with a 15 year life extension and a 2,450hp capacity, plus dual cabs, would come in very handy.

All but a couple of carriage sets would be either scrapped or handed off to rail enthusiast groups. Along with perhaps a loco or two.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
but what will happen to all the carriages, and Loco's we won't be using? why not just donate the named Engines to the named cities if they still want them
I expect that a few N Class locos (say 4-5) will be retained for emergencies. So those in the best mechanical condition, while still using the more powerful D77 traction motors. The rest will be sold to the freight operators, who are short of BG locos. Keeping in mind that there are some very old BG locos out there. If they did a total rebuild of the N Class including D77 traction motors, that would still be cheaper than buying new BG locos. So 18-20 "rebuilt locos" with a 15 year life extension and a 2,450hp capacity, plus dual cabs, would come in very handy.

All but a couple of carriage sets would be either scrapped or handed off to rail enthusiast groups. Along with perhaps a loco or two.
Duncs
Will the freight operators want them or will they want newer locos?
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Will the freight operators want them or will they want newer locos?
james.au

Given there are still some poor old Bs running around I'd say the Ns will look positively youthful!
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
Will the freight operators want them or will they want newer locos?
james.au
Depends who the operator is Wink
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

Will the freight operators want them or will they want newer locos?

Given there are still some poor old Bs running around I'd say the Ns will look positively youthful!
potatoinmymouth
If the N's got a total rebuild they would be good for another 15 years. Two N's represents around 5,000 Hp which would easily pull any intra Victorian freight at 80kph.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
How broadly could they be used on the SG network?  Where do they fit in with the 3000hp fleets floating around?  Are they any good for freight?
  woodford Chief Commissioner

How broadly could they be used on the SG network?  Where do they fit in with the 3000hp fleets floating around?  Are they any good for freight?
james.au
The Victorian N class locomotives with a weight of 123 tons are essentially a freight locomotive with head end power. So should do freight work OK. I have found they are not very popular with drivers as they ride quite poorly. Another small issue is as standard they are fitted with what is effect an "orphan" traction motor. EMD only fitting them on around 50 machines, as a consequence its has been found on a complete rebuild its cheaper to modify the loco and fit the widely used D77 traction motors.

woodford
  Jack Le Lievre Assistant Commissioner

Location: Moolap Station, Vic
but what will happen to all the carriages, and Loco's we won't be using? why not just donate the named Engines to the named cities if they still want them
I expect that a few N Class locos (say 4-5) will be retained for emergencies. So those in the best mechanical condition, while still using the more powerful D77 traction motors. The rest will be sold to the freight operators, who are short of BG locos. Keeping in mind that there are some very old BG locos out there. If they did a total rebuild of the N Class including D77 traction motors, that would still be cheaper than buying new BG locos. So 18-20 "rebuilt locos" with a 15 year life extension and a 2,450hp capacity, plus dual cabs, would come in very handy.

All but a couple of carriage sets would be either scrapped or handed off to rail enthusiast groups. Along with perhaps a loco or two.
Duncs
Seriously, there are at least Two Threads dedicated to what is going to happen to the Ns. Conclusion, they will NOT be permitted into N.S.W. as they haven't ever run there, therefore are NOT covered by the Grandfather clause of the other Classes of locomotive, and with the shrinking B/G, they won't be much use in Vic.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Conclusion, they will NOT be permitted into N.S.W. as they haven't ever run there, therefore are NOT covered by the Grandfather clause of the other Classes of locomotive, and with the shrinking B/G, they won't be much use in Vic.
Jack Le Lievre
Interesting - i did not know this.

What these Ns might mean though is that there is locomotive power to run on the SG, removing one of the arms of justification for standardisation, ie that the older locos etc increase the cost of rail.

Danger Dan will be happy to hear this...!
  skitz Chief Commissioner

How broadly could they be used on the SG network?  Where do they fit in with the 3000hp fleets floating around?  Are they any good for freight?
The Victorian N class locomotives with a weight of 123 tons are essentially a freight locomotive with head end power. So should do freight work OK. I have found they are not very popular with drivers as they ride quite poorly. Another small issue is as standard they are fitted with what is effect an "orphan" traction motor. EMD only fitting them on around 50 machines, as a consequence its has been found on a complete rebuild its cheaper to modify the loco and fit the widely used D77 traction motors.

woodford
woodford
And the D77 makes them just as heavy as a G (of variants of BL and 81 etc, not too much different in mass, 4tonnes or so).  When it comes to unsprung mass they are every bit as unfriendly to the track with D77 traction motors.  

There was/is an issue as there were/are structures around the system that having significant speed restriction to allow for G classes, yet the N has line speed being essentially the same - the change and engineering having not been consistent or followed up perhaps with the change of traction motors?
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

The D77 traction motors make an N class 126 tons, up from 123 tons. The G class is 128 tons the BL class 129 tons. The D 77 is a common traction motor in that provides better traction performance that the D43 (why the D 43 was ever selected is beyond me) and so these middle weight locos can be very valuable on the BG network. They are lighter than the older C class at 135 tons. Only slightly higher then the XR class at 124 tons.

Keep in mind that freight locos only run at 80 kph in Victoria, as opposed to 115 for passenger loco trains. So at a slower speed the ride quality of the N class should be better as a freight locomotive, when compared the the passenger locomotive.  

Finally the HEP unit can be very handy for powering refrigerated freight wagons in the summer heat.

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