'Visionary': The new plan for a Canberra to Eden railway line

 
Topic moved from News by dthead on 26 Feb 2019 13:14
  SinickleBird Chief Train Controller

Location: Qantas Club at Mudgee International Airport
Nimmitabel can become a dormitory suburb for Canberra, with regular commuter trains. Not to mention rail-boat fishing charters out of Eden to entertain our public servants on the weekend.

Sponsored advertisement

  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Why is it wrong to consider freight requirements for the nsw south coast ?
  michaelgm Deputy Commissioner

The only consideration for freight requirements on the NSW south coast and region is both the Princes and Monaro highways.
Bombala line closed. Coast line finishes at Bombaderry. Orbost line closed.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Why is it wrong to consider freight requirements for the nsw south coast ?
freightgate

Not sure what is wrong but I don't think this has any chance of ever coming to fruition. The line to cooma or bombala would require significant rebuilding in many parts with old wooden bridges needing to be replaced by steel or concrete structures. An extension to Eden would be extremely difficult due to the terrain and what advantage would it really provide to the area.

With the upsurge in cruise ships stopping, eden has a chance to have a large tourist economy.
  apw5910 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
Nimmitabel can become a dormitory suburb for Canberra, with regular commuter trains. Not to mention rail-boat fishing charters out of Eden to entertain our public servants on the weekend.
SinickleBird
"Batemans Bay demands next extension of the Canberra Light Rail to go to their town"...
  michaelgm Deputy Commissioner

Braidwood demands station on the light rail Batemans Bay extension.
  ivahri Train Controller

Why is it wrong to consider freight requirements for the nsw south coast ?
freightgate
Why is it wrong to believe the earth is flat?

Different questions, same answer.

Consider all you like but at the end of the day you aren't going to change reality.

The big issue I have with this proposal is the use of public funds to pay consultants to write a report that could be written for free. No there is no money, no there is no economic driver, yes it will cost billions...  Those public funds would be better spent on the services people need & not to make a well heeled BS writer even more well heeled...

If you can't make a line like Harden-Blayney pay its way this line has not a hope of even coming close...
  ivahri Train Controller

Braidwood demands station on the light rail Batemans Bay extension.
michaelgm
via Captains Flat...
  ivahri Train Controller

This cruise ship furphy cracks me up...

So what if cruise ships come into Twofold Bay? They can go bush via bus... the bus can take them places the trains cannot. Are you going build a light rail line to Boydtown or Green Cape? Or for those who want to go up Imlay why not build a funicular?

Someone is sitting back & having a good laugh that this proposal is even getting discussed. It proves how many of us are bored and how a few are so gullible.

If those cruise ship passengers did want to fly out why would they go to Canberra? Any ship will also go to Sydney & Melbourne- they would disembark there.

And I'm sure Rex has capacity on its Merimbula flights...
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Why is it wrong to consider freight requirements for the nsw south coast ?
"freightgate"
It's not wrong to consider them.
It is also not wrong to deduce that there is no case whatsoever for this dream rail line.  If, and I repeat, if,  a railway is ever needed for the south coast, stick a bridge over the Shoalhaven River and go south from Bomaderry.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Dingaling Dan has awoken from his holiday to Java. Any chance that light rail extension can go via Yogyakarta? The locals seem to miss the trams of old. I Look forward to seeing Cooma as an All change station. It’s more likely that the Orbost line will be rebuilt than this happening in my lifetime. The definition of Pie in the sky
  a6et Minister for Railways

Why is it wrong to consider freight requirements for the nsw south coast ?
It's not wrong to consider them.
It is also not wrong to deduce that there is no case whatsoever for this dream rail line.  If, and I repeat, if,  a railway is ever needed for the south coast, stick a bridge over the Shoalhaven River and go south from Bomaderry.
Valvegear
That was proposed many years ago, and knocked on the head owing to problem in bridging over the Shoalhaven River. The big problem that was discovered was the depth the had to drill down also how far on each side of the Shoalhaven river they would need to set the needed footings for the bridge.  The river also has huge flood problems at that point and at the time of the study costs were prohibitive, other aspect was how many rivers beyond Nowra were there that would have to be built over, all of them very much flood prone.

Today the footings problem may not be as bad owing to modern engineering abilities, thing is though the Illawarra to the far south coast does not have the population centres that even the NCL has, Weekends in many of the towns have more Canberra people there as many own weekenders in places like Ulladulla, Batemans Bay and beyond.  

Even though the area is considered to be a long coastal plain/strip, its also very hilly over the whole stretch travel by road shows up much of that sort of a problem and would be worse trying to get a rail line in place unless limitless cash was found.
  Lockspike Assistant Commissioner

I think you'll find its an area of cattle and maybe sheep and "some timber" but not alot of else.

Cooma had a railway, there was minimal traffic. Even the truncated section lost what little timber traffic was able to reopen that part of the line.
On a visit to Cooma in 1978 I was impressed with how busy the yard was.
"Minimal traffic"(?); sure they weren't dragging millions of tonnes of rocks out of there but there was a brisk trade in general freight.
1978? Seriously? That is 40 years ago...

Road transport links in and out of Cooma have improved so much in 40 years. The highway to Canberra has dramatically improved- a truck load of general freight can do the trip in under 90 minutes. A train? 2-3 hours?

If anyone thinks Cooma can generate the volume of traffic needed, then why are the busier towns of Cowra and Young still without a rail service? If those towns can't justify the investment to restore rail services, then this has not a hope in hell of finding an investor.


Richard
ivahri
Correct, 1978 was 40 yrs ago.
My post was by way of pointing out that Cooma wasn't a mere railway backwater. The Cooma line was built to the mainline standards of the day. It was one of the early long distance lines built in NSW and was considered economically important to the state (and the bank balances of the conservative socialist landed gentry).

I do not think a railway from Canberra to Eden is viable.
  michaelgm Deputy Commissioner

Little doubt in 1978, Cooma would have been a hive of activity. Small loadings packed into louvre vans or maybe even S trucks.
Stevedores equipment was supplied by the local footy team, and other young locals. They were employed and out of trouble.

Now they leave town.
  a6et Minister for Railways

Little doubt in 1978, Cooma would have been a hive of activity. Small loadings packed into louvre vans or maybe even S trucks.
Stevedores equipment was supplied by the local footy team, and other young locals. They were employed and out of trouble.
michaelgm
I would actually suggest that 1978 was on the edge of changes that were still taking affect from Shirley's time, with a heck of a lot of general freight having been turned away.

If one wants to look at freight figures likely go back to pre Shirley days, especially after the 65/66 drought broke, but even during that drought there was a lot of freight traffic on the South, the powers in charge were rubbing their hands with delight over the drought as they were wanting to use it to be rid of steam.  While that backfired a bit in certain areas especially the short south and parts of the north as well it did allow for an extension of steam services and busy times on the line.
  fzr560 Chief Train Controller

To be fair, the only way that i see this being viable is if there is a mining resource discovered and developed in that region (unlikely at the moment), or if cold weather wheats are developed which could see the Monaro change to a grain producing area (there a rich volcanic soils down there that some compare to the Ukraine so given the right varieties they could produce well.

At the present this plan is purely speculative.
james.au
I am very surprised that the region is home to rich volcanic soils. Driving through the area would suggest that even native Australian vegetation struggles to survive and native flora has spent many millions of years adapting to Australia's generally poor soils. If the soils are high in nutrients, why does the region not support a more intensive form of agriculture than sheep?
  apw5910 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
To be fair, the only way that i see this being viable is if there is a mining resource discovered and developed in that region (unlikely at the moment), or if cold weather wheats are developed which could see the Monaro change to a grain producing area (there a rich volcanic soils down there that some compare to the Ukraine so given the right varieties they could produce well.

At the present this plan is purely speculative.
I am very surprised that the region is home to rich volcanic soils. Driving through the area would suggest that even native Australian vegetation struggles to survive and native flora has spent many millions of years adapting to Australia's generally poor soils. If the soils are high in nutrients, why does the region not support a more intensive form of agriculture than sheep?
fzr560
Granite doesn't come out of volcanoes...
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
To be fair, the only way that i see this being viable is if there is a mining resource discovered and developed in that region (unlikely at the moment), or if cold weather wheats are developed which could see the Monaro change to a grain producing area (there a rich volcanic soils down there that some compare to the Ukraine so given the right varieties they could produce well.

At the present this plan is purely speculative.
I am very surprised that the region is home to rich volcanic soils. Driving through the area would suggest that even native Australian vegetation struggles to survive and native flora has spent many millions of years adapting to Australia's generally poor soils. If the soils are high in nutrients, why does the region not support a more intensive form of agriculture than sheep?
fzr560
The majority of the region is pretty poor.  I didnt explain this well enough in my first post.  There are good bits towards the south, but the rest of it is marginal.

Overly the ridiculously cold nature with frosts into December and it almost looks like an arctic climate more often than not Smile
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
This cruise ship furphy cracks me up...

So what if cruise ships come into Twofold Bay? They can go bush via bus... the bus can take them places the trains cannot. Are you going build a light rail line to Boydtown or Green Cape? Or for those who want to go up Imlay why not build a funicular?

Someone is sitting back & having a good laugh that this proposal is even getting discussed. It proves how many of us are bored and how a few are so gullible.

If those cruise ship passengers did want to fly out why would they go to Canberra? Any ship will also go to Sydney & Melbourne- they would disembark there.

And I'm sure Rex has capacity on its Merimbula flights...
ivahri
is there anywhere in this country where rail benefits because of Cruise ships?

I know DVR used to have the odd charter, but that stopped years before the line was closed to the city.

Cairns-KSR maybe the only one that sees significant impact because of Cruise ships.
  apw5910 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
is there anywhere in this country where rail benefits because of Cruise ships?
RTT_Rules
Not Australia, but the steam train from Picton to Blenheim (NZ South Island, Marlborough wine region) is sold out by cruise trip passengers whenever a ship is in port.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
is there anywhere in this country where rail benefits because of Cruise ships?
Not Australia, but the steam train from Picton to Blenheim (NZ South Island, Marlborough wine region) is sold out by cruise trip passengers whenever a ship is in port.
apw5910
You mentioned the magic four letter word, WINE

Australia could be better organised to capitalise on the cruise ship market but doesn't seem interested.

Anyway, look at the North Coast Line, runs through 800km of towns from Newcastle to Brisbane, of far greater population, industry and agriculture with almost no local shipping terminals than down to Eden and how many of these uterlise rail?

The line to Eden would be pretty, but an economic failure.
  ivahri Train Controller

To be fair, the only way that i see this being viable is if there is a mining resource discovered and developed in that region (unlikely at the moment), or if cold weather wheats are developed which could see the Monaro change to a grain producing area (there a rich volcanic soils down there that some compare to the Ukraine so given the right varieties they could produce well.

At the present this plan is purely speculative.
I am very surprised that the region is home to rich volcanic soils. Driving through the area would suggest that even native Australian vegetation struggles to survive and native flora has spent many millions of years adapting to Australia's generally poor soils. If the soils are high in nutrients, why does the region not support a more intensive form of agriculture than sheep?
fzr560
Anyone who has got a car bogged in that rich volcanic soil will vouch for how good that soil is. It is black bassalt soil around Nimmitabel...

You do realise that Nimmitabel is 1100m ASL? What would you suggest as an alternative to breeding some of the best lamb in the world?

Don't tell those cotton producers... they'll come up with an Alpine variant & suck out what great spring water the bottle water suppliers aren't already trucking away...
  ivahri Train Controller

This cruise ship furphy cracks me up...

So what if cruise ships come into Twofold Bay? They can go bush via bus... the bus can take them places the trains cannot. Are you going build a light rail line to Boydtown or Green Cape? Or for those who want to go up Imlay why not build a funicular?

Someone is sitting back & having a good laugh that this proposal is even getting discussed. It proves how many of us are bored and how a few are so gullible.

If those cruise ship passengers did want to fly out why would they go to Canberra? Any ship will also go to Sydney & Melbourne- they would disembark there.

And I'm sure Rex has capacity on its Merimbula flights...
is there anywhere in this country where rail benefits because of Cruise ships?

I know DVR used to have the odd charter, but that stopped years before the line was closed to the city.

Cairns-KSR maybe the only one that sees significant impact because of Cruise ships.
RTT_Rules
Circular Quay does a roaring trade...
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

This cruise ship furphy cracks me up...

So what if cruise ships come into Twofold Bay? They can go bush via bus... the bus can take them places the trains cannot. Are you going build a light rail line to Boydtown or Green Cape? Or for those who want to go up Imlay why not build a funicular?

Someone is sitting back & having a good laugh that this proposal is even getting discussed. It proves how many of us are bored and how a few are so gullible.

If those cruise ship passengers did want to fly out why would they go to Canberra? Any ship will also go to Sydney & Melbourne- they would disembark there.

And I'm sure Rex has capacity on its Merimbula flights...
ivahri

Who suggested such. I said the line was never going to happen and nothing about the rail line connecting the port to Canberra.
  ivahri Train Controller

From the article:

"Photo: Cooma Monaro Progress Association Mr Mitchell says that rather than waiting for a high-speed railway from Canberra to Sydney, his plan would open up areas of untapped potential, with the capital to reap the benefits of a rail link with the deep-water port of Eden.

"Canberra Airport could position itself as the gateway of choice for both air-freight and passenger travel for virtually the entirety of southern regional New South Wales, and perhaps much of eastern Victoria," he writes in the concept plan."

Further, the same argument has been used as a justification for the line in other forums.

I never mentioned you Sims... I don't know why you think I was referring to you.

Sponsored advertisement

Display from: