Trains to Echuca wharf

 
Topic moved from News by dthead on 11 Aug 2018 13:16
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Why can't this be achieved when the line has been used in the past for steam? 

I thought the lead was off the yard not the main?

Trains to Echuca wharf

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  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: no longer in Sydney
Why can't this be achieved when the line has been used in the past for steam?  

I thought the lead was off the yard not the main?

Trains to Echuca wharf
x31
Hardly "News" is it. Since when does a question that someone has added to the News section become News?

Anyway, the track diagram says otherwise.

http://www.signaldiagramsandphotos.com/mywebpages/vr/Northern_&_Midland/18'2017.pdf

Then you have a 'little problem' of the level Crossing through the roundabout to be reinstated.

And for what purpose?, maybe one tourist train a year?

There are other places more deserving of the money that would be needed.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
While I'm sure the LX issue can be resolved cheap enough for irregular services, the line does seem rather short and question why bother?

For the 700m or so of track beyond the round about, why not just disconnect from the main and remove the round about track age and just run a horse drawn tram or something else small and practical up and down the heritage port line that has some link to the past. Steam engine is an option, but will prove costly over time. Yes you could run to the station, but why considering the complications and costs involved?
  Valvegear The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Norda Fittazroy
The "idea" of trains to Echuca wharf appears about every two years.
It has been flogged to death, and it won't happen, one of the main reasons being a major road crossing/roundabout.
  BigShunter Deputy Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
I reckon it's probably 12 years, since a train went to the wharf, because Tim Fizzer, wrote about the lack of connection, to the port, in his rail review, of the Victorian system, in about 2007 - 8.

BigShunter.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Why can't this be achieved when the line has been used in the past for steam?  

I thought the lead was off the yard not the main?

Trains to Echuca wharf

Then you have a 'little problem' of the level Crossing through the roundabout to be reinstated.

And for what purpose?, maybe one tourist train a year?

There are other places more deserving of the money that would be needed.
mikesyd

When PN surrendered its presence in Victoria it undertook some vandalism before clearing out.

The branch to the Wharf was cut and about 1 meter of track was removed.

I wrote to the Campaspe Shire at Echuca about their possible support of reinstating the branch line as the morning train from Melbourne, particularly on weekends could stop at the Wharf platform and the pax would already be right in the middle of the Port of Echuca tourist precinct.

However the Campaspe Shire is a car advocate and cannot grasp that the appeal of a train load of tourists arriving at the Port would actually bring lots of $$ to Echuca.

Campaspe's concerns were the train travelling through the roundabout to access the Port and the potential for worse traffic than is currently the case.

Since that time though, I believe a second Murray River crossing is in the pipeline, so I'll follow this subject up at another future time.

Mike.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Are you saying PN deliberately severed the line?
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland


When PN surrendered its presence in Victoria it undertook some vandalism before clearing out.

The branch to the Wharf was cut and about 1 meter of track was removed.

The Vinelander
I wouldn't say that was correct !

When the Wharf line was first built, I came off a dead end siding from the Echuca yard (with no direct access to the platform without a setback move)

After train movements on the line were banned (red tape), the down end of Echuca yard was altered, where a turnout for the Wharf line was Installed In the mainline (the old siding It lead off reverted back to a dead end siding) though this mainline turnout has never been commissioned (spiked In the normal position and fishplates to join the turnout to the Wharf line never have been Installed.

Unlikely the line will see a train again, because of the high cost of Installing all the required signalling equipment.

Better off having a horse and cart or steam tractor and trailer waiting at the station, to take passengers through the streets to the historic port area.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Are you saying PN deliberately severed the line?
bevans
and even if they did, was it commercially the wrong decision to do?
  potatoinmymouth Deputy Commissioner

http://www.signaldiagramsandphotos.com/mywebpages/vr/IndividualStations/ECHUCA.html
Weirdly, the wharf line doesn’t appear on any diagrams on this page between 1987 and 2010, then makes a reappearance in 2011. What’s the story there? When was the line actually built?
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
http://www.signaldiagramsandphotos.com/mywebpages/vr/IndividualStations/ECHUCA.html
Weirdly, the wharf line doesn’t appear on any diagrams on this page between 1987 and 2010, then makes a reappearance in 2011. What’s the story there? When was the line actually built?
potatoinmymouth
When did the railway reach the wharf, not that long ago, but around 1864! Smile

From wiki

A short branch line between Echuca and the port opened with the line, but was closed in 1971. In 2000, $150,000 funding for the reconstruction of the line was provided.[6] By 2002 work was underway, with the cost increased to $330,000. However, by 2007 the branch was out of use and disconnected from the main line.[7]

The line north of Echuca closed in 2007, but was reopened in October 2013



Comment
$150k was provided to rebuild less than 900m of track???? and later became $330k? How?

Sounds like in 2007, the railway gave up on anything north of the station.

IF and thats a big IF, you could find a practical and regular and financially secure way to have a historic shuttle between station and wharf I'd be all for it. But these rarely have a longterm outcome. The round about doesn't help, but its not the only stumbling block.

Horse drawn up the branch line, terminating at the round about near the heritage centre is more than sufficient.
  woodford Chief Commissioner

http://www.signaldiagramsandphotos.com/mywebpages/vr/IndividualStations/ECHUCA.html
Weirdly, the wharf line doesn’t appear on any diagrams on this page between 1987 and 2010, then makes a reappearance in 2011. What’s the story there? When was the line actually built?
When did the railway reach the wharf, not that long ago, but around 1864! Smile

From wiki

A short branch line between Echuca and the port opened with the line, but was closed in 1971. In 2000, $150,000 funding for the reconstruction of the line was provided.[6] By 2002 work was underway, with the cost increased to $330,000. However, by 2007 the branch was out of use and disconnected from the main line.[7]

The line north of Echuca closed in 2007, but was reopened in October 2013



Comment
$150k was provided to rebuild less than 900m of track???? and later became $330k? How?

Sounds like in 2007, the railway gave up on anything north of the station.

IF and thats a big IF, you could find a practical and regular and financially secure way to have a historic shuttle between station and wharf I'd be all for it. But these rarely have a longterm outcome. The round about doesn't help, but its not the only stumbling block.

Horse drawn up the branch line, terminating at the round about near the heritage centre is more than sufficient.
RTT_Rules
I was told by a railway worker the reason why the port branch was cut was that the body responsible for railways in Victoria wanted signalling installed on the branch and the locals did not wish to spend that much money.

woodford
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
IF and thats a big IF, you could find a practical and regular and financially secure way to have a historic shuttle between station and wharf I'd be all for it. But these rarely have a longterm outcome. The round about doesn't help, but its not the only stumbling block.

Horse drawn up the branch line, terminating at the round about near the heritage centre is more than sufficient.
I was told by a railway worker the reason why the port branch was cut was that the body responsible for railways in Victoria wanted signalling installed on the branch and the locals did not wish to spend that much money.

woodford
woodford
If this was only going to be an irregular occurrence for the occasional excursion train then I don't see why they couldn't just send a signaler up there and implement a full occupation, radio that back to Centrol or whoever controls the section and then run the train.

When they do mainline transfers at Castlemaine that is what happens and although I do not know how big the section that comes under total occupation is I have always presumed it is just the entirety of 2 road. It is not a complicated process although obviously it is a very well thought out and planned one. It is fascinating to watch how much care and caution goes into it to avoid the possibility of any mistakes (ALL done under strict V/Line control by V/Line staff including loco crew bringing the train or LE from 2 road across to the VGR line and vice versa)

I suspect Echuca Wharf is more about the road traffic disruptions (it is a major bottleneck around there) and the council and others not really being that interested - there are plenty of trips run up there now and most offer shuttle bus services to the Port or other destinations such as paddle steamer berths for a lunch trip.

BG
  LowndesJ515 #TeamRog

Location: Goulburn
Dealt with this issue a few years back now. Major problem was that V/Line wanted to install a point motor at the junction with signalling interlocked with the round-a-bout lights. The $$$ was massive and no one wanted to spend that for only a few trains a year, which was totally understandable.

All concentration went into the Maldon project with the hopes of getting a point motor installed at Castlemaine to enter/exit the branch, start running trains to Echuca regularly from Castlemaine then see what happens. At the time, SRV couldn't commit to running a regular service from Melbourne to Echuca. I'm not sure where all of its up to these days as i'm no longer down there.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Are you saying PN deliberately severed the line?
bevans

In a word...unequivocally...YES Exclamation

Furthermore a former Deputy PM said so as well, to me and I believe on the record as well.

Buses would not be required BG if pax were already on the wharf and can simply step a few paces to the paddle steamers.

If V/Line are to ever reinstate the line to the Wharf platform AFTER the second river crossing is completed, there would be a HUGE tourist market and the Wharf platform would likely be used on all weekends and by tourist trains.

Be rest assured, in a move of unmitigated spite, PN cut one meter of rails just after where the Wharf branch leaves the main line.

Go...look for yourself, I have Exclamation

Mike.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Thanks Mike.  Aside from the obvious tourist benefits railways are a public service and should be there for the public as a service.  Projects like the wharf line (I think was installed by the ALP?) should be a key part of the giving back to the community piece.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Buses would not be required BG if pax were already on the wharf and can simply step a few paces to the paddle steamers.

If V/Line are to ever reinstate the line to the Wharf platform AFTER the second river crossing is completed, there would be a HUGE tourist market and the Wharf platform would likely be used on all weekends and by tourist trains.

Mike.
The Vinelander
I don't disagree Mike but I think if and when the frequency of tourist trains to Echuca increases to what all parties see as a sustainable level then some changes will be made. ATM the situation is not ideal but not intolerable, I did a trip on the Echuca Overlander last year and we just walked into town skipping the bus altogether and had lunch at The Star pub. If we had taken up one of the add-ons like lunch on a steamer we would have taken the complimentary bus straight to the berth (most of which are on the opposite side of the port from the station)

There is a lot of work going on behind the scenes between operators and people on the ground in Echuca, council and other interested parties are being kept up to date on goings on.

Council has a bigger vested interest than anyone - they own almost all of the historic properties in the wharf precinct including pubs, shops and restaurants and receive rents from those properties. More visitors = more $$$ through the tills = higher rents that can be charged.

BG
  scumcock Station Master

Buses would not be required BG if pax were already on the wharf and can simply step a few paces to the paddle steamers.

If V/Line are to ever reinstate the line to the Wharf platform AFTER the second river crossing is completed, there would be a HUGE tourist market and the Wharf platform would likely be used on all weekends and by tourist trains.

Mike.
I don't disagree Mike but I think if and when the frequency of tourist trains to Echuca increases to what all parties see as a sustainable level then some changes will be made. ATM the situation is not ideal but not intolerable, I did a trip on the Echuca Overlander last year and we just walked into town skipping the bus altogether and had lunch at The Star pub. If we had taken up one of the add-ons like lunch on a steamer we would have taken the complimentary bus straight to the berth (most of which are on the opposite side of the port from the station)

There is a lot of work going on behind the scenes between operators and people on the ground in Echuca, council and other interested parties are being kept up to date on goings on.

Council has a bigger vested interest than anyone - they own almost all of the historic properties in the wharf precinct including pubs, shops and restaurants and receive rents from those properties. More visitors = more $$$ through the tills = higher rents that can be charged.

BG
BrentonGolding
There is a bit of a movement happening in Echuca in regard to council and the port and the way more and more businesses are failing in the area check out the Riverine herald fb site for numerous articles.
Council has absolutly no interest in running trains to the wharf no matter how much tourism it brings it has been placed in the too hard basket by them.
They have completly the wrong people managing the place with no passion or real understanding of what they have or could have.
All that has been talked about has been taken to council for years with no interest by them ask yourself how many steam engines and other historic vehicles do you see down the port streets? now has not been for years something that was once heavily supported and attended when they held events.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Buses would not be required BG if pax were already on the wharf and can simply step a few paces to the paddle steamers.

If V/Line are to ever reinstate the line to the Wharf platform AFTER the second river crossing is completed, there would be a HUGE tourist market and the Wharf platform would likely be used on all weekends and by tourist trains.

Mike.
I don't disagree Mike but I think if and when the frequency of tourist trains to Echuca increases to what all parties see as a sustainable level then some changes will be made. ATM the situation is not ideal but not intolerable, I did a trip on the Echuca Overlander last year and we just walked into town skipping the bus altogether and had lunch at The Star pub. If we had taken up one of the add-ons like lunch on a steamer we would have taken the complimentary bus straight to the berth (most of which are on the opposite side of the port from the station)

There is a lot of work going on behind the scenes between operators and people on the ground in Echuca, council and other interested parties are being kept up to date on goings on.

Council has a bigger vested interest than anyone - they own almost all of the historic properties in the wharf precinct including pubs, shops and restaurants and receive rents from those properties. More visitors = more $$$ through the tills = higher rents that can be charged.

BG
BrentonGolding

I too have travelled by the Echuca Overlander a few years ago...without the cruise option and we wiled away the time sampling the local brews. I think the bus option from Echuca station would be taken up by the elderly, people with a disability and the morbidly obese.

I'm pleased to hear there may be some positive steps in reinstating the Wharf branch in the future and that Campaspe Shire Council may be more positive than they were around 5 years ago.

Mike.
  potatoinmymouth Deputy Commissioner

How receptive would V/Line really be to running their weekend VLos to the wharf? They seem to have enough trouble with long-distance lines as is without dealing with unsignalled branches.

I reckon it’s a terrific idea but as the saying goes if it ain’t the Geelong line, it’s the wrong line.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
There is a bit of a movement happening in Echuca in regard to council and the port and the way more and more businesses are failing in the area check out the Riverine herald fb site for numerous articles.
Council has absolutly no interest in running trains to the wharf no matter how much tourism it brings it has been placed in the too hard basket by them.
They have completly the wrong people managing the place with no passion or real understanding of what they have or could have.
All that has been talked about has been taken to council for years with no interest by them ask yourself how many steam engines and other historic vehicles do you see down the port streets? now has not been for years something that was once heavily supported and attended when they held events.
scumcock
Yes, the last time I was up there I spoke to a few business people in and around the port (publicans.......) and the impression I got was that things were starting to turn a little.

I just hope the work being done by people that I know bears fruit.

Either way we are sure to see more trains heading for Echuca in the next few years from Castlemaine and elsewhere.

BG
  Valvegear The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Norda Fittazroy
How receptive would V/Line really be to running their weekend VLos to the wharf?
potatoinmymouth
Zero; in fact, absolute zero.

There is no existing track, there is a road roundabout in the way, and it includes the main road from Echuca to Deniliquin, there is no signalling, and finally, V Line is fully occupied in failing to deliver an efficient country rail service.

V Line has no interest in tourism - a far cry from the days when VR advertised its service to many tourist destinations. It has been said before; V Line is run by a Board and Managers who have no prior experience of operating a railway. You want them to add something new? Forget it, mate.

I'd love to see an A2, D3, K or R steaming majestically onto the Echuca Wharf, but I'm far more likely to win Tattslotto.
They'll get to Echuca station, but no further.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Absolute nonsense... Exclamation
...and for whatever reason, clearly you have a bee in your bonnet over something V/Line has apparently upset you with.

V/Line STRONGLY supports, in particular rural tourism.

So many options in the below link that there's a drop down to limit the searches to a particular region that V/Line travels to...

https://www.vline.com.au/Escape-with-V-Line/Escape

Also, V/Line encourage volunteer ambassadors to travel on its various weekend services to/from Melbourne to highlight where pax can travel to and how to get to the attraction by PT after the train arrives at the closest station.

Moreover, you may have also heard of the annual Clunes Booktown festival which V/Line operates three additional special return trains to each day of the weekend and the patronage on those special trains has increased every year...how do I know,...I travel on them to visit other locations away from the crowds at Clunes that weekend.

I've only just touched on the possibilities for a weekend or a day away by V/Line, so if BG thinks there's a possibility of reinstating the branch to the Wharf, the old proverb will definitely apply...build it and they will come.

Now get over yourself and plan a V/Line Escape...it seems apparent that you may need it. ExclamationSmile

Mike.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
V Line has no interest in tourism - a far cry from the days when VR advertised its service to many tourist destinations. It has been said before; V Line is run by a Board and Managers who have no prior experience of operating a railway. You want them to add something new? Forget it, mate.
Valvegear
That's not quite true Valvegear, V/Line engages with quite a few organisations in Regional Victoria to promote tourism.

https://www.vline.com.au/Escape-with-V-Line/Escape

I have used this service to get discounted tix to events at the Bendigo Gallery and when they have a big exhibition on like Edith Head, Marimekko and similar the 09.14 Down Bendigo gets a big upsurge in pax numbers which is great for V/Line as it and the return trains taken by Gallery goers in the afternoon are contra peak so what would have been empty seats are paid for and taken up.

During such big events V/Line allows Bendigo Tourism Ambassadors to travel free on trains. They catch a morning Up service from The Go usually getting off at Gisborne to wait for the return train to Bendigo. They then walk the train asking all pax if they are intending to visit the exhibition or Bendigo in general and handing out information, flyers, maps etc etc.

A really good initiative and a great service to tourists. During Marimekko when visitors were encouraged to don clothes with the iconic design house's fabric you could really pick out the groups heading to Bendigo including a group of 20 or more one day from Marimekko's Melbourne HQ who all took the train dressed up to the nines for a grand day out.

BG
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Absolute nonsense... Exclamation
...and for whatever reason, clearly you have a bee in your bonnet over something V/Line has apparently upset you with.

V/Line STRONGLY supports, in particular rural tourism.

So many options in the below link that there's a drop down to limit the searches to a particular region that V/Line travels to...

https://www.vline.com.au/Escape-with-V-Line/Escape

Also, V/Line encourage volunteer ambassadors to travel on its various weekend services to/from Melbourne to highlight where pax can travel to and how to get to the attraction by PT after the train arrives at the closest station.

Moreover, you may have also heard of the annual Clunes Booktown festival which V/Line operates three additional special return trains to each day of the weekend and the patronage on those special trains has increased every year...how do I know,...I travel on them to visit other locations away from the crowds at Clunes that weekend.

I've only just touched on the possibilities for a weekend or a day away by V/Line, so if BG thinks there's a possibility of reinstating the branch to the Wharf, the old proverb will definitely apply...build it and they will come.

Now get over yourself and plan a V/Line Escape...it seems apparent that you may need it. ExclamationSmile

Mike.
The Vinelander
SNAP!

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