It's the economy, stupid!

 
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
So whatever happened to decentralisation?
Whitlam had a go, but Fraser snubbed it out:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albury–Wodonga
DirtyBallast
Strangely Fraser offered to electrify Sydney - Melbourne but the two state governments couldn't agree. Could have been a different outcome for railways in Australia?

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  locojoe67 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Gen X purgatory/urban Joh-land
...

The big tellies from the likes of HN might be a sop, to keep the masses amused. Bread and circuses direct to your living room.
It's incredible the number of people I've met recently who have gigantic TV's that take up an entire wall. There's a (insert big ezy-finance electricals chain here) that I walk past every now and again and they always have the latest ultra slick LG/Samsung/whatever with all the OLED super dark pixels, ultra fast hertz, fully WiFi and Bluetooth enabled... blah blah blah... and of course ENORMOUS @ 70 inches or something ridiculous. I love to pause and reflect on the rental/sticker price which the other day I noticed was $90 a week for 3 years. That was at least three grand over the sticker price they were advertising on "interest free", which really wasn't that free of interest because it was a lot more expensive than the sticker price. Can people not figure this out?.
don_dunstan


I think there are multiple types of buyers out there. Certainly there are plenty that fall for the ezi finance trap, thus ensuring their ongoing indebtedness and guaranteeing annual bonuses for the financiers of the nation (catchcry: just nimble it!).

But I know of at least one other category of buyer that use it as a status symbol. They are employed, work long hours, and trade up whenever the next biggest size is released.

They may be the same poeple that thought nothing of 'investing' in lotto tickets last night. It's a funny world.

Thanks for the shopping tip. We have a salvoes shop down the road from us at work. I'll have to drop in some time if we ever need another TV. Though as it is I hardly watch the (modest sized) one we already have.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

...

The big tellies from the likes of HN might be a sop, to keep the masses amused. Bread and circuses direct to your living room.
It's incredible the number of people I've met recently who have gigantic TV's that take up an entire wall. There's a (insert big ezy-finance electricals chain here) that I walk past every now and again and they always have the latest ultra slick LG/Samsung/whatever with all the OLED super dark pixels, ultra fast hertz, fully WiFi and Bluetooth enabled... blah blah blah... and of course ENORMOUS @ 70 inches or something ridiculous. I love to pause and reflect on the rental/sticker price which the other day I noticed was $90 a week for 3 years. That was at least three grand over the sticker price they were advertising on "interest free", which really wasn't that free of interest because it was a lot more expensive than the sticker price. Can people not figure this out?.


I think there are multiple types of buyers out there. Certainly there are plenty that fall for the ezi finance trap, thus ensuring their ongoing indebtedness and guaranteeing annual bonuses for the financiers of the nation (catchcry: just nimble it!).

But I know of at least one other category of buyer that use it as a status symbol. They are employed, work long hours, and trade up whenever the next biggest size is released.

They may be the same poeple that thought nothing of 'investing' in lotto tickets last night. It's a funny world.

Thanks for the shopping tip. We have a salvoes shop down the road from us at work. I'll have to drop in some time if we ever need another TV. Though as it is I hardly watch the (modest sized) one we already have.
locojoe67
When I was at High School, all Year 10 students had to do a subject called "Money Management".  And then there was the 'recession we had to have' and 'Jeff Kennett's Victoria' to instill a bit of fear about debt, compound interest with 17% P.A Interest Rates, and wasteful spending.  It was a different era.

Today it's "Status Anxiety", the $10000 H.N bedroom purchased Interest Free, Loan Shark Apps on your smartphone, ubiquitous one-armed bandits (pokies), and dodgey cosmetic surgery joints next door to Centrelink (yes, it's true - http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-13/cheap-breast-implants-marketed-to-women-on-welfare/10093612

Rule #1: Only take out a loan on appreciable assets (i.e. property, business).
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
I think there are multiple types of buyers out there. Certainly there are plenty that fall for the ezi finance trap, thus ensuring their ongoing indebtedness and guaranteeing annual bonuses for the financiers of the nation (catchcry: just nimble it!).

But I know of at least one other category of buyer that use it as a status symbol. They are employed, work long hours, and trade up whenever the next biggest size is released.

They may be the same poeple that thought nothing of 'investing' in lotto tickets last night. It's a funny world.

Thanks for the shopping tip. We have a salvoes shop down the road from us at work. I'll have to drop in some time if we ever need another TV. Though as it is I hardly watch the (modest sized) one we already have.
locojoe67
Thanks, Joe - I did have an "investment" myself in last night's hysteria but I knew full well what I was buying - a few days of fantasy before the inevitable disappointment.

Op shops are incredible, I'm always trawling them in my spare time. Sure there's a lot of crap you have to wade through but occasionally you find really good quality things very cheap. People throw away consumer durables because they're slightly unfashionable, they bought something even better, or it's only a 40 inch TV (ugh!) and they don't want to be seen with it any more. Clothes too, it's incredible the amount of brand new never-worn with tags clothes you manage to find. I guess people buy stuff then can't be bothered taking it back when it doesn't fit?
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
When I was at High School, all Year 10 students had to do a subject called "Money Management".  And then there was the 'recession we had to have' and 'Jeff Kennett's Victoria' to instill a bit of fear about debt, compound interest with 17% P.A Interest Rates, and wasteful spending.  It was a different era.

Today it's "Status Anxiety", the $10000 H.N bedroom purchased Interest Free, Loan Shark Apps on your smartphone, ubiquitous one-armed bandits (pokies), and dodgey cosmetic surgery joints next door to Centrelink (yes, it's true - http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-13/cheap-breast-implants-marketed-to-women-on-welfare/10093612

Rule #1: Only take out a loan on appreciable assets (i.e. property, business).
Carnot
I always encourage kids and young people to use cash rather than card because it's just too easy and its easier to budget when you can actually count what's left in your wallet. I only use Pay-wave very occasionally and I tend to budget better if I use cash.

People look at you stupid if you tell them that mortgage rates were once 17% - they simply don't believe that rates were ever that high - in fact they were that high and it's really not that long ago that "the recession we had to have" got those rates that high.

I happened to see that Four Corners on Monday night and the predatory practices of these surgeries wasn't really that much of a surprise - they partner with finance companies to make their backyard surgeries affordable. Sad really that women (mostly) fall prey to these sharks, says volumes about how they feel judged by society based on their looks I guess.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
New car sales have suddenly tanked in the last few months - (Sydney Morning Herald);

Car sales are dropping. July sales were down 8 per cent and followed May and June which recorded reduced volumes on the previous year. My researcher and forecaster Charlie gets very excited about car sales as an economic indicator and he tells me we are experiencing the worst decline since July 2011. Something not so good is going on and there are those who believe that car sales are like the canary in the coal mine.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
New car sales have suddenly tanked in the last few months - (Sydney Morning Herald);

Car sales are dropping. July sales were down 8 per cent and followed May and June which recorded reduced volumes on the previous year. My researcher and forecaster Charlie gets very excited about car sales as an economic indicator and he tells me we are experiencing the worst decline since July 2011. Something not so good is going on and there are those who believe that car sales are like the canary in the coal mine.
don_dunstan
Good run for a number of years though.
Consumer confidence is OK considering all the uncertainty around trade wars and declining house values. The latest stats show we have zero wages growth after inflation but the government and its supporters cut penalty rates Razz

Whilst the great crusade of our times is that $550 pa 'saving' in electricity no one is doing anything about this.  
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-16/more-than-one-million-australians-cant-afford-to-see-a-doctor/10124794
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Good run for a number of years though.
Consumer confidence is OK considering all the uncertainty around trade wars and declining house values. The latest stats show we have zero wages growth after inflation but the government and its supporters cut penalty rates Razz
Groundrelay
Nobody in hospitality was getting paid the award anyway - the Fair Work Commission determined that most employers simply don't bother. The worst offenders are people ripping off people from their own ethnicity ie: Indians and Chinese bringing in people from their home country and exploiting the buggery out of them.

What we're seeing in this country is a complete unravelling of living standards using record immigration to keep wage pressures down - and the absence of organised labour to stop it. There's nothing that can be done to reverse it - hell, what do university students protest about now-days? Certainly they're not interested in the plight of the poor in Australia and they don't have representation in the Greens or the (so-called) Labor Party either.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Google staff secretly protest at working on an application that automatically censors undesirable things for the Chinese Communist Party (Buzzfeed);

Dragonfly, which Google has been working on for a little over year, would be a search engine for Chinese users that would censor certain terms and sources from search results, including Wikipedia and some news articles, according to the Intercept. Google has already shown the Chinese government a version of the Android app, which could be launched within six to nine months, the report says.

The debate over the ethics of building such a tool has lasted over two weeks and spanned over a thousand comments on internal posts, Google employees told BuzzFeed News... Some of that frustration is coming from the fact that Dragonfly seems at odds with Google’s stated purpose. “Google’s mission statement literally says, ‘Organize the world’s information and make it universally accessible.’ Censorship directly contradicts making information accessible,” he said. “It’s like Google capitulating to an oppressive organization … First it was the military industrial complex, now it’s China.”

Google is all about making money, they've been trying to get back into China for years but the Communist Party won't allow something that searches completely open source information and returns results.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
... Certainly they're not interested in the plight of the poor in Australia and they don't have representation in the Greens or the (so-called) Labor Party either.
don_dunstan
And yet the side you don't not align to are committed to an open labour market. Guess we should be grateful for a job and accept whatever pay and conditions are on offer.

Don’t like it you have Work Choices!

Labor/Greens and the unions are the only ones slowing this downward spiral. Not Turnbull, Abbott, Hanson, Barnaby, Dutton, 2GB, Murdoch (the usual suspects).
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Labor/Greens and the unions are the only ones slowing this downward spiral. Not Turnbull, Abbott, Hanson, Barnaby, Dutton, 2GB, Murdoch (the usual suspects).
Groundrelay
Rubbish! The Labor Party has been steadily eroding the bargaining power and conditions of workers since the eighties. You really expect them to improve access to better paid jobs for the working class? If anything they'll probably make their situation even worse by flooding the country with even more low-pay migrants and then gifting more money to the big end of town. Nothing the (so-called) Labor Party has done over the last thirty-five years has improved the lot of the working class, if anything they've been ripped off worse by the party that purports to be representing their interests.

Look at compulsory superannuation, supposedly the pay-off that workers got in the eighties in exchange for forgoing pay rises for years on end during an era of reasonably high inflation. Judith Sloan wrote a few days ago of the rip-off that superannuation has become for ordinary people, another noose around the neck of the Aussie worker placed there by Hawke/Keating (The Australian);

The argument with compulsory superannuation is that, left to their own devices, people will under-save for their retirement. They therefore must be forced to put money aside so they can contribute to their retirement ­incomes as well as lower the fiscal burden of the Age Pension. As the system of compulsory super has developed, it has become clear its two real effects are as follows.

First, it forces many people to forgo valuable current consumption — think buying a house, paying school fees and the like — in order to knock off their full entitlement to the Age Pension. In other words, it is essentially a tax — and an inefficient one at that. Second, the unmanaged basis of the super industry has created a bounty of wealth for those who run the funds and the associated entities. By international standards, our fees and charges are excessive...

...The recent Productivity Commission report clearly exposed what a dud product super is for many members. For young people with low account balances and ­potentially multiple ­accounts, super is essentially a form of theft in which funds make off with ­excessive fees and charges while deducting unwanted insurance premiums. Both retail and industry super funds are in on this game. Young adults can work through their 20s in several jobs and find that when they turn 30 their accumulated super balances are close to zero. The super industry has never tried to rectify this situation, even though it has been fully aware of the problems for years.

The compulsory superannuation system was a Labor-engineered free kick to the Sydney finance industry and it does nothing to improve the lot of poorest Australians, who are forced to pay into it regardless of their poverty and then watch as their balances are eaten up by fees and compulsory death and disability insurance (which is basically junk insurance anyway). Does this system sound like it has the workers interests at heart? Yet another Labor Party rip-off of the very poorest Australians continues unabated.
  Radioman Chief Train Controller

Hello All,

I expect the L-NP to support business against the working class ( in this instance people who are payed a wage or salary, and are therefore classed as employees ) , however, as Don Dunstan makes clear, the ALP ( whose total membership equals just over 2% of total Trade Union membership ) has followed a neo liberal policy platform for decades now, and has consistently failed to protect the working class from the rapaciousness of business and finance.

I am a supporter of Industry Super Funds in principle, as they were supposed to work like the old Commonwealth and State Superannuation Trustee Funds, which invested conservatively and with the goal of long term stability and consistent returns, which, in the main they achieved.

I well remember an interview on This Day Tonight with Peter Coachman, two conservatively dressed xWW2 veterans and RSL members who were from the Commonwealth Superannuation Board ( their lapel badges were a giveaway ! ) and a fashionably dressed executive from National Mutual Life.

The NML bloke raved on about their great returns over the last few years which, he claimed, demonstrated NML's superior financial management skills.

One of the CSB men responded that we at the CSB have to manage for the long term for our members who cannot afford for us to endanger their long term financial security. He then added that the CSB had averaged a long term return of 9% over the last 20 years , and asked the NML person to advise what their return over the same period was ? The NML person did not know. From my perspective that little encounter spoke volumes.

The Banking and Insurance Royal Commission currently underway has clearly demonstrated that these once respected institutions have deliberately and consistently followed practice of stripping their clients funds an average of around 20% per annum in various fees and charges, some of which related to the provision of no service at all.

( Today on the ABC News, the AMP Trustee Chairman ( the Trustees are supposed to protect the interest of the customer ) is reported as saying it was the fault of the investor in AMP Cash Superannuation that their returns were negative, and actually reduced their base capital. According to the RC Counsel, it was actually preferable to have banked the cash with the AMP Bank, and thereby receive a small return, than it was to invest in AMP Superannuation. )

To compound this our so called Regulators also deliberately pursued a policy of little or no prosecution for criminal activity , instead relying upon, but rarely enforcing, statutory undertakings. All in all, our Commonwealth Parliament and Governments over the last 30+ years has clearly been far more interested in looking after the corporates at the expense of the working class, small business, and the family farmers.

On this basis, as Don Dunstan points out, why should working people vote for the ALP ? The current L-NP is avowedly anti working class, and the ALP , who claim to look after working Australians, has a track record which clearly indicates otherwise , and in Bill Shorten, they have a leader whose own track record as a Union Secretary in at least some instances, leaves a lot to be desired.

On a related matter, it is also interesting that two CFMEU Delegates have endured the wrath of the Federal Court with individual fines approaching the $Million mark, yet in the same week, NT WorkSafe have been exposed as not being interested in prosecuting companies whose employees have been killed at work. ( This failing is not restricted to NT. ) Clearly, companies profits have a priority over workplace safety and the deaths of employees.

With the benefit of hindsight, it is clear that Don Dunstan's last comment about the ALP's free kick to the Sydney finance sector , which continues to rip of the low paid, is correct. Has the ALP indicated what it will do to rectify this ? At this stage , NO . And if asked, I predict the response will be to wait on the reception of the Royal Commission Report, which will then be studied in detail, etc. Which means in practice a wait of at least another 2 or more years before action, if any, will be undertaken. Then add to that, stakeholder consultation and response ( employees are not stakeholders , only beneficiaries ) will take another 2 years ,by which time most people, including MPs will forget about it, and still nothing substantial will take place. ( I sincerely hope I am wrong on this. )

It is interesting that the widely admired Warren Buffet has also pursued a long term strategy of achieving consistent returns by ensuring that management teams concentrate on long term value and returns ,  apparently based on an early 1920s textbook relating to financial management of utilities.

Regards, Radioman.
  M636C Minister for Railways

I have a CSS Pension.
Over 15 years it has declined in value since the CPI "indexation" is rigged against actual cost of living.

So at 70, I'm still working to build up a further security blanket.

The CSS did remarkably well up to about 2001.
The GFC presumably did them no good, but my pension rates had been set by then, suffering only from inflation.

I've mentioned earlier that my lump sum ended up with Westpac.
In 2008, my "Financial Adviser" appeared not to be following my instructions, quite apart from having no strategy for a declining market.

I wrote some pretty nasty letters to Westpac's CEO with copies to my local branch.

That resulted in some but not all of my trailing commissions being discontinued, and because I'd dropped a big lump of cash into the fund, I emerged with earnings of 0.75% through the GFC and pretty much the capital I went in with.

If the fees for no service had been deducted I would have done much worse, since my units were being sold off on a low market to pay the fees.

I am still amazed at the brazen stealing from contributors funds revealed in the Royal Commission.
Fortunately I had shares in AMP, not money invested with them....

I can't understand why the L-NP persist with the obviously unpopular tax cuts, which seem to just be losing them votes.

I can't decide if Abbot is actually in favour of coal power (and on what basis) or whether it is just a way of attacking Turnbull. Remembering that Turnbull preceded Abbot as leader, they've already matched the Labor debacle but want to go one better....

Dutton is presumably scared that he could lose his seat if the present lack of power policy certainty continues, even though by now there must be low risk of power shortages, and only prices are a problem.

Peter
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
Labor/Greens and the unions are the only ones slowing this downward spiral. Not Turnbull, Abbott, Hanson, Barnaby, Dutton, 2GB, Murdoch (the usual suspects).
Rubbish!
don_dunstan
See you're digging up Murdoch smeg Laughing

Your lot always sides with employers over employees and there’s 43 years of National Wage Cases to back that up. They also opposed and continue to undermine reforms like Medicare and Consumer Protection which help protect those on the wrong side of the ledger. Of course they would. After all who picks up their tab?

Fact is the only thing stopping draconian Labour laws was the ALP alternative.

Universal Superannuation was fundamentally good policy, extending that benefit to workers not covered. Its full implementation mostly occurred whilst the LNP was in office and that’s when it really became a financial planners cash cow. Costello allowed people to mortgage their homes to put it into super with huge commissions paid out, then came the GFC, Storm Financial etc.

In 1993 your lot had no plan for an ageing population and they still don’t, except to work till you drop.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
See you're digging up Murdoch smeg Laughing
Groundrelay
What, you think Judith Sloan's words are rubbish? You didn't nothing to rebut the very excellent points that she makes. Superannuation is a total rip-off for the very poorest Australians - and the Labor Party engineered it that way.
Your lot always sides with employers over employees and there’s 43 years of National Wage Cases to back that up. They also opposed and continue to undermine reforms like Medicare and Consumer Protection which help protect those on the wrong side of the ledger. Of course they would. After all who picks up their tab?
Groundrelay
Again, where have I ever said that I vote LNP? Just because I relentlessly attack the so-called "Labor" Party doesn't automatically mean I'm a LNP supporter - I just hate the assumption that the ALP are automatically better for the working class. They aren't. All you really have as a come-back is "yeah but the LNP are worse". So what? What have the ALP actually done for the working class to provide them with jobs? They're the guilty party when it comes to the rush to off-shore jobs - they started it.
Universal Superannuation was fundamentally good policy, extending that benefit to workers not covered. Its full implementation mostly occurred whilst the LNP was in office and that’s when it really became a financial planners cash cow. Costello allowed people to mortgage their homes to put it into super with huge commissions paid out, then came the GFC, Storm Financial etc.
Groundrelay
It was supposed to lead to the extinguishing of the Aged Pension for all but the very poorest - instead people engineer their finances so they can keep their money AND get Centrelink. It's a terrible policy that has enriched the oldest Australians at the expense of the young.
In 1993 your lot had no plan for an ageing population and they still don’t, except to work till you drop.
Groundrelay
Get it through your thick head - just because I hate the ALP doesn't mean I have any love at all for the LNP.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Don, agree and disagree.
In principle super is a fantastic scheme. Not perfect and could Benefit from tighter regulation to prevent people from double dipping. But therein lies a problem, too many changes, with the uncertainty attached.

In regard to insurance polices, TPD (total and permanent disability) a super provider informed me that in his 15 years in the industry, he'd seen this paid ONCE.
But all insurance is a rip off until you need it.Sad
Obviously super requires a long term strategy, some people are ignorant, lazy or simply choose the set and forget option. To their detriment.

Advice I've had in relation to my circumstances, from "experts" scratch their heads at my investment choices, rather diverse. Since mid 2012, my balance has effectively doubled, with zero contributions from me or any employer.

But given the nature of the programme, and variables/policy changes. I'll have to live to 100 to gain access.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
All you really have as a come-back is "yeah but the LNP are worse".
don_dunstan
No Don unlike you I argue the difference. I'm not a fan but I try and keep it in perspective.  

You see I don’t actually hate the Liberal Party or any of those great white hopes you're chasing. I’ve been around long enough to see what and who each side supports, opposes or ignores but more importantly I understand why. No party stands purely on its core beliefs because it counts for nought if you’re not in power. Politics is the art of the possible.

Get it through your thick head - just because I hate the ALP doesn't mean I have any love at all for the LNP.
don_dunstan
Yet again you resort to the personal insults.

As I pointed out before this 'enemy of my enemy' thing just doesn’t cut it.  You punch out volumes of stuff proclaiming how bad one side is whilst continuing this charade of impartiality. Why not put as much effort into showing "why your lot are better".
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
No Don unlike you I argue the difference. I'm not a fan but I try and keep it in perspective.  
Groundrelay
You're not trying to argue the difference, you're a Labor Party apologist, sweet and simple.
Yet again you resort to the personal insults. As I pointed out before this 'enemy of my enemy' thing just doesn’t cut it. You punch out volumes of stuff proclaiming how bad one side is whilst continuing this charade of impartiality. Why not put as much effort into showing "why your lot are better".
Groundrelay
"Why your lot are better" - who are 'my lot' again?

You deserve to be insulted because you don't actually read what I write and you don't take things in.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
No Don unlike you I argue the difference. I'm not a fan but I try and keep it in perspective.  
You're not trying to argue the difference, you're a Labor Party apologist, sweet and simple.
don_dunstan
Apologising Laughing
Unlike the alternative Labor is far from perfect so I should hate them because you do? Sorry mate but that’s your serious hang up.

Yet again you resort to the personal insults. As I pointed out before this 'enemy of my enemy' thing just doesn’t cut it. You punch out volumes of stuff proclaiming how bad one side is whilst continuing this charade of impartiality. Why not put as much effort into showing "why your lot are better".
"Why your lot are better" - who are 'my lot' again?
don_dunstan
Not surprised you’ve managed to confuse yourself. Is it Abbott now? I’ve lost track.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Apologising Laughing
Unlike the alternative Labor is far from perfect so I should hate them because you do? Sorry mate but that’s your serious hang up.
Groundrelay
Yeah - it is my "hang up". That a party that purports to represent the working class so thoroughly betrays them. How dare I be annoyed about that Rolling Eyes
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
The only problem with the Super schene is that its half arsed and unless the contribution is increased to 20%, it will be impossible to phase out the OAP.

With the 15% tax its effectively reduced to 7.5%, this will provide nothing more than a small suplementry income for lower income earners on retirement if no co-contributions are made.

In comparison
Singapore in 20% and 20% (tax requirements ?)
India is 12.5% and 12.5% and no tax deducted.

For lower income earners, the govt could provide a top up to enable them to avoid or least minimise the need for the OAP later on. In case the person dies before retiring.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
Yeah - it is my "hang up".
don_dunstan
Because few people really hate one side or the other.

Emotion clouds judgement. Your views are often simplistic, naïve, with a dollop of xenophobia in the mix. Your lesser of two weevils choices are mostly counterintuitive. Think that covers it!
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Yeah - it is my "hang up".
Because few people really hate one side or the other.

Emotion clouds judgement. Your views are often simplistic, naïve, with a dollop of xenophobia in the mix. Your lesser of two weevils choices are mostly counterintuitive. Think that covers it!
Groundrelay
Rubbish - again. My arguments are not clouded with emotion at all, they're rational and cogent. Your problem is that you don't come back with anything to actually refute what I'm saying about the treachery of the Labor Party, all you do is ad hominem against me telling me that I'm emotional, that I'm a closet LNP lover, that I'm a xenophobe (Really? Where did I write that I hate foreigners?) or that I'm somehow mentally deficient because I can't stand the fraud that is the "Labor Party".

Here's a thought: Why don't you try countering my arguments with a well thought-out defense of your beloved ALP telling me how workers in Australia have never had it so good mostly thanks to Labor and that the Hawke-Keating reforms were really about helping the working class, not smashing them in the face.

But you can't. Because it's not true.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
...Here's a thought: Why don't you try countering my arguments with a well thought-out defense of your beloved ALP telling me how workers in Australia have never had it so good mostly thanks to Labor and that the Hawke-Keating reforms were really about helping the working class, not smashing them in the face.
don_dunstan
I don't have this need to love the Labor Party or hate the Liberal Party (I do hate Nazi lovers).

Let me repeat what I wrote previously.

I’ve been around long enough to see what and who each side supports, opposes or ignores but more importantly I understand why and vote accordingly. No party stands purely on its core beliefs because it counts for nought if you’re not in power. Politics the art of the possible. Anything else is politically naïve.

I've also pointed out that you need to look at who bankrolls each side because ultimately their interests are being protected and advanced.

Please explain why do I need to agree with or like everything Labor does simply because you don't. Does that mean you agree or like everything the other side does?
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Economists plead for Australia's turbo-charged immigration rate to be maintained in order to avoid a technical recession (Financial Review 21/8):

An anti-immigration prime minister could dent confidence and undermine economic growth in Australia, which has relied upon population expansion to avert recession for more than 20 years.

Economists say the leadership contest could also spillover into the housing market and rock interest rate expectations, putting the market's faith in a rate rise in 2019 in jeopardy.

"Clearly Australia is now running 26 years without a recession, but population growth has been such an important part of that," said bond fund manager Charlie Jamieson of Jamieson Coote Bonds. "A lot of current development is predicated on that continuing, particularly in the east.

"The problem Australia has got is because it's enjoyed such healthy population growth, we've got weaker GDP growth on a per capita basis than Japan and obviously much lower than most European nations and the US. It certainly would be much easier to lead us to a recession in future."

Immigration isn't doing anything other than disguising the real underlying fundamental weakness of our economy; real GDP per person in Australia has been falling since 2007, and its continuing to fall. That's the cause of our continually sacking Prime Ministers - the economy is actually rubbish, people's living standards are falling and all they've been doing is papering over the cracks.

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