Gippsland Line Upgrade

 
  cabidass Chief Train Controller

Three are cited in Traf

Ashby St (in town) #181 (so a tad behind Lloyd Moe but before Tramway Morwell)
Lochs Creek Road (which may actually be referring to Davey St??) #245
And Telephone Road (which is likely the crossing the the west of it) #262

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  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4ZiJ_rzaC0

Avon River bridge alignment has been released.

Website has a little more detail but the video shows it off best. 90km/h curve (sensible compromise IMHO).
  tom9876543 Train Controller

It's extremely disappointing that infrastructure is built to a "compromise" standard.

China is building 300km/h train lines. Europe the same.

Then backward Victoria builds a train line with top speed of 90km/h.

The Victorian government should be building an alignment suitable for 160km/h.
Anything less is a short sighted "compromise".

Ideally, as infrastructure is slowly replaced (yes it could take 200 years), the rail line to Bairsndale should be upgraded to 160km/h for the entire length. That is a suitable long term goal.

Instead we have the moronic Victoria govt building a 90km/h train line.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
It's extremely disappointing that infrastructure is built to a "compromise" standard.

China is building 300km/h train lines. Europe the same.

Then backward Victoria builds a train line with top speed of 90km/h.

The Victorian government should be building an alignment suitable for 160km/h.
Anything less is a short sighted "compromise".

Ideally, as infrastructure is slowly replaced (yes it could take 200 years), the rail line to Bairsndale should be upgraded to 160km/h for the entire length. That is a suitable long term goal.

Instead we have the moronic Victoria govt building a 90km/h train line.
tom9876543
Come on, a 90 km/h curve Is more than adequate for this location, the curve on the other side of the station (where passenger trains slow down to 0 km/h) Is a 20 chain curve (speed limited to 65 km/h)
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
It's extremely disappointing that infrastructure is built to a "compromise" standard.

China is building 300km/h train lines. Europe the same.

Then backward Victoria builds a train line with top speed of 90km/h.

The Victorian government should be building an alignment suitable for 160km/h.
Anything less is a short sighted "compromise".

Ideally, as infrastructure is slowly replaced (yes it could take 200 years), the rail line to Bairsndale should be upgraded to 160km/h for the entire length. That is a suitable long term goal.

Instead we have the moronic Victoria govt building a 90km/h train line.
tom9876543
All passenger trains stop at Stratford, adjacent to the bridge.

The proposed new alignment is more than satisfactory.
  skitz Chief Commissioner

It's extremely disappointing that infrastructure is built to a "compromise" standard.

China is building 300km/h train lines. Europe the same.

Then backward Victoria builds a train line with top speed of 90km/h.

The Victorian government should be building an alignment suitable for 160km/h.
Anything less is a short sighted "compromise".

Ideally, as infrastructure is slowly replaced (yes it could take 200 years), the rail line to Bairsndale should be upgraded to 160km/h for the entire length. That is a suitable long term goal.

Instead we have the moronic Victoria govt building a 90km/h train line.
All passenger trains stop at Stratford, adjacent to the bridge.

The proposed new alignment is more than satisfactory.
DirtyBallast
The 90km/hr suggests the modelled speed of a train approaching/departing Stratford.
  Rodo Chief Commissioner

Location: Southern Riverina
Also when freight trains are ever run, it is most unlikely that a speed of more than 100 kph would be required.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
The 90km/hr suggests the modelled speed of a train approaching/departing Stratford.
skitz
I would suspect speeds would be much lower than 90 km/h for trains approaching/departing Stratford, given the closeness of the Station.
  trainbrain Deputy Commissioner

I would have thought a better service is the order of the day, this fascination of xxx kmh is overrated, when the new bridge is finished it appears a fourth  pass train will be added to the timetable, (probably an extention of a Trarlgon service) with a backup coach connection as happens now.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

It's extremely disappointing that infrastructure is built to a "compromise" standard.

China is building 300km/h train lines. Europe the same.

Then backward Victoria builds a train line with top speed of 90km/h.

The Victorian government should be building an alignment suitable for 160km/h.
Anything less is a short sighted "compromise".

Ideally, as infrastructure is slowly replaced (yes it could take 200 years), the rail line to Bairsndale should be upgraded to 160km/h for the entire length. That is a suitable long term goal.

Instead we have the moronic Victoria govt building a 90km/h train line.
tom9876543
Disagree. All Bairnsdale trains stop at Stratford station which is at the Down end of the existing and proposed new bridge .  As such a 90kmh curve speed on the bridge is quite appropriate .  The proposed new alignment will require quite a bit of new track on a reverse curve to re join the existing alignment towards Sale .  (If the old track to Maffra were still existant the new alignment would link ideally with that former track .)
  cabidass Chief Train Controller

Build a rollercoaster on the Pakenham line, no one bats an eyelid.
Build a 90km curve that meets a station, everyone loses their minds.....

Ok, one person.
  tom9876543 Train Controller

I think the arguments supporting 90km/h bridge are disappointing, short term thinking.

1) All trains stop at Stratford.
Yes true today. But surely it is possible in 200 years' time there will be an express train from Bairnsdale that doesn't stop at Stratford.

2) There is a 65km/h curve on other side of Stratford station.
This is a stupid argument.
Aren't people aware the RRL eased curves on the Ballarat line (eg. around Bacchus Marsh).
Eventually the curve will be rebuilt.

Regarding the Dandenong Skyrail, Metro trains stopping all stations obviously don't need an 160km/h alignment. I'm not sure if there is room to build 2 express tracks next to existing skyrail. If skyrail hasn't provided future ability to build 2x 160km/h express tracks, then it was a compromised project.

It is disappointing that the Victorian Govt continues to build compromised infrastructure.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

But surely it is possible in 200 years' time there will be an express train from Bairnsdale that doesn't stop at Stratford.
tom9876543


Yes, it is possible, but in 200 years' time the bridge will be due for replacement again.

Seriously, this is a silly argument. This is not some gunzel dream land, it's the real world where the money does run out eventually, huge tracts of land can't be acquired to rebuild a railway that sees half a dozen trains a day, and compromises sometimes have to be made. At the end of the day a Vlo will be able to slow down into or accelerate out of Stratford almost without breaking its stride, and that's a damn sight better than a lot of bush stations across Victoria (especially the ones where the passenger trains don't stop at all.)
  skitz Chief Commissioner

I think the arguments supporting 90km/h bridge are disappointing, short term thinking.

1) All trains stop at Stratford.
Yes true today. But surely it is possible in 200 years' time there will be an express train from Bairnsdale that doesn't stop at Stratford.

2) There is a 65km/h curve on other side of Stratford station.
This is a stupid argument.
Aren't people aware the RRL eased curves on the Ballarat line (eg. around Bacchus Marsh).
Eventually the curve will be rebuilt.

Regarding the Dandenong Skyrail, Metro trains stopping all stations obviously don't need an 160km/h alignment. I'm not sure if there is room to build 2 express tracks next to existing skyrail. If skyrail hasn't provided future ability to build 2x 160km/h express tracks, then it was a compromised project.

It is disappointing that the Victorian Govt continues to build compromised infrastructure.
tom9876543
Everyone back up the horse for a bit.  90 km/hr just comes from a silly press release.  Its likely that the speed comes from modelling of what a train would achieve starting and stopping at Stratford.  For all practical reasons the speed is appropriate given proximity of the station and how it operates.

There is nothing published anywhere to say what the actual technical issues are.  Like:

- structure limit for axle load
- the actual curve radius
- the maximum allowable side forces

We just don't know.

Given the cost of the bridge and the traffic offering, why are we building a bridge at all?  (I have my sneakers and bullet proof vest on).  A bus beyond Sale makes a lot of economic sense (now...............RUN!)Laughing
  gippslander Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Gippsland, Vic
It was 25 years ago that the Kennett Government terminated the Gippsland passenger service at Sale (the original plan was to end at Traralgon, but Sale interests prevailed). The closure of the passenger train caused enormous and enduring anger in East Gippsland and was one of the factors leading to the election of independent MP Craig Ingram in 1999. East Gippsland is comparatively remote and the well supported rail service supports quite a network of feeder bus services. It would be an extremely courageous Government that tried to knock the service off at some future point. If we are to be serious at encouraging regional development, a decent rail service is an important part of the toolkit. A bus is very much a second rate alternative.
  vlocity27 Junior Train Controller

Location: Pakenham
Anyone else ever notice that on weekends the vlocity trains departing Traralgon between 9-12 are 6 car vlocities yet weekday peak trains are only 3 cars?? What is the point of this?

Also the Sunday Vlocity to and from Sale used to be 6 carriages but is now 3. Interesting they would add an extra 3 carriages for 2 extra stops and a guaranteed stuff all getting on and off at Rosedale and Sale.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Sounds like not enough cars, plain and simple. Of course as the Auditor-General pointed out, the more carriages V/Line buys for peak hour, the more it has sitting around burning money the rest of the time. It’s a serious problem.
  B 67 Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Gippsland
2) There is a 65km/h curve on other side of Stratford station.
This is a stupid argument.
Aren't people aware the RRL eased curves on the Ballarat line (eg. around Bacchus Marsh).
Eventually the curve will be rebuilt.
tom9876543
Have you actually visited the location, or even checked it on google maps?  Easing that 65km/h curve would require demolishing 2 railway houses, the local fire station, SES station, 1 or 2 new homes (which don't appear on google's satellite images), and at least 2-3 businesses, plus building a new station to match the realigned track. And for what? To save less than 30 seconds when the train is already slowing for the station anyway?

In this particular case, the 65km/h curve is not a silly argument at all.
  tom9876543 Train Controller

2) There is a 65km/h curve on other side of Stratford station.
This is a stupid argument.
Aren't people aware the RRL eased curves on the Ballarat line (eg. around Bacchus Marsh).
Eventually the curve will be rebuilt.
Have you actually visited the location, or even checked it on google maps?  Easing that 65km/h curve would require demolishing 2 railway houses, the local fire station, SES station, 1 or 2 new homes (which don't appear on google's satellite images), and at least 2-3 businesses, plus building a new station to match the realigned track. And for what? To save less than 30 seconds when the train is already slowing for the station anyway?

In this particular case, the 65km/h curve is not a silly argument at all.
B 67

My optimistic assumption is that one day, there will be an express train from Bairnsdale to Flinders St, that only stops at 2 stations, obviously skipping Stratford.

Your estimate of what needs to be demolished is wrong.
Also, there is no need to close the existing station. It is easier to keep the existing station and train line.


I drew a 1600m radius curve using freemaptools.com.
The 1600m curve actually crosses just above the intersection of McFarlane St and Dixon St.
Then it goes through middle of Market Reserve.
Rejoins existing line at approx 15 Industrial Ave.

On Google Earth, it looks like 4 industrial buildings have to be demolised.
I will guess 4 industrial buildings cost no more than $3 million.
(Plus some existing properties will have partial land resumption.)
At the same time as easing the curve, the Princes Hwy will have to be rebuilt as 2 bridges over the existing line plus new line. The cost of building the road will dwarf the property acquisition cost.

So, based on assumption that there is an express train, it is worth while to build the eased line, and at the same time, remove the highway railway crossing.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Unfortunately the only way to test your prediction is the passing of time...

By the time your proposal is considered, we will ALL have run out of the commodity we are talking about...TIME.

Mike.
  @Capacity Station Staff

Location: On the Gippsland line, stuck behind a metro
The Latrobe Valley Express had an article on the acquisition of land for the new stabling yards; to replace the current one at traralgon. 25 acres would be acquired south of the line at Minniedale Rd Traralgon East. RRR said in a statement that it is one of a number of options being looked. It was stated that this option was preferred it teams of a technical and operational perspective. Stabling west of Traralgon would impact on reliability and the capacity to run extra services.

Cheers Chris
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

https://corporate.vline.com.au/News-Alerts/News-Articles/Portable-solar-power-solution

Clever work by V/Line here, coming up with a portable solar power source for level crossings because there was an 8-month lead time getting mains power to sections between Traralgon and Bairnsdale.

Good to see some smart thinking taking place.
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
https://corporate.vline.com.au/News-Alerts/News-Articles/Portable-solar-power-solution

Clever work by V/Line here, coming up with a portable solar power source for level crossings because there was an 8-month lead time getting mains power to sections between Traralgon and Bairnsdale.

Good to see some smart thinking taking place.
potatoinmymouth
10ft hi cube shipping containers with solar panels installed on the roof... quite portable indeed.
  thekingoffoxes Chief Train Controller

https://corporate.vline.com.au/News-Alerts/News-Articles/Portable-solar-power-solution

Clever work by V/Line here, coming up with a portable solar power source for level crossings because there was an 8-month lead time getting mains power to sections between Traralgon and Bairnsdale.

Good to see some smart thinking taking place.
10ft hi cube shipping containers with solar panels installed on the roof... quite portable indeed.
speedemon08
Anybody have any happy snaps of the setup?
  B 67 Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Gippsland
https://corporate.vline.com.au/News-Alerts/News-Articles/Portable-solar-power-solution

Clever work by V/Line here, coming up with a portable solar power source for level crossings because there was an 8-month lead time getting mains power to sections between Traralgon and Bairnsdale.

Good to see some smart thinking taking place.
10ft hi cube shipping containers with solar panels installed on the roof... quite portable indeed.
Anybody have any happy snaps of the setup?
thekingoffoxes
Sorry, I hadn't checked the forum lately. I took some photos of the Reeves Rd crossing a month ago.



Reeves Road Signalling Solar Power Supply.



Note the power line in the background.



Reeves Road crossing between Stratford and Munro.

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