Numbering points and levers

 
  Gremlin Assistant Commissioner

Hi All

I have a dual-road track running East-West with two passing loops/sidings for each main road; there are two points at each end for each main road giving a total of 8 points.  Is there a standardised numbering system for the points and levers?
  • When running East, 1 is the East main, 2 is East passing, 3 is the West main, 4 is the West passing
  • When running West, 5 is the West main, 6 is the West passing, 7 is the East main, 8 is the East passing


Or some other numbering convention?

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  NSWRcars Chief Train Controller

Suggest you look at track and signal diagrams on 1:1 scale railways. Both points and signals are usually included in lever numbering.

As a general rule (to which there are countless exceptions), on MAIN lines points and signals will be numbered in a logical sequence. Up and Down lines usually in reverse sequence to each other. For example on a 16 lever frame, the down Distant and Home signals might be levers 1 & 2, with the Up Distant and Home being levers 16 and 15. Points follow a similar pattern, numbered towards the middle of the frame.
  Captainchoochoo61 Locomotive Fireman

The 1/1 section would be more likely to provide information.

https://extranet.artc.com.au/docs/eng/signal/procedures/design/SDS01.pdf

This link provides modern details.

I can remember CTC signalling in the Adelaide Hills using a standard similar format. Odd numbers for down signals even for up.
Also in the Adelaide metro the signals were numbered on a distance from Adelaide basis
In 1 km from city the first signal was 11, the second 13 etc.

This made it easy to control from a central location using a computer and by keying in the distance you could locate signal 4E which I think was the number for the passenger loop exit signal, at Bridgewater, Aldgate, Balhannah etc.

Depending on your era, state, country, type of signalling, class of line you may find several methods.
  Gremlin Assistant Commissioner

This is a UK-themed layout...and on a loop...so how would I decide which is up?  Or do I just use modellers' license and say West-East is up?
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
pretty much up to you.
  Captainchoochoo61 Locomotive Fireman

If you are looking for UK information , have you considered a UK prototype site?

To be honest your initial question was a bit like how long is a piece of string?
  Radioman Chief Train Controller

Hello All,

the Signalling Record Society UK (https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/home.php ) and the Signal Box UK (https://www.signalbox.org ) are both good places to start.

The VR, using McKenzie&Holland Pattern, later Westinghouse Brake&Signal, were numbered from left to right.

( For the purposes of this discussion, let us assume the signal box is located adjacent to the Up line. )

The middle group were the points ( black levers ) , to the left, starting at No 1 were the Down Signals on the Up side of the signal box ( red levers ) followed by the Up signals on the Up side of the signal box ( red levers ).

To the right of the middle group of points ( black levers ) were the Down signals on the down side of the signal box ( red levers ), followed by the Up signals on the down side of the signal box ( red levers).

The middle group of points mimicked their location, from left to right, in relation to the signal box ( black levers ). If Facing Point Locks / FPLs were used, then the FPL ( VR , Locking Bar ) lever was usually ( not always ) to the left of the points to which it applied ( blue levers ) and the disc or dwarf signal to the applicable points were usually ( not always ) to the right of the points to which they applied ( red levers ).

At some locations , when the VR upgraded the layout or signals were converted to colour light , one signal lever may operate more than one signal. The particular signal that went to proceed was dependent on the lay of the points to which the signal applied. To maintain the interlocking, the resulting redundant signal lever was painted white over black ( magpie ) and effectively became a route proving lever.

( On power frames whether miniature lever, or slide operated , frequently used one lever or slide to operate multiple signals. This reduced the number of levers required for the particular frame . As interlocking was a combination of mechanical and relay in power frames, the use of magpie levers was not required. )

On the VR , the normal position of signal and point levers is "In" and the reverse position is "out", except for Locking Bars , whose normal position was "out" for locked, and "In" for released. On the NSWGR, the lock bars normal, or locked position was"In", and reverse or unlocked was"out".

Both the VR and the NSWGR manufactured most of their mechanical interlocked frames in house in their own Signal Workshops , Spotswood for the VR.

WARNING signal post numbers and signal box lever numbers WERE NOT the same.

Depending on which British railway prototype you are modelling , the interlocked frame layout may differ from the above , depending on the manufacturer of the original interlocked frame pattern that the railway preferred.

Some British railways DID NOT number their signal posts , the GWR being a case in point.

Regards, Radioman.
  Radioman Chief Train Controller

This is a UK-themed layout...and on a loop...so how would I decide which is up?  Or do I just use modellers' license and say West-East is up?
Gremlin
Dear Gremlin ,

the Americans used either East and West or North and South , depending on the orientation of the railway. It follows that at certain locations the "East" and "West" Lines or the "North" and "South" Lines designations were NOT related to their actual physical compass direction.

In the UK ( and Australia and other "British" pattern railways ) , the Up direction was usually towards London , or the particular railways main line station, ie Manchester for example. In relation to a branch line ( for this purpose , branch shall mean a small railway that ends in a dead end terminus ) Up is towards the main line junction.

It therefore follows that Down is in the opposite direction.

In Australia's case the Up line is the direction towards the State capital, and the Down line is away from the State capital.


In relation to Train Describer Bell Codes , "Branch" refers to the diverging line , for instance, if there is a junction where one main line splits into two main lines , one main line will be designate "Main" and the other , diverging line will be designated the "Branch" line.

Regards, Radioman.
  rainynight65 Locomotive Fireman

In Australia's case the Up line is the direction towards the State capital, and the Down line is away from the State capital.
Radioman

TIL I've been doing it wrong all the time. Thank you.
  Gremlin Assistant Commissioner

Thanks everyone, very helpful answers that I will now try to understand and implement Smile
  duttonbay Minister for Railways


In Australia's case the Up line is the direction towards the State capital, and the Down line is away from the State capital.
Radioman
Generally. Except for Queensland and Tasmania. In QLD trains from Brisbane to Toowoomba (and beyond) are up trains, as are those from Rockhampton inland to Longreach and Winton (for example). Trains on the north coast line however do follow the more general rule, in that it's Up to Brisbane and Down to Cairns.

In Tasmania the down trains run from Hobart to Launceston (which follows the general rule) but the down trains have even numbers, and the up trains odd, which is atypical. Down trains also run from Burnie (and beyond) to Launceston, so all trains heading in the direction of Launceston are running in the down direction.

And, just to confuse things more, in New Zealand up trains all run "up the map", from south to north. However the line from Auckland north to Whangerei et al is considered to be down, which is a bit weird. It means all trains leaving Auckland are down, and those branching off at Newmarket to Northland retain that down designation.

Confusing, isn't it!

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