No Passenger Rail to Beaudesert Until 2026!

 
  phil_48 Chief Train Controller

Location: Wynnum North
While " Tunnel Vision " is in power, the above, like all the Bruce Highway promises- won't happen Crying or Very sad

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  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Trains to Beaudesert?  Really?

But RAIL Back On Track spokesman Robert Dow slammed the idea of waiting for the area's growth to occur, saying Brisbane's public transport system was forecast to hit capacity in 2016.
"It's going to be desperately too late by 2026," he said. "We've got a false sense of security."
Numpty Muffin

Wow.

  petan Chief Commissioner

Location: Waiting to see a zebra using a zebra crossing!
The original owners of the Inala BusService and Sunnypank Bus service were Mr Fitzgerald and Mr Pogolli who started off as partners but split with Mr Fitzgreald taking the Inala side of the operation and called it the Inala Bus Service which ran services to the Darra Rail Station as a co-ordinated service.
"Mufreight"


Not really off topic as the following areas were the outer area of Brisbane in the 1950s so a similar discussion to the Beaudesert matter. When we moved out to the Sunnybank Bus area, people asked us why we going all that way out of town!

Mufreight, interested in the website or source for your Sunnybank and Inala bus material, please? Do you have a timetable or list of services from that era? You seem very sure the Inala service to Moorvale did not exist.
I am a bit disappointed to find the following http://fleetlists.busaustralia.com/index-qld.php?historic=yes historic list has the Inala but not Sunnybank one. You might be able to contact them and offer your material? Some yours ago I sent Sunnybank bus material to a similar website but received no reply.

Also enjoying your http://www.railpage.com.au/f-p1782994.htm#1782994 where you describe your time in Sydney at Eveleigh firing 3616 after it received its Geisl ejector in 1957.

  petan Chief Commissioner

Location: Waiting to see a zebra using a zebra crossing!
The original owners of the Inala BusService and Sunnypank Bus service were Mr Fitzgerald and Mr Pogolli who started off as partners but split with Mr Fitzgreald taking the Inala side of the operation and called it the Inala Bus Service which ran services to the Darra Rail Station as a co-ordinated service.
"Mufreight"
"petan"


Mufreight has sent more historical data via a PM so I have more facts about the Sunnybank and Inala buses.

As I said earlier, the Beaudesert and Logan areas would be very similar to Sunnybank and Inala from the 1950s regarding public transport needs. In the modern day case, Clarks  and Park Ridge Transit are/were the public transport providers who develop the areas services. If there is a rail service built, perhaps they will be the feeder bus company. 

Lota and Manly were similar to the Logan and Beaudesert areas in that I used to sit in the Salisbury tram inbound in peak hour along Grey Street South Brisbane beside buses from out towards Moreton Bay and those areas had a rail service. Buses covered the rest of the district and a through bus to town was better than a transfer. 

No doubt similar out past Wacol and Petrie.


  drwaddles In need of a breath mint

Location: Newcastle
As I said earlier, the Beaudesert and Logan areas would be very similar to Sunnybank and Inala from the 1950s regarding public transport needs.
"petan"

There's several key reasons why public transport usage went backward so drastically from the 1950s onwards - lets hope these same mistakes aren't repeated today (not holding my breath). Not a wise thing to be looking at what was done then as an indication of what should be done now.

  cuthbert Train Controller

If they have a car. If they can buy a second car, just to sit at the station all day. If they don't mind a long walk from the station to work at Acacia Ridge and Coopers Plains. If they don't mind driving well out of their way to get to the station in the first place. if they just don't drive anyway...

CBD commuters are a market but a small market and that's all this line serves.
"drwaddles"


We are talking big mortgaged acreage McMansion blocks with two to 10 car garages and you might be surprised how many family unit type residents in these new upmarket estates this line will cater for own. Majority have multi-cars and bikes for the males and the females all have a cars of their own (and a "paddock basher" for the kids). The general thing is to have a special petrol car for weekends and the basic economical "Commuter" vehicle.

The rate Beaudesert Rd is getting stupider, crrently 16 sets of lights in 10Kms (Acacia Ridge to Browns Plains) on a major Arterial and one big hill up to Learoyd Rd, parking a "Commuter" at the station would not be an issue in my mind! The other option would be to spend-up big and build tunnels or fly-overs to bypass all the stupid traffic lights. Also, something is needed to be done to cater for the proposed Intermodal Transport hub at Bromelton, as hundreds of semi-trailers and B-Doubles will want to use Beaudesert Rd too. I will also mention the ever-growing Larapinta Road Transport hub mainly that uses the Motorway, but notwithstanding that, a lot of big trucks now filter their way to Mt Lindsay Hwy, Beaudesert and Learoyd Rds creating utter afternoon chaos at those intersections.

Bring on the pass Rail I say!
  drwaddles In need of a breath mint

Location: Newcastle
If they have a car. If they can buy a second car, just to sit at the station all day. If they don't mind a long walk from the station to work at Acacia Ridge and Coopers Plains. If they don't mind driving well out of their way to get to the station in the first place. if they just don't drive anyway...

CBD commuters are a market but a small market and that's all this line serves.
"drwaddles"


We are talking big mortgaged acreage McMansion blocks with two to 10 car garages and you might be surprised how many family unit type residents in these new upmarket estates this line will cater for own. Majority have multi-cars and bikes for the males and the females all have a cars of their own (and a "paddock basher" for the kids). The general thing is to have a special petrol car for weekends and the basic economical "Commuter" vehicle.

The rate Beaudesert Rd is getting stupider, crrently 16 sets of lights in 10Kms (Acacia Ridge to Browns Plains) on a major Arterial and one big hill up to Learoyd Rd, parking a "Commuter" at the station would not be an issue in my mind!
"cuthbert"


So what you're saying is that the CUB residents can obviously afford to pay the real cost of the commuter rail? No problem then, carry on. Don't care if they want to spend their money (i.e. not taxpayers money) on massively inefficient one-way, sole purpose commuter rail. 

So all these CUBs work in the city, yeah? Or they like catching buses from stations to their job? Or they like long walks in thunderstorms to/from the destination station? Seems unlikely.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE


So what you're saying is that the CUB residents can obviously afford to pay the real cost of the commuter rail? No problem then, carry on. Don't care if they want to spend their money (i.e. not taxpayers money) on massively inefficient one-way, sole purpose commuter rail.

So all these CUBs work in the city, yeah? Or they like catching buses from stations to their job? Or they like long walks in thunderstorms to/from the destination station? Seems unlikely.
"drwaddles"


For the cost of tunneling yo could run buses as connections for a very long time for free. Tunnelling or overpass would be nice, but it won't happen when there is a far cheaper option 1km or so to north. Regardless most communters would not be walk up, modern suburban commuter rail is built as a hub for change of mod, park, kiss'n'ride etc. The spacing of the stations also mitigates any likelyhood that you are targetting walk up.

I dont' think even if you were to build it through the 'burbs this line like every other Greenfield commuter line built since the 80's in Brisbane and really Australia is anything more than >70-80% commuter rail. The quaint little inner suburban stations with their timber buildings jammed in some low to medium density housing thats up to 150 years old is really not suited for this location. You would eliminate the two (some cases 3) car garage and the weekend drives to shops, kids soccer, friends BBQ etc.

As for cost, well you save a bucket o capital avoiding the high density area and the endless legal actions. But either way the operating subsidy will still exceed 50%, probably 60%, noting that the average in Brisbane now is around 70-75%. Unfortunately neither option will be built any time soon due to budget constraints and realistically the line will struggle to operate effectively until extra capacity in the city is created, so it really needs to be placed on back burner until CRR is built.



  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
So all these CUBs work in the city, yeah? Or they like catching buses from stations to their job? Or they like long walks in thunderstorms to/from the destination station? Seems unlikely.
"drwaddles"


I know I'm getting old, when I started work at 15 I had no choice but to walk to the station, catch a train to the city then walk to work. Even when I got a car and licence the only change to that was to drive from home to the station. No way I was driving to work. We are breeding a bunch of sooks that can't walk a few blocks, won't go outside if it's hot, cold or raining. What is the world coming to.
  phil_48 Chief Train Controller

Location: Wynnum North
Graham - agree entirely.  I happily caught train to SB then walked over old Vic bridge to Wickham Tce, and even when I got my car it stayed home except for night shifts when trains weren't running..
  cuthbert Train Controller

So what you're saying is that the CUB residents can obviously afford to pay the real cost of the commuter rail? No problem then, carry on. Don't care if they want to spend their money (i.e. not taxpayers money) on massively inefficient one-way, sole purpose commuter rail.

So all these CUBs work in the city, yeah? Or they like catching buses from stations to their job? Or they like long walks in thunderstorms to/from the destination station? Seems unlikely.
"drwaddles"


HMMMM! CUB, lucky for the Urban Dictionary -

"In the Australian vernacular, a cub is a Cashed Up Bogan. Cubs are found in suburbs where they plainly don't belong, often having arrived as a result of an inheritance, lottery win or some other unexpected windfall.

Although cubs live in aesthetically pleasing suburban residences, the following traits still give them away:

* Cheap plastic chairs on the front porch.
* A massive ashtray - usually a baby formula tin or large coffee can, also on the front porch.
* Females can often be seen sunning themselves on the same front porch (usually in a cheap blue nylon dressing gown) on weekend mornings.
* Cigarette butts on the lawn of both their own and their neighbors.
* The high-pitched voice of the female of the species.
* Mating sounds on a Friday night (not to be confused with that of a Tasmanian Devil).

Note that because the bogan is now cashed-up, the car in the driveway is no longer an indicator, often having been replaced by an not-so-older series Ford or Holden."

Well mate, a high proportion of those alleged CUBs living in those "aesthetically pleasing suburban residences" are not actually the owners of said residences. They are renters (sorry if I stated or implied they were all owners) and yes, those that are not mobile tradies will use the train, as well as their partners and housemates and kids.  It's amazing how many private schools have bus runs feeding from these new areas that are costing parents in the order of $2000 or more per child, per year. Closer to the school, it's not nearly as much.

There are so many arguements for and against, but I reckon the pass train is all about growing the state - it will happen, sooner or later, I hope.
  cuthbert Train Controller

Update - Passenger Rail put back to 2041, because ARTC has taken the corridor for SG ONLY trains. A new corridor will be be resumed/constructed beside it.

After nearly 6 years after the last discussions here, the ULDA is now EDQ and the GREATER FLAGSTONE PDA plans for 50,000 tiny homes, but the block sizes are getting smaller, recently lowered to 180 sqM. Recently, the planned 4,800 tiny homes within 1 km of a a proposed pass rail station, have begun popping-up out of the ground at an alarming rate. The rural "bottleneck" style road system is chaotic due to the construction deliveries, tradies and the likes all day long.

The plan was for an extra 120,000 people in the area over the next 15 years. It will be more, considering EDQ is allowing smaller lot sizes than the original ULDA plan 8 years ago.

Unfortunately, there is NO public transport. Pre ARTC lease of the corridor, the promised rail PT was the key factor in deciding the Greater Flagstone developments should go ahead.

As for extending Springfield to Greenbank/Beaudesert, not going to happen, but more likely out to Ripley following the Centenary Mwy, but either way, there is huge geographical constraints and straight track would require moving mountains and building huge viaducts.
  petan Chief Commissioner

Location: Waiting to see a zebra using a zebra crossing!
Yes Cuthbert, it may be a few years since the past post but glad you used this tread and so keep all the relevant earlier discussion together.

One assumption from some other discussion I have seen on this matter is that the majority of the new arrivals want to travel to the Brisbane CBD for employment or entertainment etc and thus the call for the rail to Brisbane. I wonder if new employment and entertainment centres will pop up in non rail areas. To use a Gold Coast example, for decades Southport region was the business and employment focus and so many public transport routes went that direction but the Robina financial and shopping region has moved that away from Southport. Robina now has the rail and other transport hubs.

So I wonder what will occur to the Flagstone Greenbank travel patterns, considering that road that allows convenient travel from Greenbank to Springfield and points west away from the traditional Brisbane CBD
  Draffa Chief Commissioner

but the block sizes are getting smaller, recently lowered to 180 sqM.
cuthbert

At those sizes I feel like you should just build spacious apartments and shared green zones and be done with it.  What's the  point of a backyard with 20m2 of grass and gutters that nearly touch?
  locojoe67 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Gen X purgatory/urban Joh-land
"I know I'm getting old, when I started work at 15 I had no choice but to walk to the station, catch a train to the city then walk to work. "

Graham, I still do that now! There are plenty that don't take PT, prefer to drive to work , then whinge about the cost of parking.


"What's the  point of a backyard with 20m2 of grass and gutters that nearly touch?"

Maximises developer, lender, estate agency and conveyancer incomes.


The high-pitched voice of the female of the species...

Sounds like the rental opposite.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Update - Passenger Rail put back to 2041, because ARTC has taken the corridor for SG ONLY trains. A new corridor will be be resumed/constructed beside it.

After nearly 6 years after the last discussions here, the ULDA is now EDQ and the GREATER FLAGSTONE PDA plans for 50,000 tiny homes, but the block sizes are getting smaller, recently lowered to 180 sqM. Recently, the planned 4,800 tiny homes within 1 km of a a proposed pass rail station, have begun popping-up out of the ground at an alarming rate. The rural "bottleneck" style road system is chaotic due to the construction deliveries, tradies and the likes all day long.

The plan was for an extra 120,000 people in the area over the next 15 years. It will be more, considering EDQ is allowing smaller lot sizes than the original ULDA plan 8 years ago.

Unfortunately, there is NO public transport. Pre ARTC lease of the corridor, the promised rail PT was the key factor in deciding the Greater Flagstone developments should go ahead.

As for extending Springfield to Greenbank/Beaudesert, not going to happen, but more likely out to Ripley following the Centenary Mwy, but either way, there is huge geographical constraints and straight track would require moving mountains and building huge viaducts.
cuthbert
Line cannot be built until CRR is done and this will rape the govt coffers for a few years plus the fact Qld is in debt to its neck and the govt is going deeper.

I don't think it will be 2041, but likely around 2030. With that much growth sooner or later it will become a political hot potato sooner or later.
  GrahamH Chief Commissioner

Location: At a terminal on the www.
The 2032 Olympic bid may bring the cheque book out a little earlier.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-22/brisbane-olympic-bid-2032-how-capital-will-look/10837264
South-east Queensland's bid to host the 2032 Olympics could fail without billions of dollars invested in roads and infrastructure.

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