Victoria was only known as the 'rustbucket state' by the Murdoch Press...that's our old friends the Herald-Sun and the Liberal Party which had to tone down the rhetoric lest the ratings agencies believed how bad things weren't and reduce our credit rating accordin

I shall concede to your much vaster vault of experience and knowledge Mike.

While I was around in '93 I wasn't really old enough at the time to pay too much attention to the state of state politics, or the alliances of certain media outlets. Knowing what I know now of the Murdoch Press and their penchant for fear mongering, I don't find this particularly hard to believe.

Then you would have read the Leonie report included deprecation of the Melbourne to Geelong Railway Line.

WHO DIS LEONIE? And is she self deprecating or just the ordinary kind.

BG

I think she's related to Princess Highway, who is someone often referred to by simpletons as well.

When the Loonie report was releaed Dick Hamer was Premier and Rob (Whats his face) was transport minister at the time...…………….so called expert Gunzel knuckleheads have nothing else better to do for something that took place 36 years ago.

I believe it interesting to see the numbers are presented. Both sides of politics have been responsible for the running down of the network and the people in the various departments have an inbred culture of can't do and shouldn't do.  You really cant blame one party of another although you might argue the Jeff Kennett cuts were too deep and at the wrong time when the network needed to be supported.  Kennett divided the community.

I think we should Reopen the Rosstown railway as a Dual Gauge (to keep YM happy), quadruple track, class one, TAL 28, electrified railway with all level crossing grade separated just because I said so and I want the government to spend other peoples money on it.

While we're at it, why not bring back the VR trams as well? That said, they were canned because they beat the suburbs to suburbia and hardly anyone used them (picture a tram service running along Maroondah Hwy between Lilydale and Coldstream for comparison, and then add Australia's Own Car to the equation for the latter years), and then the infrastructure slowly fell apart rendering it completely pointless even bothering with it, not even the MMTB wanted to take over the VR tram routes.

I believe it interesting to see the numbers are presented. Both sides of politics have been responsible for the running down of the network and the people in the various departments have an inbred culture of can't do and shouldn't do. You really cant blame one party of another although you might argue the Jeff Kennett cuts were too deep and at the wrong time when the network needed to be supported. Kennett divided the community.

Bevans, you keep avoiding the actual issue most of us have with the RRA. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and equally, everyone is entitled to criticise others’ opinions.

Railpage publishes rail-related content from a casts number of global sources, a massive undertaking which is very enjoyable and informative for many of us. Moreover, the access to a broad range of sources enriches discussions and encourages thoughtful commentary.

The problem is, though, that rational and interesting debate is not possible when blatantly false information is presented as fact in the name of an agenda. I implore you to read this, and other threads which have taken a similar turn, in order to appreciate that the content published by the RRA has a history of misleading information, poor writing and a “ranty” style which does not encourage sensible engagement. Whether any of this is intentional is not relevant: this is not a court of law and intention need not come into it.

I reiterate my plea for you to protect the reputation of Railpage, to protect your own reputation and to take a very simple action that will make this website more enjoyable for the vast majority of users.

Those that don't like the thread or the RRA could always give the thread a miss. Always something else to read on Railpage.

While we're at it, why not bring back the VR trams as well? That said, they were canned because they beat the suburbs to suburbia and hardly anyone used them (picture a tram service running along Maroondah Hwy between Lilydale and Coldstream for comparison, and then add Australia's Own Car to the equation for the latter years), and then the infrastructure slowly fell apart rendering it completely pointless even bothering with it, not even the MMTB wanted to take over the VR tram routes.

I'd be likely to use a tram between Lilydale and Coldstream... although up the Warburton Highway would be preferred! (although I might only have Lad_Porter and a few others for company)

Neil

Those that don't like the thread or the RRA could always give the thread a miss. Always something else to read on Railpage.

I disagree with that on so many levels - people writing and publishing fake news need to be held to account, to ignore it is to simply give it tacit acceptance.

Aside from the above we don't get to find out that it's RRA dross masquaerading as news until we read the thread or open the link to the article.

That is why I agree with the preposition that RRA propaganda gets it own thread so RP users can choose to engage or ignore.

BG

I have a controversial theory about the Kennett cuts and such....  That it made RFR work as well as it has done...

(eg, Would RFR even have been the success it is today, or would the V/line fleet be so stretched thin over so many lines that it would never have worked?)

League tables and the political parties and politicians who perpetrated the closure of railway lines in Victoria

I'd like to see the underlying data before getting excited about this 'news' item. Some of the statements are, ah, curious.

John Cain Senior ALP Premier closed 15 regional railway lines in one day on December 8 , 1956

John Cain Snr was not even Premier on 8 December 1956 - Bolte was. Cain's government had fallen on 7 June 1955. In any case, 15 regional railway lines were not closed on 8 December 1956. In fact, I'm not aware of any lines closed on that date.

If I count correctly, 12 lines were closed between December 1952 and April 1955 when Cain had his third government, and a further two during his earlier period in government (Nov 1945 - Nov 1947). All of these lines were complete no hopers.

I wouldn't read too much into Anything, those clowns say, historian, their probably not far off pushing the wrong buttons on somebody and ending up in court, with a mild case of deformation or similar.

I'd like to see that, the amount of unfounded rubbish, they have attempted to write, is preposterous.............

BigShunter.

a mild case of deformation or similar.

I don’t think we’ll need a court to find out this is severely deformed stuff.

I wouldn't read too much into Anything, those clowns say, historian, their probably not far off pushing the wrong buttons on somebody and ending up in court, with a mild case of deformation or similar.

deformation
/ˌdiːfɔːˈmeɪʃ(ə)n/
noun
the action or process of deforming or distorting.


I'm not sure you meant deformation, but it fits...

Rick

While we're at it, why not bring back the VR trams as well? That said, they were canned because they beat the suburbs to suburbia and hardly anyone used them (picture a tram service running along Maroondah Hwy between Lilydale and Coldstream for comparison, and then add Australia's Own Car to the equation for the latter years), and then the infrastructure slowly fell apart rendering it completely pointless even bothering with it, not even the MMTB wanted to take over the VR tram routes.

I'd be likely to use a tram between Lilydale and Coldstream... although up the Warburton Highway would be preferred! (although I might only have Lad_Porter and a few others for company)

Neil

Forget a tram.  Extend the heavy rail to Coldstream.  It will be needed sooner or later, so at least make provision for it in the level crossing removal and duplication projects.

It would be interesting to reflect on what would have happened to the regional rail network if Jeff Kennett had been reelected in 1999. No Regional Fast Rail on his side, just more of the same. The passenger lines closed in the 1993 purge would have remained shut and the commuter lines would have struggled. I wonder if a V/Locity type train was being scoped by Transport in those days?

It was a vastly different story in 1993. Victoria wasn't known as the rustbucket state for nothing.

Victoria was only known as the 'rustbucket state' by the Murdoch Press...that's our old friends the Herald-Sun and the Liberal Party which had to tone down the rhetoric lest the ratings agencies believed how bad things weren't and reduce our credit rating accordingly.

Joan was a conservation pioneer.

http://theconversation.com/joan-kirner-united-farmers-and-conservationists-to-care-for-the-land-42746

Part of the legacy inherited from the Cain years was John Cain's insistence on NOT raising state taxes among other nation leading achievements, FoI, prostitution reform, Sunday football, the Tennis Centre among others.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/labors-party-poopers-shun-a-great-state-achiever-20110430-1e22e.html

On a lighter note, I also remember Cains Transport Minister Steve Crabb describing the renovating of the later Harris cars under his stewardship as H Cars, as being a temporary arrangement.

Mike.

The myth that Victoria was 'broke' was pushed by Murdoch, Kennett, Stockdale, et al. The State debt was about $30b. Not good but not insurmountable and it certainly didn't warrant Kennett's slash and burn which was all about ideology (public service bad, corporations good). SEC? A money making company owned by the State. Gas And Fuel? Same. State Rivers & Water Supply Commission? Same. MMBW? Same. The list goes on. Kennett sold of 2,300 schools and sacked 25,000 teachers and then sold off the land the schools were on to private developers. How's that for future planning?

Why was Cain/Kirner in such deep trouble? 1) State Bank's commercial arm Tricontinental who lent money willy-nilly with woeful governance. Huge debts. 2) Pyramid Building Society (remember them?). Went bust and, due to public outcry including Murdoch, the State bailed out the deposits via the State Bank.

All political parties have their ups and downs. I have a soft spot for Hamer and Lindsay Thomsom (who confronted the Faraday kidnapper personally). Kennett? Nuh!