Experts suggest levy for residents to secure fast trains in council-commissioned report

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 07 Nov 2018 16:18
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Interesting concept.  We have already explored developer charges for road and transport (although I would argue transport has not been done well).

taxpayers have been billed on rates notices for other non transport items.  

This could work but also raise awareness of the rail network and maybe help people form their cars?

Experts suggest levy for residents to secure fast trains in council-commissioned report

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  SinickleBird Chief Train Controller

Location: Qantas Club at Mudgee International Airport
A couple of random sinickle thoughts.

I bet the ‘experts’ don’t live in Geelong, but they will have lots of ideas about how to use money raised in Geelong.

I can see people getting rather annoyed by being asked to pay for a fast train line, and then pay again to use it. All the while paying taxes which should, theoretically, be used for such infrastructure but are often seen as largely paying for a bloated public service.

There is already a railway line in place, and the blockages seem to be well away from Geelong, the suggested source of the funding. This will add to the feeling of unfairness
  justarider Chief Train Controller

Location: Stuck on VR and hoping for better.
A couple of random sinickle thoughts.

I bet the ‘experts’ don’t live in Geelong, but they will have lots of ideas about how to use money raised in Geelong.

I can see people getting rather annoyed by being asked to pay for a fast train line, and then pay again to use it. All the while paying taxes which should, theoretically, be used for such infrastructure but are often seen as largely paying for a bloated public service.

There is already a railway line in place, and the blockages seem to be well away from Geelong, the suggested source of the funding. This will add to the feeling of unfairness
SinickleBird
well snickle, you can only hope that this happens during the next council election.
Mayor Bruce Harwood said the proposal — for the project that could deliver a 32-minute commute between Geelong and Melbourne — would be put to the community soon.
Somebody

Then  you can vote out this bunch of fools that wasted your money, to produce a fool report, on a topic that the Vic Transport Dept does all the time anyway.

Typical over-reach by local government wanna-bees that want to play with the big boys and spend everybody else's money.

Don't be too hard on the "experts". Take it with a grain of salt. They just write what the council wanted to hear.

cheers
John
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Typical over-reach by local government wanna-bees that want to play with the big boys and spend everybody else's money.
justarider

Correct. Sometime there are legitimate reasons for a council to do this sort of stuff (for instance, Geelong council could investigate a Geelong tram, that seems reasonable) but commissioning yet another study into a rail corridor where the solutions are bleeding obvious (and don’t involve “fast trains”) is just pathetic.

On the other hand, value capture is a legitimate and clever funding mechanism that is arguably more “fair” that flat taxation. If your land value goes up because the rail service has improved, reinvesting some of that value into the service seems entirely reasonable. Of course it’s not that straightforward in practice.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Of course Geelong residents should pay if they want a fast train.

Why should those who work nearby to where they live subsidise those who choose to commute hundreds of kilometres?
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Of course Geelong residents should pay if they want a fast train.

Why should those who work nearby to where they live subsidise those who choose to commute hundreds of kilometres?
ZH836301

You've changed your tune over the past few years ZH. Surprised

Once upon a time you'd have said that because it's a local government sourced report, that it has little to no influence on a state government matter.

Moreover...I wonder if these 'consultants' have actually hopped on a train and travelled to Melbourne where, admittedly in ideal situations it's possible to travel from Sunshine to SCS & vv in around 10 mins...even less if Footscray were skipped for a true express service proposal.

A tunnel proposal from Sunshine by the consultants is a nonsense.

As you well know...the state government and hapless Opposition are trying to decentralise the population again to ease pressures on Melbourne and the idea that the passengers should pay some kind of levy to prop up a consultancy that will in all likelihood be replicated by the state government is also nonsensical.

The locals want a reliable and timely service...actual top speed of the train appears to be secondary and I believe commuter trains from Geelong have been in operation for over 90 years...it's a bit late to tell people now that because they live in the regions they should be treated differently to someone who wants to live in the big smoke.

Mike.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

A tunnel proposal from Sunshine by the consultants is a nonsense.
The Vinelander

Not if you want Geelong, Ballarat, Bendigo express from Sunshine, fighting sparks to Wyndham Vale, Melton, Airport and Sunbury. No one’s getting seven lines on two track pairs without it ending in tears.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

On the other hand, value capture is a legitimate and clever funding mechanism that is arguably more “fair” that flat taxation. If your land value goes up because the rail service has improved, reinvesting some of that value into the service seems entirely reasonable. Of course it’s not that straightforward in practice.
potatoinmymouth
Increasing the price of the train ticket would be even better.

The extra money still ends up in the train operator's pocket, but without chunks of it being skimmed off to pay for copious amounts of administration along the way.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Of course Geelong residents should pay if they want a fast train.

Why should those who work nearby to where they live subsidise those who choose to commute hundreds of kilometres?
ZH836301
Even better, make them pay via increased ticket prices rather than a levy.

Only those who use Geelong as a dormitory town should have to pay, not those who actually live there properly.
  justarider Chief Train Controller

Location: Stuck on VR and hoping for better.
A tunnel proposal from Sunshine by the consultants is a nonsense.

Not if you want Geelong, Ballarat, Bendigo express from Sunshine, fighting sparks to Wyndham Vale, Melton, Airport and Sunbury. No one’s getting seven lines on two track pairs without it ending in tears.
potatoinmymouth
PIMM , I read 2 parts to the statement.
Tunnel proposal - hate to admit it but agreed probably the way to go

Geelong Council consultant does a superficial look - a nonsense waste of time and money.
The big boys do this work.  Like a comprehensive study of the whole network and it's requirement, Business Case, Funding analysis etc.

Council stick to your knitting. Maybe just ask your constituents what they need, and present that to the real study when submissions are requested.

cheers
John
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Council stick to your knitting. Maybe just ask your constituents what they need, and present that to the real study when submissions are requested.
justarider

Yes, I think this is what I was trying to say! Hence the comment about trams.

I think it would be silly to say councils should have no role in transport planning, since they have an awareness of land use and community structure at a fairly granular scale, but they shouldn’t be taking the lead or even trying to.

Of course, the state government is doing a fairly appalling job of creating/sticking to any sort of strategic plan for the state-level transport network, so it’s easy to see why councils feel like they can jostle in.
  trainbrain Deputy Commissioner

I was always under the impression that the RRL was to separate  Vline from clashing with Metro, now all  you Goons want Sparkies to Winevale and Melton. Let the Guv of the day build new separate tracks for Metro and the whingers from the Werribee area get of their backsides and use the Werribee trains.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

I was always under the impression that the RRL was to separate Vline from clashing with Metro, now all you Goons want Sparkies to Winevale and Melton. Let the Guv of the day build new separate tracks for Metro and the whingers from the Werribee area get of their backsides and use the Werribee trains.
trainbrain
Separating V/Line from Metro didn’t work, because now the V/Line services are acting as de facto suburban services in the urban fringe. So what is being proposed is extra track pairs to Melton and Wyndham Vale, sparked, and with some sort of additional capacity from Sunshine to carry them. Roads in the outer west are clogged enough without Wyndham Vale and Tarneit area pax having to drive to Werribee.
  42101 A end Junior Train Controller

So just who are these supposed experts and what if any are their qualifications??
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
A tunnel proposal from Sunshine by the consultants is a nonsense.

Not if you want Geelong, Ballarat, Bendigo express from Sunshine, fighting sparks to Wyndham Vale, Melton, Airport and Sunbury. No one’s getting seven lines on two track pairs without it ending in tears.
potatoinmymouth

Admittedly the Airport railway will be a tunnel from Sunshine all the way possibly to SCS and the RRL between Sunshine and Spion Kop is virtually maxed out during the peaks, however the most frequent airport trains are likely to become will be every 10 mins, which creates paths for another line...perhaps Geelong.
This would also allow additional Bendigo/Ballarat paths during the peaks.

Geelongs could dive under the down end of Sunshine to join the airport line and if operating express to the City...pax change at Sunshine for METRO services or be a truly express service stopping nowhere till the City.

See...not difficult and cost effective for the proposed higher speed Geelong services... Smile

The line to/from Wyndham Vale will be quadded from Sunshine and the Wyndham Vale services will most likely utilise the existing METRO tracks between Sunshine and the City.

Mike.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
So just who are these supposed experts and what if any are their qualifications??
"42101 A end"
You beat me to it - that's just what I want to know, too.
  42101 A end Junior Train Controller

Lolz yes mate great minds think alike.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Only those who use Geelong as a dormitory town should have to pay, not those who actually live there properly.
justapassenger
100% agree.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Of course Geelong residents should pay if they want a fast train.

Why should those who work nearby to where they live subsidise those who choose to commute hundreds of kilometres?
Even better, make them pay via increased ticket prices rather than a levy.

Only those who use Geelong as a dormitory town should have to pay, not those who actually live there properly.
justapassenger
Even better than that, overhaul the fare system so that they pay per kilometre and get rid of all the free included travel.

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