SA to keep Overland running

 
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
That’s a plainly absurd situation, and unless the SA government is willing to stump up funds for V/Line to operate a service into Adelaide (à la the PTC buying an XPT set for the SRA), the only sensible option for continued service in the short-medium term of any sort is a daily Horsham/Dimboola service connecting at Ararat, with the set rotating through with the NE sets for maintenance.
6 / V/Line should run a daily VLocity type service , to a faster schedule , and with the costs shared between Victoria and SA.
put the 2 together and we have the Libs promised return of trains to Horsham (high speed ha ha). Not such as bad thing.

Dimboola-Ararat (SG) = 1hr 45  (GSR times)
Ararat- SCS  (BG) = 2hr 15
not too shabby - another 2 hrs if you want to stretch to Bordertown

V/Lo on the SG should shave off a fair chunk of that (raise from 115kph to 160kph), unless the usual excuse of unprotected crossings pops up yet again.
When are those V/Lo SG going to be ready?
Ballarat line upgrades shave even more time (we hope).

With reasonable times like these, maybe shame the SA govt/GSR into handing over to V/line.
Just like the good old days. Train change for gauge. Tea rooms and porters at Ararat could be a good business again.

cheers
John
justarider

Conveniently forgetting it's predominantly a single track freight railway and the faster you go the more capacity you take up. Yeah, let's bring the corridor to a halt for a few OAPs and concession card holders.

Sponsored advertisement

  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

With reasonable times like these, maybe shame the SA govt/GSR into handing over to V/line.
justarider

I agree, but the problem is I struggle to see a Victorian government being brave enough to start running services to another state. There’s already a lot of political capital being burnt on trains and infrastructure, and I can just imagine the Opposition (whoever it might being) raging about “looking after Victorians first”.  

These are not the days of great pride in a state’s rail service, sadly.
  greasyrhys Chief Commissioner

Location: MacDonald Park, SA
As some say, the current outdated service needs to be disposed of & replaced with a daily Vlocity service between the two capitals. Said railcars did wonders for V/Line services, perhaps the same could happen here?
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Conveniently forgetting it's predominantly a single track freight railway and the faster you go the more capacity you take up. Yeah, let's bring the corridor to a halt for a few OAPs and concession card holders.
bingley hall
The corridor isn't designed or suited to a higher speed passenger service, that's the fundamental problem.
  justarider Train Controller

Conveniently forgetting it's predominantly a single track freight railway and the faster you go the more capacity you take up. Yeah, let's bring the corridor to a halt for a few OAPs and concession card holders.
The corridor isn't designed or suited to a higher speed passenger service, that's the fundamental problem.
don_dunstan

Bingley are you a glass half full kind of bloke?
Single line for sure, with 6 passing loops and 3 stations with multiple tracks.
It's a matter of time table management to run a replacement train for one that already runs (albeit weekly)

I'm a simple kind of bloke. To me the faster a passenger train runs, the quicker it gets out of the way.

Not too many OAPs heading to Dimboola. The target market is the existing population in the Ararat/Horsham/Stawell/Dimboola region. Extra pax is an unexpected bonus. Just ask the LIBS, it MUST happens fast.

If it goes any further (Adelaide) is pie in the shy, but just maybe...

Don. Whether the trains can run faster than the existing max 115kph is a matter for consult with ARTC.
Ararat-Dimboola is not a long run. Boosting to 160kph, if possible, would save about 20 minutes so not a huge deal anyway.
BUT ARTC did make a big deal at the time about how they were committed to boosting speed.
https://www.artc.com.au/1999/09/14/2006-05-12-141027/

cheers
John
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
That’s a plainly absurd situation, and unless the SA government is willing to stump up funds for V/Line to operate a service into Adelaide (à la the PTC buying an XPT set for the SRA), the only sensible option for continued service in the short-medium term of any sort is a daily Horsham/Dimboola service connecting at Ararat, with the set rotating through with the NE sets for maintenance.
6 / V/Line should run a daily VLocity type service , to a faster schedule , and with the costs shared between Victoria and SA.
put the 2 together and we have the Libs promised return of trains to Horsham (high speed ha ha). Not such as bad thing.

Dimboola-Ararat (SG) = 1hr 45  (GSR times)
Ararat- SCS  (BG) = 2hr 15
not too shabby - another 2 hrs if you want to stretch to Bordertown

V/Lo on the SG should shave off a fair chunk of that (raise from 115kph to 160kph), unless the usual excuse of unprotected crossings pops up yet again.
When are those V/Lo SG going to be ready?
Ballarat line upgrades shave even more time (we hope).

With reasonable times like these, maybe shame the SA govt/GSR into handing over to V/line.
Just like the good old days. Train change for gauge. Tea rooms and porters at Ararat could be a good business again.

cheers
John

Conveniently forgetting it's predominantly a single track freight railway and the faster you go the more capacity you take up. Yeah, let's bring the corridor to a halt for a few OAPs and concession card holders.
bingley hall
Be interesting to graph out the Melbourne - Adelaide train service but, personally, I couldn't be bothered but perhaps someone will?
  42101 A end Junior Train Controller

The Overland has been on life support for years it is time to pull the plug.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The Overland has been on life support for years it is time to pull the plug.
42101 A end

A lot of services need subsidies infact almost all.  The overland is no different.
  42101 A end Junior Train Controller

With the very limited service levels it now has it is beyond proping up with the public purse.

Either bring it back to a fully daily service or just get rid of it entirely and save Victoria money to be spent on V/line services.
  allan Chief Commissioner

The Overland has been on life support for years it is time to pull the plug.

A lot of services need subsidies infact almost all.  The overland is no different.
bevans
The Overland is an anachronism, a left-over from another time serving no useful purpose any more. It was replaced, long ago, by more appropriate technology - aircraft and road coaches. Even the tracks have been repurposed so that they no longer serve many (?most) of the towns that they pass through, with the vast majority of trains running from Melbourne to Adelaide, or beyond, with no scheduled intermediate stops.

If the Overland cannot pay its way (and we know that it cannot), write it off.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Conveniently forgetting it's predominantly a single track freight railway and the faster you go the more capacity you take up. Yeah, let's bring the corridor to a halt for a few OAPs and concession card holders.
The corridor isn't designed or suited to a higher speed passenger service, that's the fundamental problem.

Bingley are you a glass half full kind of bloke?
Single line for sure, with 6 passing loops and 3 stations with multiple tracks.
It's a matter of time table management to run a replacement train for one that already runs (albeit weekly)

I'm a simple kind of bloke. To me the faster a passenger train runs, the quicker it gets out of the way.

.......
justarider
I'm glass full all the time sort of person and in the past I have fought for the retention of passenger services. If someone came up with a sensible proposal I would willing give them my backing. Unfortunately the loopy and un-researched proposals we continually see pop up in this thread do nothing to bolster the argument for retaining the service.

As for track capacity - you have a passenger train at Point A, a freight at Point C, and Point B in between. They both can travel up to 115km/h so can meet and pass at Point B assuming distances are roughly equal.

Start running the passenger at 160km/h, the pass gets to point B early then has to wait for the freight to arrive thereby negating any benefit of the higher speed running...

OR the freight has to sit at Point C waiting for the pass to cover two sections, albeit @ 160km/h, but still forcing it to wait longer and impacting on the efficiency of the corridor.

Simples Razz
  justarider Train Controller

Conveniently forgetting it's predominantly a single track freight railway and the faster you go the more capacity you take up. Yeah, let's bring the corridor to a halt for a few OAPs and concession card holders.
The corridor isn't designed or suited to a higher speed passenger service, that's the fundamental problem.

Bingley are you a glass half full kind of bloke?
Single line for sure, with 6 passing loops and 3 stations with multiple tracks.
It's a matter of time table management to run a replacement train for one that already runs (albeit weekly)

I'm a simple kind of bloke. To me the faster a passenger train runs, the quicker it gets out of the way.

.......
I'm glass full all the time sort of person and in the past I have fought for the retention of passenger services. If someone came up with a sensible proposal I would willing give them my backing. Unfortunately the loopy and un-researched proposals we continually see pop up in this thread do nothing to bolster the argument for retaining the service.

As for track capacity - you have a passenger train at Point A, a freight at Point C, and Point B in between. They both can travel up to 115km/h so can meet and pass at Point B assuming distances are roughly equal.

Start running the passenger at 160km/h, the pass gets to point B early then has to wait for the freight to arrive thereby negating any benefit of the higher speed running...

OR the freight has to sit at Point C waiting for the pass to cover two sections, albeit @ 160km/h, but still forcing it to wait longer and impacting on the efficiency of the corridor.

Simples Razz
bingley hall
pleased to hear your glass is full.

point A B C equal distant is not what really happens, but I take your point.

The big assumption is that there are so many trains on that line that increasing the speed of one of them in a 24hr cycle will bring the whole world crashing down.
Not that many trains - and who are we kidding, freight trains averaging 115kph like passenger Overland.
There is already a large number of speed differentials which the time tables manage every day.

If the schedule can plan for 160kph then that is a bonus. If not then daily passenger Ararat-Dimboola is still a viable proposition @ 115kph.

cheers
John
  DJPeters Chief Train Controller

Axe the Overland and South Australia at least will not miss it, hardly any stops in SA now for it, and so we in South Australia are paying for a train that makes more stops in Victoria and is used by more in Victoria, so SA is really getting nothing out of the Overland service is it. Get V/Line to run a service in Victoria to take the place of the Overland that is now used and everyone wins. SA saves some money, not much but better than nothing and Victorians then pay for the train service that they actually use. GSR would even agree on this. No need to run to Adelaide though at all really if no one is using it like in Victoria. After the intial hoo hah when it is axed after a while no one would really miss it here in SA.

I think the last time I checked it's only two scheduled stops in SA is Murray Bridge and Bordertown and I dont think people in either place would actually miss it.  There are 6 stops in Victoria though, Nhill, Dimboola, Horsham, Stawell, Ararat and Geelong North Shore. So really it is a Victorian train service more than a SA one and SA is paying to keep it running.
  phower Chief Commissioner

Location: Over on Kangaroo Island Sth Aust
Axe the Overland and South Australia at least will not miss it, hardly any stops in SA now for it, and so we in South Australia are paying for a train that makes more stops in Victoria and is used by more in Victoria, so SA is really getting nothing out of the Overland service is it. Get V/Line to run a service in Victoria to take the place of the Overland that is now used and everyone wins. SA saves some money, not much but better than nothing and Victorians then pay for the train service that they actually use. GSR would even agree on this. No need to run to Adelaide though at all really if no one is using it like in Victoria. After the intial hoo hah when it is axed after a while no one would really miss it here in SA.

I think the last time I checked it's only two scheduled stops in SA is Murray Bridge and Bordertown and I dont think people in either place would actually miss it.  There are 6 stops in Victoria though, Nhill, Dimboola, Horsham, Stawell, Ararat and Geelong North Shore. So really it is a Victorian train service more than a SA one and SA is paying to keep it running.
In my opinion the "POWERS TO BE" stopped it by running into sidings to await other trains , all sorts of things   to mess it up, Get rid of PN  as the pulling power and get some one who cares put in its place .
When the mid week service was cut, it was a calculated risk to stop it , all becausethey wanted a public service to make a massive profit , well it wont .
The carriages are old hat and needed some work in fact plenty,  hence the risk one can only ERmm modify somtime but there comes a time when it needs a TOTAL rebuild and I would say 2/3 of the scrappers saying knock it off have never even worked on the railway .. arm chair  controllers........
  42101 A end Junior Train Controller

Phower has all the answers then it seems.
Yeah 20 years of Actualy being a Railworker in my case not some foamer with dreams like you.

The Overland is not worth running and PN have absolutly NO say in what the train path or were its put away at all ARTC do that....but of course lets just bash PN cause they evils.
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
Phower has all the answers then it seems.
Yeah 20 years of Actualy being a Railworker in my case not some foamer with dreams like you.

The Overland is not worth running and PN have absolutly NO say in what the train path or were its put away at all ARTC do that....but of course lets just bash PN cause they evils.
42101 A end
Not to mention that Monday's Overland has only ONE scheduled cross, at Monarto South for 15 minutes.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

One additional issue with cancelling the service altogether is that it would be the very first intercapital rail service to be abandoned. That may seem insignificant but on closer examination it provides an appalling precedent for the anti-rail lobby to pursue more heavily patronised but still subsidised services - like Brisbane-Sydney-Melbourne. And I can already see politicians campaigning against a Melbourne-Sydney HST with the "the Adelaide train was so quiet it doesn't run any more!" line.

I don't think it's a good look to see a capital passenger link being cut less than 20 years after the last one was completed.

Of course as I've said the service is absolutely not viable in its current form, but scrapping it altogether may well be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
  phower Chief Commissioner

Location: Over on Kangaroo Island Sth Aust
Phower has all the answers then it seems.
Yeah 20 years of Actualy being a Railworker in my case not some foamer with dreams like you.

The Overland is not worth running and PN have absolutly NO say in what the train path or were its put away at all ARTC do that....but of course lets just bash PN cause they evils.
42101 A end
BTW I was a railworker for the Sarailways then STA so yes I have some sort of idea and was also in some sort of idea as to what happens
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Well I'm going to try and catch it before its withdrawn in late Jan, nows the time to go on it if you want to before its gone!
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
One additional issue with cancelling the service altogether is that it would be the very first intercapital rail service to be abandoned. That may seem insignificant but on closer examination it provides an appalling precedent for the anti-rail lobby to pursue more heavily patronised but still subsidised services - like Brisbane-Sydney-Melbourne. And I can already see politicians campaigning against a Melbourne-Sydney HST with the "the Adelaide train was so quiet it doesn't run any more!" line.

I don't think it's a good look to see a capital passenger link being cut less than 20 years after the last one was completed.

Of course as I've said the service is absolutely not viable in its current form, but scrapping it altogether may well be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
potatoinmymouth
I know the Ghan used to run Melbourne-Adelaide, and it was cut due to performance, but I do think that looking at extending the Ghan back to MEL could be a useful exercise for GSR in the absence of the Overland.  I mentioned this before and I think it was said (not sure by who) that the Overland at 3pw was a big competitor to it , though I'm not really sure how the Overland could compete with the Ghan...
  42101 A end Junior Train Controller

The Alice from Sydney to Alice springs was scrapped.
Trans Australian from Adelaide to Perth was Also scrapped.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

I mentioned this before and I think it was said (not sure by who) that the Overland at 3pw was a big competitor to it , though I'm not really sure how the Overland could compete with the Ghan...
james.au
Whoever said that was an idiot.

The Ghan to Melbourne was never in competition with the Overland because they were one and the same thing. The train was really just a normal Overland running in the normal Overland timetable slot, just with a few coaches from the Ghan shunted into the consist.

GSR didn't take long to to grow tired of the charade of changing over the nameplates, and so the train would have a mix of Ghan and Overland nameplates on the side.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Well I'm going to try and catch it before its withdrawn in late Jan, nows the time to go on it if you want to before its gone!
Dangersdan707
Prepare to experience being a customer that GSR doesn't want; that was my distinct impression when I last caught it about five years ago.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Well I'm going to try and catch it before its withdrawn in late Jan, nows the time to go on it if you want to before its gone!
Prepare to experience being a customer that GSR doesn't want; that was my distinct impression when I last caught it about five years ago.
don_dunstan
Well, it doesn't seem like it from my email correspondence with them. all have been informative and helpfull

Now onto the point that no one uses the overland and long distance rail is dead.
In Queensland, they have 3 that seemingly no one uses the inlander, the Westlander and the spirit of the outback. Understandably these are under government control, unlike the overland. Seemingly whoever thought it would be a good idea to privatise AN's passenger operation didn't think it through
  allan Chief Commissioner

Seemingly whoever thought it would be a good idea to privatise AN's passenger operation didn't think it through
Dangersdan707
Quite the contrary, it was thought through, and the correct decision was made.

Sponsored advertisement

Display from: