Electric token block instrument full drawings?

 
  Hayden_Lynch Station Staff

Hi all,

I'm currently trying to hunt down some drawings of the electric token block instruments. Those of you who don't necessarily know what one is, here's a picture of one below:-



Any help would be greaty appreciated guys!

Cheers for now
Hayden Lynch

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  historian Deputy Commissioner

What do you mean by full drawings? Bear in mind that key token instruments are still actively used in the UK, so detailed part drawings are probably only available from the manufacturer and would have commercial and security sensitivity.

In any case, I would suggest that you would have better luck in a UK rail group. Key token instruments have never been used in Australia, and so you would be lucky indeed to find someone in an Australian newsgroup with that information.
  42101 Banned

Location: Banned
What do you mean by full drawings? Bear in mind that key token instruments are still actively used in the UK, so detailed part drawings are probably only available from the manufacturer and would have commercial and security sensitivity.

In any case, I would suggest that you would have better luck in a UK rail group. Key token instruments have never been used in Australia, and so you would be lucky indeed to find someone in an Australian newsgroup with that information.
"historian"


You might want to check your facts.

Parkes to Peak Hill minature elec staff was a key staff for trains to lock themselves into Goonumbla siding with the staff being locked away in a draw instrument at Goonumbla.

Try ARHS archieves section for these drawings.
  historian Deputy Commissioner

You might want to check your facts.


I am quite confident of my facts, thank you nasty one.

Parkes to Peak Hill minature elec staff was a key staff for trains to lock themselves into Goonumbla siding with the staff being locked away in a draw instrument at Goonumbla.


There is a difference between key token instruments and key staffs. The original post asked about instruments and illustrated a key token instrument.

A key token instrument is a specific type of electric token instruments. Other types of token instruments are Tyers Tablet and Electric Staff instruments. Key token instruments were invented on the GWR and manufactured by Tyers. As I said, Key Token instruments were never used in Australia. By the time they had been invented the various Australian railways had standardised on other types of instruments (largely electric staff).

Key staffs were simply the application of an ordinary Annett key to the end of an electric staff to unlock an intermediate siding. They were common in NSW.
  Sir Thomas Bent Minister for Railways

Location: Banned


You might want to check your facts.

"42101"
Mate, I can assure you he genuinely knows his stuff here.  Let it pass.

________________________________


May as well ask you; what is the difference between the two?  I know the difference between Tyers tablet system and electric staff in a passing manner, but key tokens I know 1/10th of very little.
  wurx Lithgovian Ambassador-at-Large

Location: The mystical lost principality of Daptovia
As a slightly OT point of interest, there is one CityRail line where electric staff is still used - the Kiama-Bomaderry (Nowra) branch of the South Coast line 8)
  42101 Banned

Location: Banned


You might want to check your facts.

"42101"
Mate, I can assure you he genuinely knows his stuff here.  Let it pass.

________________________________


May as well ask you; what is the difference between the two?  I know the difference between Tyers tablet system and electric staff in a passing manner, but key tokens I know 1/10th of very little.
"Sir Thomas Bent"


Was not going to say any thing further anyway mate.
________________________________
  wongm GEEWONG

Location: Geelong, Victoria
May as well ask you; what is the difference between the two?  I know the difference between Tyers tablet system and electric staff in a passing manner, but key tokens I know 1/10th of very little.
"Sir Thomas Bent"

Is "Tyers tablet" the "Electric Tablet" system that saw limited use in Victoria?
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

Is "Tyers tablet" the "Electric Tablet" system that saw limited use in Victoria?
"wongm"

The VR used Tyers No.5 Tablet (after a very brief flirtation with the No 1 version). They were in use from 1892, but Electric Staff began being implemented in 1895, so limited in time, but had quiite a wide coverage as tablets were used over (amongst others) the North Eastern line and the South Western line.  I am not certain when the last tablet section was in use, but they were still in use on the line through Brooklyn in 1960.
  Sir Thomas Bent Minister for Railways

Location: Banned
C D Gavan Duffy managed to obtain two of the last instruments in use: from memory, one is in Seymour and the other is in the ARHS Museum.
  historian Deputy Commissioner

Duttonbay has given most of the details, I'll just fill in a few gaps.

There was only one section of No 1 Pattern Tablet in Victoria: Goulburn Junction - Seymour. We don't know where the VR got the instruments, but they were well and truely obsolete when installed.

No 5 Pattern Tablet was never used on the Warrnambool line - it went straight from Staff & Ticket to Electric Staff. It's main use was on the North East main line where it lasted until around 1913. After that odd sections survived - it was used between North Fitztroy A and Northcote Loop Junction on the Suburban line until 1932, for example. The very last sections were, as duttonbay says, on the Brooklyn loop line: Newport - Thomas Mill - Brooklyn A - Sunshine. The very last section was Brooklyn A - Sunshine which went in 1960.
  historian Deputy Commissioner

May as well ask you; what is the difference between the two? I know the difference between Tyers tablet system and electric staff in a passing manner, but key tokens I know 1/10th of very little.


The token in a key token is, well, a key (duh, I know). It's easier to look at a photo than describe it. This page illustrates different types of tokens
http://www.trainweb.org/rcn_uk/slt.html. Key tokens are towards the bottom.

Electrically, a key token instrument is very similar in principle to an electric staff instrument. Removing or inserting a key changes the polarity of the current sent to line and a token can only be removed if a polarised lock lifts when receiving current of correct polarity. Mechanically, they are much better designed than an electric staff instrument. If you have ever seen inside a staff instrument, it is solid brass and cast iron, almost impossible to work on. Key Token instruments innards are easily accessible and the case just lifts off.

If you've got enough money you can still buy new key token instruments from the UK company STSRail http://www.sts-rail.com/other/key_tokens_instruments/index.html
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

No 5 Pattern Tablet was never used on the Warrnambool line - it went straight from Staff & Ticket to Electric Staff.
"historian"

Apologies for the misleading information. I have no idea why I mentioned the South Western line.  Trying to reply to posts and do my daytime job simultaneously, I guess...

A couple of other places were there were tablets were Moorabool-Gheringhap when the viaduct was singled (this section later becoming the first use of electric staff in Victoria) and Nyora-Korumburra.

Some other odd sections: Williamstown Beach to Williamstown during the wheat season, when the double line was operated as two independent single lines, and interestingly, when the North Geelong loop opened there was no C box, and tablet controlled the line around the loop all the way to Moorabool where it joined the line to Ballarat.
  historian Deputy Commissioner

Some other odd sections: Williamstown Beach to Williamstown during the wheat season, when the double line was operated as two independent single lines, and interestingly, when the North Geelong loop opened there was no C box, and tablet controlled the line around the loop all the way to Moorabool where it joined the line to Ballarat.


Where there were two adjacent single lines, the VR liked to use tablet on one line and electric stafff on the other. This obviously reduced the chance of confusion on the part of the train crew or station staff! In more recent times, they have used large and miniature electric staff in the same way - the Brooklyn loop was a good example.

The two examples quoted by duttonbay, and my earlier example of North Fitzroy A - Northcote Loop Junction, all fell into this category. One additional example (which I always forget about) was Wodonga B - Wodonga Coal Sidings - Albury South on the standard gauge line. It's not clear when these instruments went out of service (perhaps a NSW reader can help). The Coal Sidings - Albury South were withdrawn in 1954 when both lines were gauntletted over the bridges, and large electric staff was provided on that section in 1961 when the separate lines were restored. The Wodonga - Coal Sidings section is less clear; certainly it was large electric staff in 1964 - but does this date from 1961 or 1954?
  gordon_s1942 Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Tablelands of NSW
There was a Tablet system used in NSW and I read but avoided qualifying in it when I did my Safeworking, circa 1962 in which I did TBA and Block Telegraph (double line)
By the time I did single line Staff and Ticket and Electric Staff mid 1966, Tablet was no more or at least I didnt have to qualify in it.
The only section I know that still had it in use was the Blayney to Carcoar section around 1964/65?
I have a feeling when the Tablet was removed from Blayney, it might have been replaced with Staff and Ticket as the Blayney to Demondrille branch was by then running few trains.
According to the General Appendix part 2 of 1944, this tablet was round (wood with metal band)  and was raised with a sort of lever and once removed could not be reinserted into that machine. It had to travel the section.
  Radioman Chief Train Controller

Hi all,

I'm currently trying to hunt down some drawings of the electric token block instruments. Those of you who don't necessarily know what one is, here's a picture of one below:-



Any help would be greaty appreciated guys!

Cheers for now
Hayden Lynch
Hayden_Lynch
Hello All,

attached is a link from the GWR Instructions, 1938 for working Tyers No 9 Key token Instrument

( http://www.gwr.org.uk/electric-token.html )

I understand that the NSWGR used all versions of Tyers Electric Tablet , including rebuilds ( presumably to make non returnable instruments returnable ) except for 7B which was specifically for the GWR !

Regards, Radioman.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Hi all,

I'm currently trying to hunt down some drawings of the electric token block instruments. Those of you who don't necessarily know what one is, here's a picture of one below:-



Any help would be greaty appreciated guys!

Cheers for now
Hayden Lynch
Hello All,

attached is a link from the GWR Instructions, 1938 for working Tyers No 9 Key token Instrument

( http://www.gwr.org.uk/electric-token.html )

I understand that the NSWGR used all versions of Tyers Electric Tablet , including rebuilds ( presumably to make non returnable instruments returnable ) except for 7B which was specifically for the GWR !

Regards, Radioman.
Radioman
Thanks Radioman.
Very interesting.
Isn't it great to read a set of clear, straight forward and well worded instructions in good English unlike much of the ambiguous drivel that is written today?

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