NSW Gov and Transport Heritage NSW announce Chullora Heritage Hub

 
  SydneyCider Chief Train Controller

NSW Government and Transport Heritage NSW have announced the plan to establish the "Chullora Heritage Hub" which will become a centralised maintenance and operations facility to be developed at Chullora in 2019. It will provide a one stop shop for proper storage for heritage rolling stock and objects to protect them from exterior deterioration, large workshop for restoration and maintenance works as well as taking advantage of Chullora's central position in Sydney with access to the various primary lines around and leading out of Sydney and potential for other recognised heritage transport groups to have a presence at the new hub.

They have particularly made point that the establishment of the Chullora Hub means THNSW will no longer have collection items at Eveleigh and Broadmeadow while the NSW Rail Museum will remain the premiere public showcase for rail heritage in NSW.

Full information, video and future updates at this page:- https://www.transportheritagensw.com.au/chullora

Post on THNSW Facebook page:- https://www.facebook.com/TransportHeritageNSW/videos/2334280733473656/


No doubt the rolling stock stored at Broadmeadow would be the first to get transferred given how much is stored out doors.

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  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Now watch the Victorians ( and I'm one of them) go green with envy about a government that is actually interesting in railway heritage.
Meanwhile, exhibits rust away at the open salt-laden air of the ARHS museum at North Williamstown, and the plan to house these in the old Newport Workshops turns another year older and no closer to fruition than it was 30 years ago.
NSW 10 out of 10; Victoria yet to score.
  stopblock Junior Train Controller

Location: Planet Earth
Now watch the Victorians ( and I'm one of them) go green with envy about a government that is actually interesting in railway heritage.
Meanwhile, exhibits rust away at the open salt-laden air of the ARHS museum at North Williamstown, and the plan to house these in the old Newport Workshops turns another year older and no closer to fruition than it was 30 years ago.
NSW 10 out of 10; Victoria yet to score.
Valvegear
Isn't that the craziest outcome for a state like NSW with a Liberal (ostensibly "anti-working Class") government versus a state like Victoria with an (ostensibly pro-working class) Labour government. Having recently visited Victoria, with such a vibrant railway history, and state assets left to rust, I just don't get it.
Please forgive me for making a stereotype cast of our our governments, or political policies, but I just could not help make the comparison!!!
  a6et Minister for Railways

Now watch the Victorians ( and I'm one of them) go green with envy about a government that is actually interesting in railway heritage.
Meanwhile, exhibits rust away at the open salt-laden air of the ARHS museum at North Williamstown, and the plan to house these in the old Newport Workshops turns another year older and no closer to fruition than it was 30 years ago.
NSW 10 out of 10; Victoria yet to score.
Valvegear
Its an interesting proposal and not really a surprising one either, the location appears to be the old main locomotive workshops, that was the primary overhauling location for some smaller clases of steam, along with the 36, 38, 57, 58cl pre diesel days, when the place was used for overhauls on the main line diesel fleet including 46cl.

The worst part of it to me still is that its a distance away from actual PT, and for me the LES would still be the best location for those overhauls, as its close to PT and could be easier to get volunteers who are not dependant on cars for transport there.  Also if the overhead facilities in the LES were used it could also open up tourist visits similar but on a lesser scale than York in England.

The land at Chullora may not be as valuable though as that found at Eveleigh as already Google wants the place to convert to a technology hub, likewise at BMD, that land on the old depot is quite valuable most likely it along with Eveleigh will be sold off and all knocked down.

Also have a suspicion that this announcement has a smell about it as being a big ticket thingy for next years State election.
  SydneyCider Chief Train Controller

I don't know much about the Victorian situation but have seen a few frustrated comments when they see our (NSW) annual Transport Heritage Expo event and the recent news that for the first time in over a decade an electric locomotive has been re-activated with potentially a couple more on the way over time, while they are still struggling to try and get their L under the wires.

Speaking of the electrics though, not sure how that would work for them out of a base at Chullora. As far as I understand, quite a bit of the overhead has either been removed or de-electrified. From what I understand, it was common to have electrics, particularly the locos, go through Sefton Junction? to/from the Southern Line via Sefton/Villawood/Leightonfield and then via the Metropolitan Goods line to gain access to the Illlawarra line to go to the city or South Coast and further to that the line via the Golf Course/Rookwood to get to the Western Line near Lidcombe.


EDIT: They've updated the web page with a fact sheet with more info on the selection of the Chullora site, amount of undercover space needed. They also mentioned the Paint Shop, I assume this is the HET home base with the vintage electrics? where it seems these items will also be moved to Chullora. There is also further mentioned that other heritage groups with legitimate restoration projects and storage challenges will be able to have a presence there, whether they are rail, bus or tram.

https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/367ea5_cbbff71ff9d24b84b89c277ff46cf98f.pdf (PDF Document fact sheet direct link)
  fernhill Chief Train Controller

There goes any commitment to Eveleigh, my fears are the developers already at the door.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Now watch the Victorians ( and I'm one of them) go green with envy about a government that is actually interesting in railway heritage.
Meanwhile, exhibits rust away at the open salt-laden air of the ARHS museum at North Williamstown, and the plan to house these in the old Newport Workshops turns another year older and no closer to fruition than it was 30 years ago.
NSW 10 out of 10; Victoria yet to score.
Valvegear
Meanwhile the member for Williamstown is the new Minister for Transport.
Is that a potentially a good or a potentially bad thing?
Too soon to know as it is only a week since she was even elected to Parliament.
  GeoffreyHansen Minister for Railways

Location: In a FAM sleeper
Wasn't the original RTM nearby at Enfield It would be good if they could have an electrified section.

This does seem to be a move in favour of the developers at Eveleigh.
  apw5910 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
Yes, if only there was a roundhouse (or three...) nearby to display locomotives in their natural environment.

I think we can also expect an announcement soon saying Eveleigh has been "preserved" for development.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
and for me the LES would still be the best location
a6et
Yes, except for the fact that towers of offices (maybe also residential) are going up all round - the LES is currently the odd one out.......
  safeworking Station Staff

Location: Bungendore
This announcement is one of the best ones since Shirley shut down Enfield and kicked out RTM to Thirlmere all those decades ago.  Realistically neither Eveleigh nor Broadmeadow offer anything like the maintenance and storage facilities on offer at Chullora in a location which has considerable historical associations.  In the 1920s, Chullora was selected as Eveleigh's replacement, not as it turned out, a co-location for maintenance.  It is interesting that the current CEO of NSW Rail Heritage was headhunted from Qld's Ipswich facility, a place which we have been green with envy over for decades, and on which this proposal appears to be modelled. What came first, the CEO or this proposal?  Only with access to the depths of bureaucratic decision making will we find out; historians please note.

Perhaps we can retain access to some of Broadmeadow for an operation similar to Valley Heights, a lap of gods situation. Eveleigh is more problematic, both on a land use basis and on an operational basis. Network operations there are becoming increasingly congested around there, and we know how heritage operations will fare in this scenario.

Let us take this announcement and run with it: to make sure it becomes a reality. Don't forget there are State and Federal elections coming up soon.  Heritage announcements have a nasty habit of conveniently disappearing around elections, especially if a change of government eventuates.
  a6et Minister for Railways

This announcement is one of the best ones since Shirley shut down Enfield and kicked out RTM to Thirlmere all those decades ago.  Realistically neither Eveleigh nor Broadmeadow offer anything like the maintenance and storage facilities on offer at Chullora in a location which has considerable historical associations.  In the 1920s, Chullora was selected as Eveleigh's replacement, not as it turned out, a co-location for maintenance.  It is interesting that the current CEO of NSW Rail Heritage was headhunted from Qld's Ipswich facility, a place which we have been green with envy over for decades, and on which this proposal appears to be modelled. What came first, the CEO or this proposal?  Only with access to the depths of bureaucratic decision making will we find out; historians please note.

Perhaps we can retain access to some of Broadmeadow for an operation similar to Valley Heights, a lap of gods situation. Eveleigh is more problematic, both on a land use basis and on an operational basis. Network operations there are becoming increasingly congested around there, and we know how heritage operations will fare in this scenario.

Let us take this announcement and run with it: to make sure it becomes a reality. Don't forget there are State and Federal elections coming up soon.  Heritage announcements have a nasty habit of conveniently disappearing around elections, especially if a change of government eventuates.
safeworking
While Chullora has done a great job in the past, so too has the LES.  Thing is that all major depots in the state had facilities for the overhaul of more than just locomotives, but it was a primary job for them and that included BMD, Enfield, Glbn. Junee, BX. Parkes, WCK, as the main locations.  PTW also was included in that as well.

The one big difference with the LES, along with Cardiff was they also built steam locomotives, and the equipment reguired for that work was on hand. By adding the Ipswich aspect into this debate which is a positive if the new boss has the resources that he had at Ipswich, which is not too dissimilar to the work that the LES and surrounding workshops also had.

The big aspect with the LES and the surrounding areas, also was a major training centre for apprentices, not just from the Sydney region but also from many rural towns and cities, thing is that much of that ability has now gone owing to the destruction on the Carriage works side.  However, the big thing is that all suburban trains stop at Redfern and makes it an easy place, in general to get to when compared with Chullora especially with PT.

Much of the heavy lift equipment is still in place and while the nearby apprentice accommodation is no longer available its still an easy place to access should the next real step be taken up, and that is to train workers for repairs and the like to maintain the historical fleet in conditions that are presentable to the public but also keeps history alive.
  TheFish Chief Train Controller

Location: Pyongyang
This announcement is one of the best ones since Shirley shut down Enfield and kicked out RTM to Thirlmere all those decades ago.  Realistically neither Eveleigh nor Broadmeadow offer anything like the maintenance and storage facilities on offer at Chullora in a location which has considerable historical associations.  In the 1920s, Chullora was selected as Eveleigh's replacement, not as it turned out, a co-location for maintenance.  It is interesting that the current CEO of NSW Rail Heritage was headhunted from Qld's Ipswich facility, a place which we have been green with envy over for decades, and on which this proposal appears to be modelled. What came first, the CEO or this proposal?  Only with access to the depths of bureaucratic decision making will we find out; historians please note.

Perhaps we can retain access to some of Broadmeadow for an operation similar to Valley Heights, a lap of gods situation. Eveleigh is more problematic, both on a land use basis and on an operational basis. Network operations there are becoming increasingly congested around there, and we know how heritage operations will fare in this scenario.

Let us take this announcement and run with it: to make sure it becomes a reality. Don't forget there are State and Federal elections coming up soon.  Heritage announcements have a nasty habit of conveniently disappearing around elections, especially if a change of government eventuates.
safeworking
I agree.

I think the first really important thing to come out of this is the fact that there is so much undercover storage space that can be utilised.  Finally having every significant item in the state's collection, as well as items from other operators who may become involved, undercover is one of the biggest advantages of this move.  At the moment most items at Broadmeadow as disintegrating in the open, not to mention the lack of storage at Thirlmere which has always been a problem.  Leave many of those items outside another 10-20 years and they'll be unrecoverable, as some already are.  

Eveleigh does have the advantages of its location and aesthetic but is a more restricted site and as I understand it there are questions over whether the overhead cranes could ever work again due to the condition of the building.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong.  

I know many of us would love all these sites to be maintained and usable as museums/workshops/storage but that simply isn't possible.  Unifying everything under one roof, particularly major boiler and mechanical work as well as operations has so many advantages to it.  We all (me included) keep banging on about how skills are being lost and steam preservation is amateurish in terms of the work done in this state, which is very true.  While THNSW is definitely succeeding at major overhaul and restoration in-house it is clear other smaller groups are struggling.  This proposal, I think, will do something about these issues.  

Centralising skills and experience in one place where skilled workers (paid and volunteer) will carry on from one project to the next is the best way forward for all owner/operators.  Previous groundbreaking projects such as 3265's or 3801's boilers have all been completed by different people and different organisations.  What is the problem with this?  The knowledge built up is not transferred on to the next project effectively.  

If we take major boiler work, as an example, it is entirely plausible that between THNSW, Lachlan Valley and other operators at least one if not more boilers could be being worked on at Chullora at any one time.  This would provide a continuous stream of work and a highly skilled central facility would be the result.  

Even if Eveleigh is repurposed for non-rail use a small part of it could be made into a discovery centre.  This could feature a small number of exhibits that provide tangible examples of the whole site's history.  A small version of "Steam" at Swindon could tell the story of locomotive construction and maintenance as well as providing a sales point/taster for other rail heritage experiences like mainline trains or Thirlmere.
  fernhill Chief Train Controller

The Large will become a Supermarket for a well known chain by a well known developer. So effectively heritage is being just pushed aside even though it has been operating at Eveleigh for 130 years.  Soon they will want the land at Chullora and you will be pushed around again. Rail heritage is more then just rolling stock just like the loss of Enfield roundhouses. Somebody else is pushing this agenda and trying to make it a good news story lol
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

The Large will become a Supermarket for a well known chain by a well known developer. So effectively heritage is being just pushed aside even though it has been operating at Eveleigh for 130 years.  Soon they will want the land at Chullora and you will be pushed around again. Rail heritage is more then just rolling stock just like the loss of Enfield roundhouses. Somebody else is pushing this agenda and trying to make it a good news story lol
fernhill
I recommend you wear a aluminium foil hat.
  a6et Minister for Railways

The Large will become a Supermarket for a well known chain by a well known developer. So effectively heritage is being just pushed aside even though it has been operating at Eveleigh for 130 years.  Soon they will want the land at Chullora and you will be pushed around again. Rail heritage is more then just rolling stock just like the loss of Enfield roundhouses. Somebody else is pushing this agenda and trying to make it a good news story lol
I recommend you wear a aluminium foil hat.
nswtrains
Just google it.
  GrahamH Chief Commissioner

Location: At a terminal on the www.
Surprised at the NSW Govt estimating that there is a significant voting block in rail heritage.
RIP LES.
  a6et Minister for Railways

Surprised at the NSW Govt estimating that there is a significant voting block in rail heritage.
RIP LES.
GrahamH
They are too pig headed in seeing beyond their own agenda's which includes selling off that much of our real heritage, and not using it correctly, that it does not take long for them to also become deaf pigs regarding anything that is different to their own designs.

Other aspects and has been there for years is the divisions within rail groups who say they want to preserve, few would be worth being considered for a pickling jar, be out on the reject bin.
  ssaunders Train Controller

UGL moved out as they couldn't make it work with the rent the NSW Govt charged. No other commercial business wanted the site for the asking price. While a good location for heritage when someone else is paying it has its limitations operationally.

ss
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

UGL moved out as they couldn't make it work with the rent the NSW Govt charged. No other commercial business wanted the site for the asking price. While a good location for heritage when someone else is paying it has its limitations operationally.

ss
ssaunders
It's not meant to be an operational site. However, there are still plenty of rail to test restorations etc.
  zordmaker Train Controller

Location: NSW
Now watch the Victorians ( and I'm one of them) go green with envy about a government that is actually interesting in railway heritage.
Meanwhile, exhibits rust away at the open salt-laden air of the ARHS museum at North Williamstown, and the plan to house these in the old Newport Workshops turns another year older and no closer to fruition than it was 30 years ago.
NSW 10 out of 10; Victoria yet to score.
Valvegear
You have no idea how long and how many people have died waiting for this moment.  I was almost one of them. The tears in my eyes for good mates now long gone who never lived to see this moment pour deep in my heart.

Actually, the NSW Government doesn't see any value in "heritage trains." It sees them as a pest handed to them by a previous administration.

However unlike the previous administration, it recognises that heritage trains create bums (and wallets) on seats and then carries these bums and wallets to all corners of the state to spend cash and thus boost the NSW economy.

There are many NSW enthusiasts who don't like what's happening up here. The commercialization of the "customer experience," the change in direction to get as many people in as they can to spend as much money as possible. It's ironic that they learned this lesson from the premier rail tourist attraction in Australia - Victoria's own "Puffing Billy".

The "New Guard" controlling the purse strings up here expect results at every turn. Passenger numbers and visitor numbers are everything. Restorations are expected to be of "commercial quality" and ready for the rigors of regular, heavy use on heritage trains full of punters looking for something different.  Sadly that sometimes leaves other things to rot.

Thankfully they have also realised that the life blood of heritage rail - it's passionate volunteers - are the key to keeping that bandwagon rolling. We have a long way to go, but the Chullora Heritage Hub is the answer to Shaun Mullins' comment four years ago when he observed NSW Heritage. He said : NSW Rail heritage is a donut with a hole in the middle. And in the middle of that donut, is Sydney. And Sydney is where the people and volunteers are.

Consider the donut hole filled.

Approximately one third of the Chullora facility will house the rapidly growing heritage electric fleet ex North Evelegh. I guess you could say there's thirty years of my life in that decision..
  zordmaker Train Controller

Location: NSW

Speaking of the electrics though, not sure how that would work for them out of a base at Chullora.
SydneyCider
We've been promised an electrified siding _somewhere_ at Chullora, with access to / from Lidcombe Triangle & Flemington. I might not live to see this happen though.

It's more likely that a number of roads will eventually be reserved at Flemo M/C for two working heritage electric sets. These will then be shuffled to and from Chullora as required, at least in the short term. I doubt there will ever be more than two operating at once at any one given moment.

That said, the aim is eventually for;

1 x 6 Car F1 Set (Special charters) - expandable to 8 cars for very special events with the addition of 3102/4279.
1 x 4 Car W3 Set - to be dropped in to regular Sydney Trains runs as appropriate, particularly Olympic Park shuttles
1 x 4 Car U2 Set - Long term project but this will of course be a special charter set running to all corners of the network
1 x 4 Car S Set - will be preserved in operating condition - See W3 Above
1 x 4 Car V Set - will be preserved in operating condition - Special Charters

The standard they expect these things to be maintained to is very high, far greater than they were in regular traffic. In the medium term I really can;t see this happening without at least some full time staff.
  fernhill Chief Train Controller

You think this is about trains. Lol And Eveleigh will become a Koles Supermarket   Chullora is the latest way of achieving what the developers mates want. Demand. 50 year lease or forget their offer
  zordmaker Train Controller

Location: NSW
You think this is about trains. Lol And Eveleigh will become a Koles Supermarket   Chullora is the latest way of achieving what the developers mates want. Demand. 50 year lease or forget their offer
fernhill
We all know that possession is 9/10ths of the law and in these cases, leases mean nothing.

HET has happily "occupied" the Paint shop now for 18 years.

You're 100% right though.. this is NOT about trains.

At present, there are three sites (Paint Shop, LES and Broadmeadow) that the Government want for other purposes. They are currently full of heritage listed assets and so the only way they can get their hands on them is to offer an alternative to house these. This argy bargy has been going on for 20 years plus. Chullora was proposed as long ago as 2005 and has been on and off the agenda ever since.

In the end, the land under Chullora is worth a lot less than that under the other sites and so it's in their best financial interest to proceed in this way, with the added advantage that they get a nice election sweetener. The re purposing of the other sites will easily cover the cost of developing Chullora.

$8m has already been set aside for the project, with an ultimate expectation of around $20m by the time the project is complete.

Oh and yeah.. you'd fit about six Coles supermarkets in the LES. Good luck to them.

I know that Sydney Trains strongly oppose some of these proposals, with the intent that they need these sites for operational purposes because during peak hours there are no paths available between Flemington and Central.
  SydneyCider Chief Train Controller


Speaking of the electrics though, not sure how that would work for them out of a base at Chullora.

1 x 6 Car F1 Set (Special charters) - expandable to 8 cars for very special events with the addition of 3102/4279.
zordmaker
Thanks for the info.

Just curious, which other 2 cars are being looked at to bump F1 up to 6 cars? I think the HET website mentioned something about T4554. I take it the 6th one will be a motor car?

I actually saw on the Sydney Trains facebook page F1 was used by "Santa" to bring gifts to kids for the Westmead Children's Hospital, a nice gesture. I could totally see the Parcel Van fulfilling that duty one day - Santa's Parcels for Christmas Very Happy

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