2018 State Election / Transport

 
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Alternatively, language evolves. I'd imagine your parents and grandparents wouldn't know some of the words you use commonly these days either.

Calling the Princes Highway the Princess Highway is not correct though (although given it is named after the prince who became Edward VIII, a Nazi sympathiser, it might be for the best the name is changed).
Given that the Highway in question passes through 3 States, I can't imagine them all agreeing to change the name, let alone deciding on a new name.

Now we are really off on a tangent...

It's only the Princes Highway in Victoria.

In NSW it's the Pacific Highway, in Qld it's the Bruce Highway etc.
Oh dear. Sad

A good road trip will fix you up!
DirtyBallast

Do I have to drive...

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  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
The ALP have claimed victory in the seat of hawthorn  

Libs are over for a generation.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
The ALP have claimed victory in the seat of hawthorn  

Libs are over for a generation.
freightgate
With claims like that and a short memory you had better hope that history doesn't repeat itself.

The ALP in Victoria won the 2002 election in a landslide taking 62 seats, more than they have won in the latest election.

By 2010 they were gone, defeated by Ted Baillieu's Liberals.

What do they say about those who cannot remember the past.......

BG
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
The ALP have claimed victory in the seat of hawthorn  

Libs are over for a generation.
With claims like that and a short memory you had better hope that history doesn't repeat itself.

The ALP in Victoria won the 2002 election in a landslide taking 62 seats, more than they have won in the latest election.

By 2010 they were gone, defeated by Ted Baillieu's Liberals.

What do they say about those who cannot remember the past.......

BG
BrentonGolding

Labor under John Brumby in 2010 were gone because of the late trains on the Frankston line.

Fortunately the trains run less late on the Frankston line nowadays, in part due to the additional running time to help off-set the late running.

Hawthorn was only ever won by John Cain senior in the mid 1950's so it's a big win for Dan...but more than that, it's an historic win because of Hawthorn in particular and the surprising swings in Caulfield and Brighton.

Mike.
  woodford Chief Commissioner

The ALP have claimed victory in the seat of hawthorn  

Libs are over for a generation.
With claims like that and a short memory you had better hope that history doesn't repeat itself.

The ALP in Victoria won the 2002 election in a landslide taking 62 seats, more than they have won in the latest election.

By 2010 they were gone, defeated by Ted Baillieu's Liberals.

What do they say about those who cannot remember the past.......

BG
BrentonGolding
A couple of points...............

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" George Santayana 1863-1952.

The ALP was last defeated in 2010, this is well within the memory of most politicians no matter how stupid. As is the very rare single term defeat of the Liberals in 2014 because the did there thing INSTEAD of what the people wished.

The ALP does not have control of the upper house so they cannot bulldoze through anything they like, they DO need to get other people to see there view.

This means there has been two serious party political disasters in the last 8 years because the party concerned thought they did not need to listen to anyone. Surely surely surely there politicians are not that stupid to NOT learn something from this.

One though would not hold up much hope, we now have a chance to see how stupid they really are.

woodford
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

In any case, 8 years (if that’s what you’re hinting at BG) is what I would argue constitutes a political generation.

It would take some seriously bad missteps to create an election-losing swing in 4 years. And remember, this election has shown that some of the political wisdom about what such missteps might be has been overturned by this election.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
The ALP does not have control of the upper house so they cannot bulldoze through anything they like, they DO need to get other people to see there view.
woodford
True, but they only need a couple of cross benchers to get what they want.  Im sure they can find some low cost projects for particular electorates every now and then to get some independents on side....
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
So, Ripon has gone across to Labor with a very very very slim margin.

Politically, what do we think this might mean about SG for Maryborough-Ballarat and SG Ararat-Ballarat?  We think it to be logical (albeit with additional costs involved for rollingstock, and Ararat-Ballarat though offset by no DG to Maryborough) but from a public opinion what would the thinking be?  The biggest disbenefits would be the disruption for conversion, and the lack of a direct Ararat-Melbourne connection.

But on the Lowan side, returning more frequent rail to Horsham, avoiding any loss of popularity from the cutting of the Overland, may be seen as a positive.

How do the politics play out on this.

Does Labour care as much?

EDIT: Ripon district map (incl rail lines) here
https://www.vec.vic.gov.au/images/maps/Ripon%20District%20MapHR.pdf
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
The ALP have claimed victory in the seat of hawthorn  

Libs are over for a generation.
With claims like that and a short memory you had better hope that history doesn't repeat itself.

The ALP in Victoria won the 2002 election in a landslide taking 62 seats, more than they have won in the latest election.

By 2010 they were gone, defeated by Ted Baillieu's Liberals.

What do they say about those who cannot remember the past.......
BrentonGolding

A statistic I read recently was at the end of this new 4 year term ALP will have been in power in Victoria for 16 out of 19 years which when you consider the ALP is highly likely to win again in 2022 this is close enough to 25 years.  

that is close to a generation
  Adogs Chief Train Controller

The ALP have claimed victory in the seat of hawthorn  

Libs are over for a generation.
With claims like that and a short memory you had better hope that history doesn't repeat itself.

The ALP in Victoria won the 2002 election in a landslide taking 62 seats, more than they have won in the latest election.

By 2010 they were gone, defeated by Ted Baillieu's Liberals.

What do they say about those who cannot remember the past.......

A statistic I read recently was at the end of this new 4 year term ALP will have been in power in Victoria for 16 out of 19 years which when you consider the ALP is highly likely to win again in 2022 this is close enough to 25 years.  

that is close to a generation
x31

More than that.  By the end of the coming term in 2022, Labor will have been in power for 19 out of 23 years.

Another way to look at it is that Labor has won 8 out of the last 11 state elections - since 1982 the only Coalition wins have been Kennett's two wins in the 90s and Baillieu's win in 2010.  Many people forget that Kennett lost more state elections (1985, 1988 and 1999) than he won (1992 and 1996).

Also - there will be a redistribution before the next election, that will reduce the number of eastern suburb seats (which are largely under-quota) and increase the number of western suburb seats (which are mainly over-quota).  Given the voting habits of the various sides of Melbourne, this will make it even harder for the Libs to have a realistic shot at taking back power.  So by 2026 we'll probably be looking at Labor having been in power for 23 out of the past 27 years.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

When the Wimmera Transport Study was done for agroup of Western Councils the proposal was put  :

Option - 1 SG trains from Hamilton & Horsham direct to North Shore and Melbourne via Cressy  (slower, longer travel time) or
Option - 2 SG trains from Horsham and Hamilton via Ararat to Ballarat . Same platform transfer at Ballarat to bg services to Melbourne . (Faster and higher frequency like Weekdays - Ararat 6, Horsham 4, Hamilton 3 return trips .)

The overwhelming preference was for Option - 2 higher frequency, shorter travel time and change at Ballarat .

IIRC the report recommended  5 - 6 x 2 car V/Locity sg sets based at Ballarat could run the above timetable plus 3 return trips to Maryborough on Weekdays .

So no dual gauge necessary between Ballarat and Maryborough, use those $ to standardize Ballarat - Ararat instead - far more sensible .

So far no interest from Labor in implementing a report they part funded along with Wimmera Councils , only a continued dogged determination to have dual gauge between Ballarat and Maryborough which is totally unnecessary and a criminal waste of scarce capital funds .  (Simply because V/Line does nt like standard gauge passenger operations .)
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

The ALP have claimed victory in the seat of hawthorn  

Libs are over for a generation.
With claims like that and a short memory you had better hope that history doesn't repeat itself.

The ALP in Victoria won the 2002 election in a landslide taking 62 seats, more than they have won in the latest election.

By 2010 they were gone, defeated by Ted Baillieu's Liberals.

What do they say about those who cannot remember the past.......

A statistic I read recently was at the end of this new 4 year term ALP will have been in power in Victoria for 16 out of 19 years which when you consider the ALP is highly likely to win again in 2022 this is close enough to 25 years.  

that is close to a generation

More than that.  By the end of the coming term in 2022, Labor will have been in power for 19 out of 23 years.

Another way to look at it is that Labor has won 8 out of the last 11 state elections - since 1982 the only Coalition wins have been Kennett's two wins in the 90s and Baillieu's win in 2010.  Many people forget that Kennett lost more state elections (1985, 1988 and 1999) than he won (1992 and 1996).

Also - there will be a redistribution before the next election, that will reduce the number of eastern suburb seats (which are largely under-quota) and increase the number of western suburb seats (which are mainly over-quota).  Given the voting habits of the various sides of Melbourne, this will make it even harder for the Libs to have a realistic shot at taking back power.  So by 2026 we'll probably be looking at Labor having been in power for 23 out of the past 27 years.
Adogs
I think this puts it into perspective somewhat. Whatever else might have influenced the state's drift to Labor in the late 20th century, Kennett has left a nightmarish legacy that will be with the Liberals for a long time to come.

There are literally millions of voters now aged 40+, who, when the lights go out or the train is late, will say to each other "blame Kennett!" They are only half-joking, and you can't underestimate how this factors into the voting process - particularly when we have a situation as we do now where the Labor government is loudly proclaiming its populist and democratic socialist credentials. Add this to the 18-40 demographic, who are traditionally more progressive in any case, and you start to see the massive problems the Liberals are having in finding a "base" that won't treat them with outright scorn.

Brumby's aberrant loss in 2010 was driven by a number of factors, but a major one was his inaction on the metropolitan transport networks as the Connex franchise came to its bumpy end. The July 2010 meltdown - probably the worst in recent history, if not ever - was a political nightmare.

I think you can sum it up by saying that Victorian voters are sufficiently conscious of not-so-recent history that they will be more forgiving of the Labor Party for some time to come.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

It’s hard to find out exactly how voting in the Legislative Council (LC) works, however assuming the President has a regular (deliberative) vote and it requires a majority for a bill to pass, it would require 21 votes in the 40-seat LC to pass legislation. It is also assumed that if the vote was tied, ie 20-20, it would fail. Based on today’s ABC predictions, although Labor doesn’t have absolute control of the LC, it appears to have considerably improved its position. It has 18 seats, compared to 14 in the previous LC, thus it only need 3 votes from the 12 Independents, including 1 Green, whereas previously it required 7 votes from the 10 Independents, including 5 Greens.

From the other point of view, the LNP with 16 seats in the previous LC could, with the support of the 5 Greens or 4 other Independents, block legislation. In this LC, the LNP only has 10 seats and requires 10 votes from the 12 Independents, including 1 Green, to block a bill.  

The above may need adjusting according to the final outcome.

EDIT: Adjusted for 1pm Thurs ABC predictions.
  Gavin J Junior Train Controller

Location: Stawell
Being a Ripon voter myself, I found it strange that, despite it always being said that it would be close, that
there was practically no 'publicity' from the 2 major parties.

I do not know what Louise (Liberal) or Sarah (Labor) had plans to do for Stawell or our area, as they didn't
tell us anything.

I received no posted information from either party, I did not even get the usual "Here is a postal
vote...remember me when you vote" application.

I got a generic "Labor will give you free Tafe and solar panels" card, in the letterbox.
I got nothing from the Liberals.

External adverts were just a picture of a face saying "vote for Louise" or "vote for Sarah".

During the last week of the election the newspaper had "You decide" as a headline, with a copy of the ballot
paper, but nothing inside giving me a reason to vote for anyone.

The apathy of our generation rang true for locals and our Council and the Labor candidate.
I could of dreamed up lots of anti-Liberal publicity.....

Sarah at the 'closed' Stawell station at 6am with Mrs Mac sitting outside in the cold, waiting for the bus in 4
degree temperatures in the rain...

Sarah at Ararat with hard hat and vest as the 'Fruity' takes an hour to run around at Pyrenees loop.

Sarah sitting in her car at a level crossing at Amphitheatre as the 'fruity' with its original 60 wagons
plods along at a 10 kph speed restriction on the new line, blocking the highway for 10 minutes !

Then she could have said that Louise did nothing to help our region in her 4 years in office, it has only gotten
worse.

But she didn't !!

Gee if she won by only a few votes and it took 10 days to recount the result, think of how many extra votes she
could have got in Stawell alone, if she promised to just re-man the station.

But she didn't !

Is she going to fight for the pass return to Horsham ???
Who knows, she never said.

Did our Council ask for promises of things to improve the town from its downward turn.  
Not that I read about.

Did the locals write to the media, complain to the Council, write to Louise or Sarah ???

We were told nothing, we were obviously happy and couldn't care less, and what happens, happens !

I thought moving to a country town , the caring factor would be different then the apathy of Melbourne, but it
wasn't, and it is very sad to see....we are slowly dieing, and no one  seems to care !

So SG or BG or DG ???
Pass to Horsham ??
Stawell station ??
Ararat triangle ??

We know nothing !!
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Brumby's aberrant loss in 2010 was driven by a number of factors, but a major one was his inaction on the metropolitan transport networks as the Connex franchise came to its bumpy end. The July 2010 meltdown - probably the worst in recent history, if not ever - was a political nightmare.

I think you can sum it up by saying that Victorian voters are sufficiently conscious of not-so-recent history that they will be more forgiving of the Labor Party for some time to come.
potatoinmymouth
Both Brumby's loss and Kennett's were unexpected. Kennett went in to the 1999 election with a big lead in the polls and was considered a dead cert to win. The swing to Labour was modest in Melbourne, it was in the regions where the government was punished. Indeed Antony Green famously said that when the results started coming in he thought there was something wrong with his computer!

BG
  justarider Chief Train Controller

Location: Stuck on VR and hoping for better.
When the Wimmera Transport Study was done for agroup of Western Councils the proposal was put  :

Option - 1 SG trains from Hamilton & Horsham direct to North Shore and Melbourne via Cressy  (slower, longer travel time) or
Option - 2 SG trains from Horsham and Hamilton via Ararat to Ballarat . Same platform transfer at Ballarat to bg services to Melbourne . (Faster and higher frequency like Weekdays - Ararat 6, Horsham 4, Hamilton 3 return trips .)

The overwhelming preference was for Option - 2 higher frequency, shorter travel time and change at Ballarat .

IIRC the report recommended  5 - 6 x 2 car V/Locity sg sets based at Ballarat could run the above timetable plus 3 return trips to Maryborough on Weekdays .

So no dual gauge necessary between Ballarat and Maryborough, use those $ to standardize Ballarat - Ararat instead - far more sensible .

So far no interest from Labor in implementing a report they part funded along with Wimmera Councils , only a continued dogged determination to have dual gauge between Ballarat and Maryborough which is totally unnecessary and a criminal waste of scarce capital funds .  (Simply because V/Line does nt like standard gauge passenger operations .)
kuldalai
Not surprised that there is no interest. Both options are dumb.

The only glimmer of sense is the acceptance of a train change.

So why not the obvious Option 3.
SG shuttle between Hamilton and Horsham. Change train at Ararat for BG to Ballarat/Melbourne.
1 train set, 2 return per day. CHEAP !

Apart from a re-furb of the Hamilton platform, it could be run tomorrow with existing infrastructure.
When SG V/Lo become available, even better.

cheers
John
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
When the Wimmera Transport Study was done for agroup of Western Councils the proposal was put  :

Option - 1 SG trains from Hamilton & Horsham direct to North Shore and Melbourne via Cressy  (slower, longer travel time) or
Option - 2 SG trains from Horsham and Hamilton via Ararat to Ballarat . Same platform transfer at Ballarat to bg services to Melbourne . (Faster and higher frequency like Weekdays - Ararat 6, Horsham 4, Hamilton 3 return trips .)

The overwhelming preference was for Option - 2 higher frequency, shorter travel time and change at Ballarat .

IIRC the report recommended  5 - 6 x 2 car V/Locity sg sets based at Ballarat could run the above timetable plus 3 return trips to Maryborough on Weekdays .

So no dual gauge necessary between Ballarat and Maryborough, use those $ to standardize Ballarat - Ararat instead - far more sensible .

So far no interest from Labor in implementing a report they part funded along with Wimmera Councils , only a continued dogged determination to have dual gauge between Ballarat and Maryborough which is totally unnecessary and a criminal waste of scarce capital funds .  (Simply because V/Line does nt like standard gauge passenger operations .)
Not surprised that there is no interest. Both options are dumb.

The only glimmer of sense is the acceptance of a train change.

So why not the obvious Option 3.
SG shuttle between Hamilton and Horsham. Change train at Ararat for BG to Ballarat/Melbourne.
1 train set, 2 return per day. CHEAP !

Apart from a re-furb of the Hamilton platform, it could be run tomorrow with existing infrastructure.
When SG V/Lo become available, even better.

cheers
John
justarider
Or Even better just convert the portland line to BG and DG to Hamilton to allow for the return of BG to South Australia.Twisted Evil
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
@GavinJ, id be interested in your thoughts on my question of a couple of days ago - see up thread a little - what would Ripon voters (eg in Ararat and Maryborough mainly) think of disrupted services for conversion of these lines to SG, and having to change trains at Ballarat for Melbourne, but with a potential direct service to Geelong (North Shore) and possibly Horsham/the Wimmera?
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Is changing trains across platforms really such a big deal if the timetable is setup correctly?  I mean this happens between train and bus and bus and train today.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

...........................................................................................................

So why not the obvious Option 3.
SG shuttle between Hamilton and Horsham. Change train at Ararat for BG to Ballarat/Melbourne.
1 train set, 2 return per day. CHEAP !

..................................................................................................................
justarider


Doesn't solve DG Ballarat - Maryborough
  sthyer Deputy Commissioner


So why not the obvious Option 3.
SG shuttle between Hamilton and Horsham. Change train at Ararat for BG to Ballarat/Melbourne.
1 train set, 2 return per day. CHEAP !

Apart from a re-furb of the Hamilton platform, it could be run tomorrow with existing infrastructure.
When SG V/Lo become available, even better.

cheers
John
justarider
An orphaned VL at Ararat becomes a maintenance nightmare. Dead running back to Melbourne or a long drive for fitters, with no back up set within cooee when something goes wrong. Ballarat has a very nice servicing facility. Construct DG into Ballarat East, SG to Maryborough and Ararat and then you can extend services to Horsham, Hamilton or anywhere towards Mildura with relative ease, with backup train sets and maintenance close by.
Go completely wild and build an island platform between the platform roads at Ballarat, then you have walk across platform changes to make the whole thing commuter friendly.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

...........................................................................................................
Go completely wild and build an island platform between the platform roads at Ballarat, then you have walk across platform changes to make the whole thing commuter friendly.
sthyer


Or, if its a heritage problem, at the old North Ballarat.
  justarider Chief Train Controller

Location: Stuck on VR and hoping for better.

So why not the obvious Option 3.
SG shuttle between Hamilton and Horsham. Change train at Ararat for BG to Ballarat/Melbourne.
1 train set, 2 return per day. CHEAP !

Apart from a re-furb of the Hamilton platform, it could be run tomorrow with existing infrastructure.
When SG V/Lo become available, even better.

cheers
John

An orphaned VL at Ararat becomes a maintenance nightmare. Dead running back to Melbourne or a long drive for fitters, with no back up set within cooee when something goes wrong. Ballarat has a very nice servicing facility. Construct DG into Ballarat East, SG to Maryborough and Ararat and then you can extend services to Horsham, Hamilton or anywhere towards Mildura with relative ease, with backup train sets and maintenance close by.
Go completely wild and build an island platform between the platform roads at Ballarat, then you have walk across platform changes to make the whole thing commuter friendly.
sthyer
Exactly how is "An orphaned VL at Ararat" any different than "An orphaned Overland at Ararat".
Both need assist from Melbourne or Ballarat  - and how often has the Overland completely failed anyhow.

IF you want a service to Hamilton/Horsham there is an option suggested, at minimal cost.

OR
Rebuild the Ararat/Ballarat/Maryborough network, just for a few pax that don't really justify their existing service (the Overland), which is likely to cease in 4 weeks.

SG conversion is already a dirty taste in the Minister's mouth. Not going to extend that further for no observable benefit.

Ballarat may be a nice service facility, but it doesn't do SG - That would be a big re-fit.
Ararat is only an hour drive to assist if needs be, like any other place a BG train might stall in the region.

PS: there are scores more SG engines in the region than BG if a spare is needed.

cheers
John
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Brumby's aberrant loss in 2010 was driven by a number of factors, but a major one was his inaction on the metropolitan transport networks as the Connex franchise came to its bumpy end. The July 2010 meltdown - probably the worst in recent history, if not ever - was a political nightmare.

I think you can sum it up by saying that Victorian voters are sufficiently conscious of not-so-recent history that they will be more forgiving of the Labor Party for some time to come.
Both Brumby's loss and Kennett's were unexpected. Kennett went in to the 1999 election with a big lead in the polls and was considered a dead cert to win. The swing to Labour was modest in Melbourne, it was in the regions where the government was punished. Indeed Antony Green famously said that when the results started coming in he thought there was something wrong with his computer!

BG
BrentonGolding

It was 1999...it was a VERY old computer... Wink
  sthyer Deputy Commissioner

Exactly how is "An orphaned VL at Ararat" any different than "An orphaned Overland at Ararat".
Both need assist from Melbourne or Ballarat  - and how often has the Overland completely failed anyhow.

IF you want a service to Hamilton/Horsham there is an option suggested, at minimal cost.

OR
Rebuild the Ararat/Ballarat/Maryborough network, just for a few pax that don't really justify their existing service (the Overland), which is likely to cease in 4 weeks.

SG conversion is already a dirty taste in the Minister's mouth. Not going to extend that further for no observable benefit.

Ballarat may be a nice service facility, but it doesn't do SG - That would be a big re-fit.
Ararat is only an hour drive to assist if needs be, like any other place a BG train might stall in the region.

PS: there are scores more SG engines in the region than BG if a spare is needed.

cheers
John
justarider
An failed Overland can be hauled out by another loco supplied by PN, which pass through Ararat constantly. It's not a unique train in that regard. A VL in need of a tow requires an emergency coupler fitted, or to send out another VL to rescue it.

I don't see my idea coming to fruition, but if the region is going to be serviced by an increasing number of rail services to an increasing number of destinations into the future, then at some point, tacking on bits to service demand is going to cost more in the long term than doing the job properly.

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