Station Rebuilds

 
  ptvcommuter Train Controller

Many of the Stations on our network are in disrepair and need to be rebuilt. The LX will achieve this but they are a road/rail based project that focuses on congestion and safety. If you look at recent rebuilds, Balaclava cost $13.3 Million as did Southland - $13 Million so we can use that as an example for your normal stations. Then looking your major stations with much higher patronage/Interchange Stations, Laverton cost $90 Million to rebuild but that included a new platform so the cost would be lower, Frankston Station cost $63 Million. Now there are other projects that are more important, but there are stations that must be upgraded and rebuilt.

These are examples of stations that could do with a facelift

For you major stations/very high patronage stations - Box Hill, Richmond, Moorabbin, Elsternwick, Burnley, Dandenong and Glen Waverley Stations

For your normal stations -  Yarraman, Heyington, Darling, Patterson, Aircarft, Jacana, North Richmond, Gardenvale and Homesglen are examples, there are many more

Which stations alongside these ones should be rebuilt and upgraded ?

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  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
if it ain't broke don't fix (Prepares for 59,000000000000 disagrees)
  Gauntlet Chief Commissioner

Location:
Have you looked here?
https://Railpage.com.au/f-t11388086-s0.htm
https://Railpage.com.au/f-t11397287.htm
I wonder what they'll do to Werribee.
  Galron Chief Commissioner

Location: Werribee, Vic
Have you looked here?
https://Railpage.com.au/f-t11388086-s0.htm
https://Railpage.com.au/f-t11397287.htm
I wonder what they'll do to Werribee.
Gauntlet
The old station is safe. Heritage listed, and not likely in the way of any works to remove level crossings at Cherry St. From the initial community meetings we are expecting some possible answers to the remainder of the station's fate in February. Road over is expected given the supermarket right next to the line, and the need to provision for double stacked containers on the narrow gauge. whether any rebuilt station was roughly in the present location was a live topic at the Community meeting i attended.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Have you looked here?
https://Railpage.com.au/f-t11388086-s0.htm
https://Railpage.com.au/f-t11397287.htm
I wonder what they'll do to Werribee.
The old station is safe. Heritage listed, and not likely in the way of any works to remove level crossings at Cherry St. From the initial community meetings we are expecting some possible answers to the remainder of the station's fate in February. Road over is expected given the supermarket right next to the line, and the need to provision for double stacked containers on the narrow gauge. whether any rebuilt station was roughly in the present location was a live topic at the Community meeting i attended.
Galron
I can't see the grade of the railway changing due to ARTC strict rules of engagement, In relation to rail shutdowns.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
I don't know what you are worried about, it's all good, as DD says if it ain't broke....... South Kensington for example, a shining example of what people will put up with so that the budget can stay in surplus!

BG
  vlocity27 Junior Train Controller

Location: Pakenham
Nothing wrong with Dandenong??
  Revenue Chief Commissioner

Nothing wrong with Dandenong??
vlocity27
I think there is quite a bit wrong with Dandenong - but I'm not necessarily of the view that you need to tear it down and start again.

It probably needs:
- The island platform to be widened by moving the tracks out on one side to allow for more circulation on the platform and more stairs up to the overpass (seven carriage trains will put more pressure on the station).
- Additional peak only set of gates to allow people to move through the station more cleanly
- A thorough paint and cleaning (seriously - the station is late 90s and has not been cared for properly)

I'm not sure it needs much more than this (some reconfiguration of the bus interchange, more bike parking, improved link to Dandenong Creek trail, etc..).

So yes, I think it needs some love - but hopefully in the millions, not the hundreds of millions.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

While I’m very much in the “if it ain’t broke” camp I think Metro’s engineering standard actually provides a very reasonable long-term vision of what stations should look like.

It’s interesting that fairly recent stations are non-compliant in various ways, but such are the challenges of a system as complex as a railway.

https://documentportal.metrotrains.com.au/engineeringdocs/Standards/L1-CHE-STD-013.pdf
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Nothing wrong with Dandenong??
I think there is quite a bit wrong with Dandenong - but I'm not necessarily of the view that you need to tear it down and start again.

It probably needs:
- The island platform to be widened by moving the tracks out on one side to allow for more circulation on the platform and more stairs up to the overpass (seven carriage trains will put more pressure on the station).
- Additional peak only set of gates to allow people to move through the station more cleanly
- A thorough paint and cleaning (seriously - the station is late 90s and has not been cared for properly)

I'm not sure it needs much more than this (some reconfiguration of the bus interchange, more bike parking, improved link to Dandenong Creek trail, etc..).

So yes, I think it needs some love - but hopefully in the millions, not the hundreds of millions.
Revenue
Dandenong Station should have another Island platform built (before the old goods yard area gets gobbled up by property developers.
  Galron Chief Commissioner

Location: Werribee, Vic
I can't see the grade of the railway changing due to ARTC strict rules of engagement, In relation to rail shutdowns.
Nightfire

This issue with the closure restrictions on the line was noted in the community meeting i was at. There was a lot of idea's thrown about, including the closure of the current cherry street crossing, and moving the crossing point to a new section of road over what is currently a water board canal, on the Hoppers Crossing side of Tarneit Rd, and going for an aviation rd style road over rail.

The petroleum pipeline was considered to be more of a hassle, as they need 2 years notice before doing any works that might need a shutdown of that.

I personally mused that the BG be closed, and the SG temporarily be run on what is currently the Down Broad gauge alignment, down past werribee st, which is supposed to be done at the same time. BG Freight would retain a path via wyndham vale, and the lowering of the track could be done, at both locations, without any more than a couple of days shutdown on the SG. moves that traffic out of the way of any larger redevelopment/rebuild of the werribee station precinct at the same time.

Am a daily user of the service at present, and am very keen to see what they come up with in the new year.
  vlocity27 Junior Train Controller

Location: Pakenham
Nothing wrong with Dandenong??
I think there is quite a bit wrong with Dandenong - but I'm not necessarily of the view that you need to tear it down and start again.

It probably needs:
- The island platform to be widened by moving the tracks out on one side to allow for more circulation on the platform and more stairs up to the overpass (seven carriage trains will put more pressure on the station).
- Additional peak only set of gates to allow people to move through the station more cleanly
- A thorough paint and cleaning (seriously - the station is late 90s and has not been cared for properly)

I'm not sure it needs much more than this (some reconfiguration of the bus interchange, more bike parking, improved link to Dandenong Creek trail, etc..).

So yes, I think it needs some love - but hopefully in the millions, not the hundreds of millions.
Revenue
Thankyou for clarifying, was gonna say definitely doesn't need a rebuild. Do agree with the above, very true.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Assuming they cost $10 million each at the bottom end and no other work is done (the above-ground Heatherdale rebuild was around $7 million back in 2007, and that came with a free shower inside the waiting area every time it rained)...

Mont Albert platform 2+3 is an eyesore, as is the waiting area at Burnley (platform 3+4) and East Camberwell (1+2).
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

a free shower inside the waiting area every time it rained
Heihachi_73

If I had my way, we'd focus a station rebuild program on providing verandah that keep out the damn rain.

Every new build station seems to have those stupid upward sloping roofs that let the whole platform get drenched.

Whereas the downward curling verandahs in the old style (most obviously at Flinders St) just get the platform edge wet, unless it's super windy.
  n459L1150 Train Controller

Location: Echuca
am I the only person who thinks that sunbury needs a MASSIVE rebuild, it was and still is a pretty small station with a very LARGE patronage. some sort of separation between v/line and Metro services would be wonderful for those of us who CHOOSE to live in the country
  jdekorte Deputy Commissioner

Location: Near Caulfield Station
I've always felt that Moorabbin needs an urgent rebuild as it is a grotty mess and pedestrian access is restricted, especially noticeable during bus replacements when people are trying to get up and down that narrow ramp at the same time.  The prefab station buildings were installed after the fire some years ago and are not conducive to a modern station design. My idea would be to:

- cover the entire block with a roof of concrete stretching from the Nepean Highway bridge to South Road.  

- Build station entrances at the Nepean Highway & South Rd as well as keeping the east-west connections at the Nepean Highway end with ramps/stairs/lifts/escalators (whatever) down to platform level.

- Having the station under a wide cover will mean a new bus interchange can be built allowing seamless interchange to platform level.

- (pie in the sky) If the 64 tram is extended south from Hawthorn Rd to Southland then a Station entrance at the Nepean Highway will allow a good interchange.

- A cover over the whole station will allow for commercial or residential development which could complement the civic and commercial buildings that are around the area.  Anything to get rid of that horrible brown brick building on the east side of the station.
  n459L1150 Train Controller

Location: Echuca
I've always felt that Moorabbin needs an urgent rebuild as it is a grotty mess and pedestrian access is restricted, especially noticeable during bus replacements when people are trying to get up and down that narrow ramp at the same time.  The prefab station buildings were installed after the fire some years ago and are not conducive to a modern station design. My idea would be to:

- cover the entire block with a roof of concrete stretching from the Nepean Highway bridge to South Road.  

- Build station entrances at the Nepean Highway & South Rd as well as keeping the east-west connections at the Nepean Highway end with ramps/stairs/lifts/escalators (whatever) down to platform level.

- Having the station under a wide cover will mean a new bus interchange can be built allowing seamless interchange to platform level.

- (pie in the sky) If the 64 tram is extended south from Hawthorn Rd to Southland then a Station entrance at the Nepean Highway will allow a good interchange.

- A cover over the whole station will allow for commercial or residential development which could complement the civic and commercial buildings that are around the area.  Anything to get rid of that horrible brown brick building on the east side of the station.
jdekorte
what about Elsternwick? and Canterbury? or Syndal (not sure about this one) ?
  drunkill Junior Train Controller

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Glenhuntly also has a very narrow ramp for how many passengers use the station. Could have been solved years ago by making the ramp width nearly the same width as the platforms, plenty of room.

Thankfully it will be rebuilt in the next 3 years.
  Revenue Chief Commissioner

One of the interesting things about Melbourne is the transition from a suburban network to a turn up and go metro network. One key question is whether the level of passenger amenity required for a station changes with the level of frequency. If the Dandenong Line has a frequency of every ten minutes off peak and every few minutes during peak then how does this impact on what you need. My personal view is that there is a danger in providing stations that may have been appropriate for twenty or thirty minute off peak frequency in the new environment. Or to put it another way - do you need a waiting room if trains are every few minutes?

It’s a difficult shades of grey question - but I think that there is a danger of spending more money than needed.

There are some waiting rooms on the network that cost millions - are they worth it in the context of moving to a turn up and go network?

My vote is that for parts of the network that will be moving to higher frequencies in the near future that stations should be clean, streamlined, with money spent on improving pedestrian, cycle and bus links rather than anything too over the top.
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
Turn up and go frequencies are certainly happening during the day time - but frequencies are still poor outside of most daylight hours, which are arguably when most people need access to facilities like waiting rooms.

I think at the new Dandenong stations, the waiting room and toilets are actually on the ground outside the paid area, which fits with the space being open to the community - they're not just for passengers, they're for everyone, and you can use them if you're waiting for a train, a bus, or cycling or walking past.

As long as keeping everything to a good level of cleanliness is sustainable, I don't see the problem.
  ptvcommuter Train Controller

One of the interesting things about Melbourne is the transition from a suburban network to a turn up and go metro network. One key question is whether the level of passenger amenity required for a station changes with the level of frequency. If the Dandenong Line has a frequency of every ten minutes off peak and every few minutes during peak then how does this impact on what you need. My personal view is that there is a danger in providing stations that may have been appropriate for twenty or thirty minute off peak frequency in the new environment. Or to put it another way - do you need a waiting room if trains are every few minutes? It’s a difficult shades of grey question - but I think that there is a danger of spending more money than needed. There are some waiting rooms on the network that cost millions - are they worth it in the context of moving to a turn up and go network? My vote is that for parts of the network that will be moving to higher frequencies in the near future that stations should be clean, streamlined, with money spent on improving pedestrian, cycle and bus links rather than anything too over the top.
Revenue


The average cost for rebuilt station would be around 13 Million, Balaclava and Southland are two recent examples. This provides you with waiting rooms, toilets, wider platforms, DDA compliment Ramps and shelter.  Major Stations rebuilds such as Frankston and Westall cost around 50-70 Million. Now spending 500 Million on upgraded Stations, I think is acceptable as there is plenty of work needed to be done to bring our network up to the 21st century. This includes Station upgrades and refurbishment.

Many of the networks stations are in disrepair and need to be rebuilt. We also have to preserve and repair our heritage listed stations on our network as they are starting to fall down.

Stations like Richmond, Glen Waverley, Elsternwick, Moorabbin, Burnley, Dandenong and Box Hill could do with total rebuilds. These major stations and interchanges must be upgraded.

Then there’s other stations that are shocking and have very poor facilities such as North Richmond, Syndal, Boronia, Jacana, Keilor Plains, Ruthven, Wattle Glen, Albion, Yarraman, Huntingdale, Gardenvale, Patterson, Aircraft, Tottenham, Hallam, Flemington Bridge, Homesglen, Sandown Park, Officer, Ringwood East, South Kensington, Hoppers Crossing, Macauley, Canterbury and East Camberwell

Then we also need to protect and refurbish our herritage and community stations because many of these are suffering from erosion and need a little facelift, new ramps, etc. These include Windsor, Prahran, Auburn, Essendon, Middle Brighton, Brighton Beach, Sandringham, Williamstown Beach, Glenferrie, Williamstown, Hawthorn, Malvern, Clifton Hill, Newmarket, Heidelberg, Ascot Vale, Seddon, West Richmond, Toorak, South Yarra, Armadale, Hawksburn, Canterbury, North Williamstown, Newport, Kensington, Royal Park, Camberwell, Caulfield, Flemington Racecourse, Lilydale, Belgrave, Rushall, Jewell, Werribee and Fairfield
  TedHanson Junior Train Controller

In 2010, the Liberals said they would build a Station at Southland for $13 million. Labor also said they would build a station there but at a cost of $45 million. In their last year in government, after three years of inactivity, the LNP funded the station for $20.86 million. In the 2016/17 Budget, Labor increased the budget funding to $25.95 million, the final build cost.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Southland isn't a station rebuild.

It's a new station entirely. So it required aligning the track, a completely new underpass and new signalling added.

Of course it would cost more, obviously.
  SEMartin Chief Train Controller

Location: Canberra ACT
Of course, the other reason that Melbourne's railway stations look so run down and shabby is that the legislative requirements to make the rail network accessible to people with disabilities. The legal requirements and timelines for compliance has meant that successive Victorian governments and rail operators have had very little incentive to upgrade old stations as it would require a full DDA refit. Think of how this might work at heritage (such as the MATH) stations where ramps are too steep, or stations on constrained sites where it would be hard to fit lifts and ramps on site.

However, compare Melbourne's lack of work on stations to the quiet work CityRail/Sydney Trains have been able to achieve over the last 30 years with their Transport Access Program that upgrades the station to DDA compliance along with rebuilds and upgrading to meet modern expectations. Over 1/2 of the Sydney Trains network stations have been through the program and around 70% of rail users in Sydney start and finish their journey at a fully accessible station.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Of course, the other reason that Melbourne's railway stations look so run down and shabby is that the legislative requirements to make the rail network accessible to people with disabilities. The legal requirements and timelines for compliance has meant that successive Victorian governments and rail operators have had very little incentive to upgrade old stations as it would require a full DDA refit. Think of how this might work at heritage (such as the MATH) stations where ramps are too steep, or stations on constrained sites where it would be hard to fit lifts and ramps on site.

However, compare Melbourne's lack of work on stations to the quiet work CityRail/Sydney Trains have been able to achieve over the last 30 years with their Transport Access Program that upgrades the station to DDA compliance along with rebuilds and upgrading to meet modern expectations. Over 1/2 of the Sydney Trains network stations have been through the program and around 70% of rail users in Sydney start and finish their journey at a fully accessible station.
SEMartin
You're missing a big point here - many of Sydney's stations are not or were not accessible at all. It's less of a priority for Melbourne purely because every metropolitan station bar Heyington is more or less accessible, if not technically compliant. Yes, steep ramps are a problem, but compared to a station with no step-free access at all, rebuilding benefits a relatively small proportion of users.

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