NSW Govt announces fast rail corridors

 
  SinickleBird Train Controller

Location: Qantas Club at Mudgee International Airport
The people of Griffith may not be interested in getting off at Redfern, but they might get excited at the prospect of taking the 350km/hr HST that runs Mildura - Griffith - Wagga - Goulburn - Central.

Now that would (a) beat the heck out of Rex to Badgery’s Creek and (b) dampen the sheets of many a gunzel in the middle of the night.

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  Junction box Chief Commissioner

Location: newy
Use the feasibility money to start straightening out the steam era corridor with tunnels, bridges and relief lines and buy some Sprinter sets, NSW will never run 300km/h trains unless the Federal Government gets involved and gets some idea from Korea.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Use the feasibility money to start straightening out the steam era corridor with tunnels, bridges and relief lines and buy some Sprinter sets, NSW will never run 300km/h trains unless the Federal Government gets involved and gets some idea from Korea.
Junction box

Sprinters ... Are you serious, or drunk Question
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

... it's something that needs to be done, but focussed on Medium Speed Rail.
Transtopic

It's definitely something that needs to be done.  I'm just very disappointed that a "process" has been announced that - prima face - has the intention of preventing it from happening.
  M636C Minister for Railways

Use the feasibility money to start straightening out the steam era corridor with tunnels, bridges and relief lines and buy some Sprinter sets, NSW will never run 300km/h trains unless the Federal Government gets involved and gets some idea from Korea.
Junction box
The big problem with "straightening out" the main south is that most of the curves were added around a hundred years ago to reduce the grades for freight trains. Removing the curves steepens the gradient. While this isn't a problem for most passenger trains, the track has to still be available for freight trains.

There are a number of locations where installing a high level bridge would achieve a lot. Between Harden and Demondrille, cutting out the long curved descent on the east side and the steep grade on the west side of Murrimboola Creek. A similar high level bridge across Demondrille Creek a little further west would also be useful.

But none of this could even be planned with 4 million dollars. Not even rail's share of the 4.2 billion promised will do much of what is needed.

Peter
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Oh and the new airport will have a rail connection to kingsford smith and the city circle if for some reason you do need to go in to the cbd.
Only if Labor wins the State election.  They have promised to drop the current government's scheme for a metro link from the Aerotropolis and airport to St Marys and instead extend the SWRL to the airport (including the Aerotropolis), which I think is a more sensible option.  They should also extend it to St Marys as well, so that it is fully integrated with the Sydney Trains' network.

On the matter of the High Speed Rail study, the government would have more credibility if it just focussed on Medium Speed Rail up to 200km/h, with selected track upgrades and deviations on the major Intercity routes that would permit higher average speeds and reduced travel times than is currently the case.
Transtopic

since when does labor build infrastructure? I know they halve build things or cancel them after getting started.

The sydney trains network is finished. It can't cope with the capacity any more.
  viaprojects Junior Train Controller


since when does labor build infrastructure? I know they halve build things or cancel them after getting started. .
simstrain



does any side of government build projects - it's all outsourced for a price and government just does not oversee the spending on the project... some projects need to be stopped due to high quotes not bad planning... or too much planning and no money left to build the project...



The sydney trains network is finished. It can't cope with the capacity any more.
simstrain


not finished ... management and poor planning are the problem... with some key projects killed or converted over to Metro line projects over the years...
  djf01 Chief Commissioner


since when does labor build infrastructure?
simstrain

Since they went into opposition Smile.
  Transtopic Chief Train Controller

Oh and the new airport will have a rail connection to kingsford smith and the city circle if for some reason you do need to go in to the cbd.
Only if Labor wins the State election.  They have promised to drop the current government's scheme for a metro link from the Aerotropolis and airport to St Marys and instead extend the SWRL to the airport (including the Aerotropolis), which I think is a more sensible option.  They should also extend it to St Marys as well, so that it is fully integrated with the Sydney Trains' network.

On the matter of the High Speed Rail study, the government would have more credibility if it just focussed on Medium Speed Rail up to 200km/h, with selected track upgrades and deviations on the major Intercity routes that would permit higher average speeds and reduced travel times than is currently the case.

since when does labor build infrastructure? I know they halve build things or cancel them after getting started.

The sydney trains network is finished. It can't cope with the capacity any more.
simstrain
The point I was making sims, is that you won't be able to catch a train from Badgerys Creek to Sydney Airport and the City Circle for many years to come under current plans, as the Coalition State and Federal governments consider extending the SWRL, to the Aerotropolis and not even the airport, to be a low priority.  They have committed to a metro link from the Aerotropolis and the airport to St Marys.   That's assuming they get re-elected at their respective elections next year.  On the other hand, State Labor has undertaken to extend the SWRL as part of the existing network to the airport as a first priority. Whether they actually proceed with it is another matter.

It's a bit over the top to suggest that the Sydney Trains' network is finished.  It will remain the dominant network for well into the future.  It's struggling to meet capacity because of underinvestment by successive governments over decades.  What it needs is for some of that money being splurged on new metros to be re-directed towards new infrastructure upgrades to the existing network to address its deficiencies.
  Travelling Hooker Station Master

Location: Melbourne
“The people of Griffith may not be interested in getting off at Redfern, but they might get excited at the prospect of taking the 350km/hr HST that runs Mildura - Griffith - Wagga - Goulburn - Central.

Now that would (a) beat the heck out of Rex to Badgery’s Creek and (b) dampen the sheets of many a gunzel in the middle of the night.”  (SinickleBird)
——————————————————-


My 100% nylon sheets don’t absorb liquid so they don’t get damp as such. Just slippery, but I wipe them down in the morning.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

“The people of Griffith may not be interested in getting off at Redfern, but they might get excited at the prospect of taking the 350km/hr HST that runs Mildura - Griffith - Wagga - Goulburn - Central.

Now that would (a) beat the heck out of Rex to Badgery’s Creek and (b) dampen the sheets of many a gunzel in the middle of the night.”  (SinickleBird)
——————————————————-


My 100% nylon sheets don’t absorb liquid so they don’t get damp as such. Just slippery, but I wipe them down in the morning.
Travelling Hooker

yeah because a 350km/h vhst is really going to happen and if you land in central you still need to catch a train back out to liverpool or westmead. Unlike Melbourne, Sydney is not a centralised city. It is a city of multiple cities and any future vhst is never going to get in to Central in any case. It is more then likely to have it's major hub at the western sydney airport.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

It's not over the top. The existing network has too many deficiencies. Money was spent and it couldn't fix it. Labor tried the clearways projects and this was an utter failure. It did nothing to increase capacity. The new metro's are by miles the better option. A modern train system unhinged from the existing network and capable of operating at maximum efficiency without hindrance from other passenger lines, freight, intercity and regional trains.
All these people crowing about the end of the liberals also did so at the last election and look at what happened. The only thing that is an issue is the lateness of the light rail and how the state government supposedly duped acconia. Yet if you look along the length of the line you will see significant progress with lrv's already testing and a lot of the fencing coming down or being minimised.
  Transtopic Chief Train Controller

It's not over the top. The existing network has too many deficiencies. Money was spent and it couldn't fix it. Labor tried the clearways projects and this was an utter failure. It did nothing to increase capacity. The new metro's are by miles the better option. A modern train system unhinged from the existing network and capable of operating at maximum efficiency without hindrance from other passenger lines, freight, intercity and regional trains.
All these people crowing about the end of the liberals also did so at the last election and look at what happened. The only thing that is an issue is the lateness of the light rail and how the state government supposedly duped acconia. Yet if you look along the length of the line you will see significant progress with lrv's already testing and a lot of the fencing coming down or being minimised.
simstrain
I agree with you that the existing network has many deficiencies, but they're not things that can't be fixed if some meaningful investment in infrastructure upgrades were made, such as targeted amplifications, junction remodelling, grade separations and introduction of ATP/ATO.  They would obviously cost a lot of money, but a fraction of the cost of building entire new metro lines.  It's totally unrealistic and wasteful to duplicate sectors of the existing network with metros, when other much more economical solutions are available, if there was the political will to embrace them.  Building new metros isn't the magic bullet to address all of the deficiencies of the existing network.  They should be limited to servicing new inner and middle ring corridors not currently serviced by rail and certainly not involve any further conversions of the existing network.

I disagree that Labor's clearways program was an utter failure.  Their only failing was to not complete the program as initially proposed, especially the Sydenham to Erskineville sextuplication.  It's now time for a Clearways 2.0.  Sorry, getting off topic.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

It's not over the top. The existing network has too many deficiencies.
simstrain

Yes, the network has many deficiencies, more than any one single project can resolve.

But by the same token, this is the low hanging fruit.  Improving the efficiency of the current network is a way more cost effective proposition than simply ignoring it and building something else.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

Yes, the network has many deficiencies, more than any one single project can resolve.

But by the same token, this is the low hanging fruit.  Improving the efficiency of the current network is a way more cost effective proposition than simply ignoring it and building something else.
djf01

I should add, the interurban elements of the network, and the fringes the interurban network doesn't serve properly because it's (way) too slow, is even *lower* hanging fruit.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

It's not over the top. The existing network has too many deficiencies.

Yes, the network has many deficiencies, more than any one single project can resolve.

But by the same token, this is the low hanging fruit.  Improving the efficiency of the current network is a way more cost effective proposition than simply ignoring it and building something else.
djf01
It could also be argued that both are needed to provide capacity into the future, and that doing the new lines first will provide alternative options for when parts of the legacy network are then shut down to do proper deep works rather than just little patch jobs here and there.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

clearways 2 will do nothing. What is the Sydenham to erskineville sextuplification going to do for the main western trunk lines. The western pair on the sydenham to erskineville section are not even half used and has plenty of spare capacity.

The CBD relief is probably the only project that would help. It would allow the removal of all T1 western line trains from the suburbans freeing up extra capacity for the northern line and to move T2 leppington trains on to the suburbans and away from the all stop T2 inner west services on the locals.

The network is already operating at maximum efficiency it can with all the extra services, interlinking and mixed stopping pattern services that operate. Sydney trains already has an ATP system and is in the process of upgrading to an ETCS system with GPS and it still won't make any significant improvement because of how the network is. ATO is the term used for a driverless system by the way Transtopic.

Even if some one does build the cbd relief. Then what? That is it. Network full. At least with metro you get brand spanking new infrastructure built with the 21st century in mind and 100% disability compliance. Safety in the form of platform screen doors and a faster service to boot with higher average speeds that can be achieved. The metro is 8 minutes faster from sydenham to bankstown on the same all stops service.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

It's not over the top. The existing network has too many deficiencies.

Yes, the network has many deficiencies, more than any one single project can resolve.

But by the same token, this is the low hanging fruit.  Improving the efficiency of the current network is a way more cost effective proposition than simply ignoring it and building something else.
It could also be argued that both are needed to provide capacity into the future, and that doing the new lines first will provide alternative options for when parts of the legacy network are then shut down to do proper deep works rather than just little patch jobs here and there.
justapassenger

100% agreed.

The metro west will serve new areas not currently near a rail line and will provide parramatta and westmead residents with an option that doesn't involve a full western line service.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Got a bit off topic but in regards to regional rail where was all this outcry in 1980. Regional people were crying out for new roads back then instead of fixing the rail line. When the grafton and kempsey bus crashes occurred there was a cry to duplicate the pacific highway and bypass town centres which has been done. Same for the Hume and even the great western highway has received upgrades.

Rail is more difficult because passenger rail these days just carries passengers and doesn't do mail and other goods like in years gone by. Compared to the road and plane the train is slow. Not only that but 90% of the passengers it carries are subsidised making it even more of a loss making exercise.

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