Suburban Rail Loop (Election promise)

 
  ptvcommuter Junior Train Controller

Sandringham Electorate now 0.7% Lib, there’s surely political insentive to extend the loop from Cheltenham now hmmm Wink

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  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Sandringham Electorate now 0.7% Lib, there’s surely political insentive to extend the loop from Cheltenham now hmmm Wink
ptvcommuter
Could even go further, say Brighton to ANZAC / Domain via Elwood and Luna Park St Kilda ?
  Adogs Chief Train Controller

If they decided to fill in the gap between Sandringham and Cheltenham, could just drop Sandringham into the tunnel entirely.  The Suburban rail loop could then actually run Flinders St to Werribee, via Sandringham Wink
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
If they decided to fill in the gap between Sandringham and Cheltenham, could just drop Sandringham into the tunnel entirely.  The Suburban rail loop could then actually run Flinders St to Werribee, via Sandringham Wink
Adogs
Ohhh A resurrected Rosstown railway Twisted Evil
  ptvcommuter Junior Train Controller

Here’s an idea for the western portion of the SRL between Sunshine and Tullamarine Airport. We know the airport link will be express via Sunshine but you can’t run SRL and Airport on the same tracks and from what we know, the line between sunshine and airport isn’t being Quadruplicated. Not to mention that there could be future VLine services to Seymour/Shepparton, the leaked transport plan shows this link. The western portion is very underdeveloped.

So my idea of this section would have stations at;

Keilor East - station around Millera Rd to serve the large population
Maribyrnong - station to serve the large population, highpoint and future housing near the old defence site
Braybrook - would serve a large population

Other stations along this route could be at Airport West (to serve DFO/area around Niddrie) and Avondale Heights (area with little PT access). However, you don’t want the SRL to have too many stations making journey times too long. This links with all lines at Sunshine and gives areas such as Keilor East and Maribyrnong much needed train connections.
  LeroyW Locomotive Driver

Location: Awaiting MM2
Here’s an idea for the western portion of the SRL between Sunshine and Tullamarine Airport. We know the airport link will be express via Sunshine but you can’t run SRL and Airport on the same tracks and from what we know, the line between sunshine and airport isn’t being Quadruplicated. Not to mention that there could be future VLine services to Seymour/Shepparton, the leaked transport plan shows this link. The western portion is very underdeveloped.
ptvcommuter
I'm not sure this assertion holds. From what I read of the modelling, the greatest demand for SRL is between the major employment centres in the East and South East; between those centres and the Airport and between the Airport and the West (ie. not so much WestEast, because the existing network caters to that -somewhat- already).

Given the "Western section" of SRL is slated as the last to be built (Cheltenham to Box Hill first, then to the Airport), by the time this is even a problem, would not the SRL trains just continue onto the city as Airport Express trains?

Essentially, I don't think there will be more than 24TPH worth of demand along the Sunshine - Airport corridor for a very long time.  Where those 24 trains come from (Western SRL, City) or where they go after the Airport (Eastern SRL, Seymour, Shepparton) is really beside the point - trying to find an alternative route to add another track pair in that part of the city sounds like a solution in search of a problem.
  ptvcommuter Junior Train Controller

Potential idea

This loop connects our NEICs but fails to connect to two of our larger suburbs and main employment centres. Frankston, Dandenong, Sunshine, Werribee and Box Hill are mentioned as our satellite city equivalent for the future, however the line does not connect to all of them.

After Clayton the loop could travel 10km to Dandenong then run above ground to Frankston using the Eastlink median with park and ride station at Carrum Downs and Keysborough. The costs would be similar to tunneling from Clayton to Southland and (potentially Sandringham).

This would serve thousands of more people and connect more NEICs. Southland while it is retail could be covered by providing a station at Northland.

Otherwise you need to build the Frankston-Dandenong-Ringwood Line Service that could even extend to Box Hill from Ringwood to cater for this missing link and huge employment/housing clusters
  John.Z Chief Train Controller

Potential idea

This loop connects our NEICs but fails to connect to two of our larger suburbs and main employment centres. Frankston, Dandenong, Sunshine, Werribee and Box Hill are mentioned as our satellite city equivalent for the future, however the line does not connect to all of them.

After Clayton the loop could travel 10km to Dandenong then run above ground to Frankston using the Eastlink median with park and ride station at Carrum Downs and Keysborough. The costs would be similar to tunneling from Clayton to Southland and (potentially Sandringham).

This would serve thousands of more people and connect more NEICs. Southland while it is retail could be covered by providing a station at Northland.

Otherwise you need to build the Frankston-Dandenong-Ringwood Line Service that could even extend to Box Hill from Ringwood to cater for this missing link and huge employment/housing clusters
ptvcommuter
Don't make the SRL into more things than it needs to be. As it is, it looks like it's becoming the Airport rail link at the western end, and doing an unnecessary dogleg into Sunshine
  ptvcommuter Junior Train Controller

Don't make the SRL into more things than it needs to be. As it is, it looks like it's becoming the Airport rail link at the western end, and doing an unnecessary dogleg into Sunshine
John.Z


With the Frankston and Dandenong Hubs you could have Stony Point/Mornington/Frankston express trains running Frankston-Dandenong-Clayton via the Quadruplicated tracks which covers this connection.
  John.Z Chief Train Controller

Don't make the SRL into more things than it needs to be. As it is, it looks like it's becoming the Airport rail link at the western end, and doing an unnecessary dogleg into Sunshine


With the Frankston and Dandenong Hubs you could have Stony Point/Mornington/Frankston express trains running Frankston-Dandenong-Clayton via the Quadruplicated tracks which covers this connection.
ptvcommuter
Caulfield to Frankston/Stony Point via Dandenong + the SRL should be treated as two separate projects. If you try to solve too many problems with too few solutions, the compromise becomes too great. How could you possibly fit Freight, VLine, Express Metro and SRL onto one track pair...you can't.
  ptvcommuter Junior Train Controller

@John.Z: I meant then keeping SRL as it is but having the Mornington/Stony Point/Hastings trains run via Frankston-Dandenong and stop at Clayton on their way to southern cross. Then these passengers can connect with the Suburban Rail Loop at Clayton via the quadrupled Caulfield-Dandenong tracks
  justarider Chief Train Controller

Location: Stuck on VR and hoping for better.
@John.Z: I meant then keeping SRL as it is but having the Mornington/Stony Point/Hastings trains run via Frankston-Dandenong and stop at Clayton on their way to southern cross. Then these passengers can connect with the Suburban Rail Loop at Clayton via the quadrupled Caulfield-Dandenong tracks
ptvcommuter
Firstly I thought I was just confused, but the I realized @ptvcommuter, it's not me it's you!

Firstly it it was "after Clayton the loop could travel 10km to Dandenong then run..."

Now you postulate "passengers can connect with Suburban Rail Loop at Clayton...."

Do you have a preference or just a bit of waffle?

Either way, you have already had your say on  Frankston to Ringwood Orbital Line Proposal ? but that didn't fly.

Just stop trying to muck up discussion of SRL and Dandenong Quad "real" future projects with distractions about the EastLink median strip and non-existent major expansion for Stony Point & Mornington.
If you must dream about those other things, please stick to your other link and leave SRL to a realistic discussion.

cheers
John
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Indeed. This thread has fallen victim to "let's draw lines on the map" disease. (Some would say so did the government's proposal!)
  reubstar6 Train Controller

Indeed. This thread has fallen victim to "let's draw lines on the map" disease. (Some would say so did the government's proposal!)
potatoinmymouth
Okay, let's start a new discussion then.

How much will SRL be integrated into the current network. They could go one of two ways I reckon.

Unique:
  • Driverless trains
  • Zero track connections to other lines
  • Different operator
  • Standard gauge
More conventional:
  • HCMT or whatever the latest fleet is
  • Connection to the Werribee (via Metro 2) line
  • Connection to the Airport line
  • Connection to the Frankston line
  • Connection to Sunshine station (enabling many connections)
  • Broad gauge
  • Operated as just another line



Obviously these are the extremities of both arguments. While connections to other lines would be fairly useless in regular service, they would be very useful in the event of disruption, with many potential abilities. Furthermore, with the planned A-League stadium in western Melbourne, direct services from the east via SRL (e.g. Pakenham to stadium via Sunshine, SRL) for derbies would be very useful for fans. Then there is the issue of stabling. I can't see trains being stabled in the east, because where is the space? An above ground stabling centre in the west is more likely in my opinion. It would be interesting to see if the Werribee line would share this stabling centre, with Newport being allocated for Altona/Williamstown services.

Alternatively, the benefits of a stand alone line with extremely frequent services would also be great.


I don't know a lot about how the network is/would be run, but it would be interesting to here your thoughts.
  John E Station Master

Silly question - where are all the SRL trains going to be stabled, especially the Cheltenham to Box Hill section? You couldn't have an underground stabling of all trains. There maybe some space above ground near Heatherton in the south/east. The Western and Northern sections should be much easier because there is more space above ground.
  tayser Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Silly question - where are all the SRL trains going to be stabled, especially the Cheltenham to Box Hill section? You couldn't have an underground stabling of all trains. There maybe some space above ground near Heatherton in the south/east. The Western and Northern sections should be much easier because there is more space above ground.
John E

Not a silly question at all - and my first thoughts went to the Heatherton area.  There's a large green space that looks to be orphaned off from the smallish residential area to the south and the wider industrial / employment areas surround it at the end of Ball Road.

I just looked at the zoning maps and it's under Kingston's PPRZ - Public Park and Recreation Zone.  D'oh.

I personally think it's should be a fully automated / operational independent system so storing trains across the line is not really an issue (out of service hours / in three-track sections near stations), but yes, there'll need to be a maintenance facility - if one is underground, they'll still need to procure the land, so it'll need to be in areas where acquisition won't piss many people off.
  ptvcommuter Junior Train Controller

Not a silly question at all - and my first thoughts went to the Heatherton area. There's a large green space that looks to be orphaned off from the smallish residential area to the south and the wider industrial / employment areas surround it at the end of Ball Road. I just looked at the zoning maps and it's under Kingston's PPRZ - Public Park and Recreation Zone. D'oh. I personally think it's should be a fully automated / operational independent system so storing trains across the line is not really an issue (out of service hours / in three-track sections near stations), but yes, there'll need to be a maintenance facility - if one is underground, they'll still need to procure the land, so it'll need to be in areas where acquisition won't piss many people off.
tayser


Heatherton is fine, land would need to be bought now before it gets given to developers. Talbot Quarry which is contaminated is now being redeveloped.

Automated would be fine but I wouldn’t want it to mean that our current suburban system becomes automatic in the future then, employment is important especially with computerisation replacing human jobs.

If it is human operated I wouldn’t have a problem, more jobs for our state which is always a good thing
  justarider Chief Train Controller

Location: Stuck on VR and hoping for better.
Silly question - where are all the SRL trains going to be stabled, especially the Cheltenham to Box Hill section? You couldn't have an underground stabling of all trains. There maybe some space above ground near Heatherton in the south/east. The Western and Northern sections should be much easier because there is more space above ground.
John E
It's already there. the Westall Rail Maintenance Depot.

2km down the track from Clayton, partly exit tunnel, part on the surface.

cheers
John
  Lockie91 Junior Train Controller

Silly question - where are all the SRL trains going to be stabled, especially the Cheltenham to Box Hill section? You couldn't have an underground stabling of all trains. There maybe some space above ground near Heatherton in the south/east. The Western and Northern sections should be much easier because there is more space above ground.
It's already there. the Westall Rail Maintenance Depot.

2km down the track from Clayton, partly exit tunnel, part on the surface.

cheers
John
justarider
A very good point, nothing has been said about Westall now that PED is coming online. A repurposed facility for the SRL could be the ticket.
  John E Station Master

Silly question - where are all the SRL trains going to be stabled, especially the Cheltenham to Box Hill section? You couldn't have an underground stabling of all trains. There maybe some space above ground near Heatherton in the south/east. The Western and Northern sections should be much easier because there is more space above ground.
It's already there. the Westall Rail Maintenance Depot.

2km down the track from Clayton, partly exit tunnel, part on the surface.

cheers
John
justarider
Interesting - it does seems like an expensive detour to a stabling facility - it's the little details like this that keep the cost ticking up
  justarider Chief Train Controller

Location: Stuck on VR and hoping for better.
Silly question - where are all the SRL trains going to be stabled, especially the Cheltenham to Box Hill section? You couldn't have an underground stabling of all trains. There maybe some space above ground near Heatherton in the south/east. The Western and Northern sections should be much easier because there is more space above ground.
It's already there. the Westall Rail Maintenance Depot.

2km down the track from Clayton, partly exit tunnel, part on the surface.

cheers
John
Interesting - it does seems like an expensive detour to a stabling facility - it's the little details like this that keep the cost ticking up
John E
what is so "expensive". Need to get to the surface and a maintenance depot somewhere.
Any exit ramp is going be be 1km long absolute minimum, whatever site you can imagine.

In the case of Westall, that exit ramp would join the existing Dandy Line just in the area where the shunt lines start for the depot.

cheers
John
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
All SRL discussion belongs in a fantasy thread.
  ptvcommuter Junior Train Controller

@ZH836301

The hub and spoke rail system ain't going to cut it for our city even more. SRL transforms our city, makes orbital trips easier and allows passengers to interchange with other lines without taking a 40 min trip to the city
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

All SRL discussion belongs in a fantasy thread.
ZH836301

I can remember when the original PTV plan came out a few years ago, it was considered fantasy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjEHQPmjwRs

Now let's evaluate what has happened

-> Stage 1 of that plan is completed.

-> Stage 2 is well underway, such as the major projects like the Metro tunnel, Dandenong upgrade and the Melton duplication.

-> Stage 3 & 4 are now being planned, such as the Airport rail link, Geelong electrification, Melton/Wydnham electrification

-> As well as the Doncaster link merged into the SRL proposal + Rowville rail link will be a light rail link

-> And now most people seems to want the see the Metro 2 tunnel underway which a big project from stage 3/4 of the PTV plan.

Wow that plan came out in 2012. 6 years later, most of it seems to be well underway. Anybody call the PTV plan fantasy now? Anyone?

Oh wait, it's not fantasy anymore cause there is a government funding all of the projects. SRL is now getting a business case. In another 6 years time, SRL will be well in construction with actual boring machines. Not that pie in the sky when that happens, don't you think?
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
All SRL discussion belongs in a fantasy thread.
ZH836301

I couldn't disagree more Exclamation

This project will definitely be going ahead...trust me, I work for the government.

Moreover, cite examples of PT promises made by Labor for the 2014 election that WERE NOT kept...

Mike.

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