Fourth train service here to stay, rail upgrades to begin in late 2019

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 17 Jan 2019 14:23
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I don't recall seeing any announcement from the PTV when the new services was added.  Patronage is UP which is excellent news.

Fourth train service here to stay, rail upgrades to begin in late 2019

Sponsored advertisement

  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Of course there was an announcement.

https://www.standard.net.au/story/3873983/extra-train-service-for-warrnambool-line/

Even Victoria’s benighted rail authorities are not mad enough to improve services without telling anyone.
  SinickleBird Chief Train Controller

Location: Qantas Club at Mudgee International Airport
Ah! It’s Warrnambool- I had to read half way through the article to find that out.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Of course there was an announcement.

https://www.standard.net.au/story/3873983/extra-train-service-for-warrnambool-line/

Even Victoria’s benighted rail authorities are not mad enough to improve services without telling anyone.
potatoinmymouth

Thanks for the link.  I thought it odd I must admit.

They would announce a sleeper being replaced.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

I suspect the “rumours” alluded to in bevans’ link about canning the fourth service were related to its replacement by an H set in the last couple of days due to the usual VN being at South Dynon for an aircon fault on the BZN. Numbers elude me.
  Madjikthise Assistant Commissioner

Couldn't you at least add a clue to the location?
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

The extra trip pair Weekdays to Warrnambool is two years old this month. Never mind what PTV claims the facts are patronage both ways is very poor because travel time end to end is woeful with an archaic set back cross at Camperdown on the Up and slow stopping trip to Geelong on the down. Three hour 45 minute trip times are pathetic, B class and wooden cars took 3 hours 20 in the 1980 s. Despite what PTV says times are all wrong. To seriouly attract new patronage needs to be out of Warrnambool by 0820 into Geelong by 1045 and Sxs by 1145. Cross a later  running Down am at New Boorcan Loop. On the down  existing 1713 gets into Wmb far too late.

Like  1555 ex Southern Cross express to Geelong cross Earlier Up PM Wmb at Warrncoort, run 1305 Dn Wmb 40 earlier so PM Up Wmb can run earlier nd cross 1555 Dn at Warrncoort.  0605 Up nd 1913 Dn stay as is. NOT rocket science but VLP nd PTV need to learn and understand the long distance destinations that justify 5 Weekday trips the needs are the all the same .

Up first Up into Sxs by 0930. second by 1130. then late am Up , early rftoon Up nd last Up into Sxs by 2030.
Down am down, then  mid morning down, midday down, down departing Sxs between 1530 nd 1600, then down after 1830.

None of this is rocket science but both PTV and VLP keep trying to re invent the wheel, also to a certain degree the place is still run to suit the operators , and not the long suffering punters

Finally the routes that justify 5 Weekdays are Warrnambool, Albury and Bairnsdale.  Swan Hill 3.as loco hauled.
Shepp 8 - 10 a day as VL on two hour trip time,  Ararat 5 on VL. Echuca 5 on VL, Maryborough 3 on VL.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

@kuldalai, what specifically would running the second morning Up and the afternoon Down an hour earlier achieve? Genuine question, just wondering what patronage would be attracted by such a service. I suspect the 1715 departure of the afternoon Down is intended have it serve double duty by clearing non-suburban passengers immediately after city worker knock-off, which seems to me to be a sensible use of resources.

Worth noting, too, that apart from the afternoon Down, weekday travel time is in the 3h25-3h35 range.

I'd be interested to see a post-New Deal timetable if anyone has a link to one; the closest on Mark Bau's site is 1975 which for obvious reasons is not a good comparison.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
The extra trip pair Weekdays to Warrnambool is two years old this month. Never mind what PTV claims the facts are patronage both ways is very poor because travel time end to end is woeful with an archaic set back cross at Camperdown on the Up and slow stopping trip to Geelong on the down. Three hour 45 minute trip times are pathetic, B class and wooden cars took 3 hours 20 in the 1980 s. Despite what PTV says times are all wrong. To seriouly attract new patronage needs to be out of Warrnambool by 0820 into Geelong by 1045 and Sxs by 1145. Cross a later  running Down am at New Boorcan Loop. On the down  existing 1713 gets into Wmb far too late.

Like  1555 ex Southern Cross express to Geelong cross Earlier Up PM Wmb at Warrncoort, run 1305 Dn Wmb 40 earlier so PM Up Wmb can run earlier nd cross 1555 Dn at Warrncoort.  0605 Up nd 1913 Dn stay as is. NOT rocket science but VLP nd PTV need to learn and understand the long distance destinations that justify 5 Weekday trips the needs are the all the same .

Up first Up into Sxs by 0930. second by 1130. then late am Up , early rftoon Up nd last Up into Sxs by 2030.
Down am down, then  mid morning down, midday down, down departing Sxs between 1530 nd 1600, then down after 1830.

None of this is rocket science but both PTV and VLP keep trying to re invent the wheel, also to a certain degree the place is still run to suit the operators , and not the long suffering punters

Finally the routes that justify 5 Weekdays are Warrnambool, Albury and Bairnsdale.  Swan Hill 3.as loco hauled.
Shepp 8 - 10 a day as VL on two hour trip time,  Ararat 5 on VL. Echuca 5 on VL, Maryborough 3 on VL.
kuldalai

Interesting...have you written to Minister Horne regards this Warrnambool suggestion...or is this just a b1tching exercise...

The Minister's office isn't always in cahoots with the department and can think outside the square, especially a new Minister who may want to show she's on the ball with her brief.

Mike.
  hbedriver Chief Train Controller

I like how Kuldalai’s times make it better for the goods as well. Lots easier to reach Camperdown and Warncoort in good time to cross the pm down passenger trains
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
"want to show she's on the ball with her brief"
Interesting turn of phrase Mikey
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The extra trip pair Weekdays to Warrnambool is two years old this month. Never mind what PTV claims the facts are patronage both ways is very poor because travel time end to end is woeful with an archaic set back cross at Camperdown on the Up and slow stopping trip to Geelong on the down.
kuldalai

Hi thanks for the update but could you please explain the setback at Camperdown?
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia

Interesting...have you written to Minister Horne regards this Warrnambool suggestion...or is this just a b1tching exercise...

The Minister's office isn't always in cahoots with the department and can think outside the square, especially a new Minister who may want to show she's on the ball with her brief.
The Vinelander

Mike let's be fair, it was a good summary of the issues and make me again think what could be possible with rail in this state if it were managed effectively.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Hi thanks for the update but could you please explain the setback at Camperdown?
bevans

It's as grim as it sounds bevans, the Up pulls into the platform road, then sets back and heads into no 2 road from the Down end to wait for the Down to go into the platform road. It's 1950s working at its best!
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Hi thanks for the update but could you please explain the setback at Camperdown?

It's as grim as it sounds bevans, the Up pulls into the platform road, then sets back and heads into no 2 road from the Down end to wait for the Down to go into the platform road. It's 1950s working at its best!
potatoinmymouth

Why are they not completing the 2 road from both ends?  Seriously this is laughable.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Why are they not completing the 2 road from both ends? Seriously this is laughable.
bevans

2 road is accessible from both ends, but there's only one platform (on 1 road). Hence to get both trains to stop AND do a cross, you need to set back at some point.

Same issue as Marshall, which was designed for loco run around and now is useless to cross trains if they need to stop there.

Extra platform isn't really justifiable in this case, though, so new loop is a better solution.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
It's as grim as it sounds bevans, the Up pulls into the platform road, then sets back and heads into no 2 road from the Down end to wait for the Down to go into the platform road. It's 1950s working at its best!
"
I wonder how many times a latecomer for the Up train demands to be allowed to board while the train's stationary in number 2 road.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

I wonder how many times a latecomer for the Up train demands to be allowed to board while the train's stationary in number 2 road.
Valvegear

“Just wait for the Down service sir, we’ll put a gangplank across and you can climb through.”
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
It's as grim as it sounds bevans, the Up pulls into the platform road, then sets back and heads into no 2 road from the Down end to wait for the Down to go into the platform road. It's 1950s working at its best!
I wonder how many times a latecomer for the Up train demands to be allowed to board while the train's stationary in number 2 road.
Valvegear
They can scream and yell as much as they like, they missed their train and ain't getting on !
  woodford Chief Commissioner

Why are they not completing the 2 road from both ends? Seriously this is laughable.

2 road is accessible from both ends, but there's only one platform (on 1 road). Hence to get both trains to stop AND do a cross, you need to set back at some point.

Same issue as Marshall, which was designed for loco run around and now is useless to cross trains if they need to stop there.

Extra platform isn't really justifiable in this case, though, so new loop is a better solution.
potatoinmymouth
When Violet Town was on BG and the timetable was altered to require a cross there, this issue was solved by removing the loop at the station and constucting a new one about 1 kilometre south of the town. THe points were made so they did not need to be changed and a small cabin was installed for the safe working.

woodford
  trainbrain Deputy Commissioner

It's as grim as it sounds bevans, the Up pulls into the platform road, then sets back and heads into no 2 road from the Down end to wait for the Down to go into the platform road. It's 1950s working at its best!
I wonder how many times a latecomer for the Up train demands to be allowed to board while the train's stationary in number 2 road.
Valvegear
tough titties
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line

Interesting...have you written to Minister Horne regards this Warrnambool suggestion...or is this just a b1tching exercise...

The Minister's office isn't always in cahoots with the department and can think outside the square, especially a new Minister who may want to show she's on the ball with her brief.
Mike let's be fair, it was a good summary of the issues and make me again think what could be possible with rail in this state if it were managed effectively.
bevans

I agree entirely and constructive suggestions such as Kuldalai's should not be left here with railfans but should be explored further by the Ministers office and local communities along the line.

Mike.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

A number of issues here to respond to the new trip pair is aimed as 0820 Up into Sxs by 1145 out of Sxs before 1600 back into the Bool around 1915. Heres why kids off to school the trains that get you up to Glg or Melb nd back by early evening not 2115 as now.

Set back cross down goes to plat first sets back towards Colac drives into 2 road from Up end . 0915 Up arrives plat gets new train order departs towards Colac. Down in 2 road  gets fresh train order departs direct towards Wbool from 2 road. Absolutely 1940s archaic safeworking. Down is at Camperdown 20 mins and Up 10 mins.

New crossing loop at Boorcan away from platform will replaces crosses at Camperdown . Lucklily Victrack have a fibre optic cable Waurn Ponds to Wbool and vibes are some basic CTC will replace the archaic Train Orders and remote control both loops at Warncoort and Boorcan

Marshall is used on a daily basis to cross Wmb passes with VL and VL with VL, plus loco hauled runarounds. In am nd pm peaks there are counter peak vl that operate via 2 road at Marshall with pax as through moves so non stop Marshall. No loco hauled run arounds at Sth Geelong these days.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Marshall is used on a daily basis to cross Wmb passes with VL and VL with VL, plus loco hauled runarounds. In am nd pm peaks there are counter peak vl that operate via 2 road at Marshall with pax as through moves so non stop Marshall. No loco hauled run arounds at Sth Geelong these days.
kuldalai
Marshall should of been built as an Island platform station from day one.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Marshall should of been built as an Island platform station from day one.
Nightfire

Hindsight is 20/20. Remember that for the first 18 months of its operation (in the modern era) it was only served by Warrnambool trains, and then the terminating facility was taken advantage of.

It’s yet another example of the effects of the RFR being largely unpredicted - no one foresaw the need for a later additional Geelong suburban station and so terminating facilities at Marshall along with a primitive ability to cross the Warrnambool pass would have seemed more than reasonable. Anything else and they would have been accused of gold plating!

Sponsored advertisement

Subscribers: bevans, Nightfire

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.