Echuca line

 
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
Department of Environment, Land, Water and Planning
Never heard of it. What was it called last month?
Me neither - nor do I want to.
Was it the old DSE - Department of Scorched Earth, perhaps?
If you have a problem or wish to project an image of ACTION or ACTIVITY (habloodyha) you rename the former what ever it was. If that doesn't work you paint its infrastructure/equipment a different colour.
Alternatively, you get Jacinta Allan or Daniel Andrews on TV in a new flak jacket and crash hat to dumbfound us all with their honesty and wisdom and point out what fools we have all been to date.
YM-Mundrabilla
Many years ago, the Dept of Conservation & Natural Resources (CNR) - also known as Dept. of Constant Name Review.

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  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Department of Environment, Land, Water and Planning
Never heard of it. What was it called last month?
Valvegear

It's been DELWP since the election of the Andrews government in 2014.

Mike.
  n459L1150 Train Controller

Location: at sunbury on a V/line service into melbourne, waiting for thousands of impatient people to get on
Would changing the stopping pattern help or are these services already a limited stop to Bendigo meaning the train is already full when leaving SCS?
Or they could do a "1530 Seymour" train, this used to be  a 4 car Spinter, only the first car had a destination of Seymour, the others disconneccting at Wallan and then returning to Southern Cross.

woodford
What the poster is complaining about is weekend services. During the week the afternoon Down Echuca is 6 cars ex Southern Cross which splits at Bendigo, first 3 continue to Echuca and back 3 get left behind to form another service. Pax for Echuca board the front 3 and the connies usually announce multiple times at SC and en route.

They stop all stations (which I think is dumb but that is another story)

Likewise the morning Up service is 3 cars from Echuca to Bendigo. At Bendigo it couples up to another 3VL set already in the platform to form a 6 car set.

On the weekends however it is a 3VL set only on the morning Down which the poster is saying is not enough. (I haven't looked into the other services, sorry)

And yes, they could reserve a carriage in a 3VL set if they really wanted to, the seats are numbered like in an airliner and i have seen them reserved for a DEJWELP party to Bendigo (who then proceeded to sit somewhere else and annoy the whole carriage who had positioned themselves away from the big group).

BG
The "poster" as you have so elegantly put it, is simply stating why can't the people who now have access to a "suburban" service just wait for their train on the suburban platform or just get up a bit earlier like the regional/intercity people have to and catch an electric service instead of getting on an already full train? because people are lazy and metro/vline or whoever owns the station can't control crowds. and yes the "poster" was just referring to a sunday service, but just because it's a sunday doesn't mean the train wouldn't have been full after the train leaves SCS. and I'm sorry but isn't this a post about the Echuca Line? so what does Inglewood have to with anything?

In other ECHUCA-RELATED news, the Riverine Herald (local paper) has announced that works upgrading the line to 130kph running will begin in late 2018 to be completed by 2020. This is fantastic news!!!
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
The "poster" as you have so elegantly put it, is simply stating why can't the people who now have access to a "suburban" service just wait for their train on the suburban platform or just get up a bit earlier like the regional/intercity people have to and catch an electric service instead of getting on an already full train? because people are lazy and metro/vline or whoever owns the station can't control crowds. and yes the "poster" was just referring to a sunday service, but just because it's a sunday doesn't mean the train wouldn't have been full after the train leaves SCS. and I'm sorry but isn't this a post about the Echuca Line? so what does Inglewood have to with anything?

In other ECHUCA-RELATED news, the Riverine Herald (local paper) has announced that works upgrading the line to 130kph running will begin in late 2018 to be completed by 2020. This is fantastic news!!!
n459L1150
Don't get me wrong, I was merely trying to point out to others what the situation midweek vs weekend currently is with Echuca services.

I am fully in agreement with you re Sunbury, I was on an Up evening service on Friday last week which was already standing room only by Clarkie and then another 50 or so got on at SBY heading for the footy at Etihad. Just what you don't want nearing the end of a long train trip, someone's bum in your face for half an hour or so.

BG
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Continuing Echuca-related discussions which somehow ended up on the Geelong-Ballarat-Bendigo thread...

There is good reason to be optimistic the class upgrade will be completed on time as V/Line are not delivering the project. Rail Projects Victoria have done extremely well so far on the Ballarat line works with everything in good shape to be completed there on or before the scheduled time (there is talk of some new trackwork being online by March).

I suspect we will see a good patronage rise quite quickly when the new timetable is released as travel time to Bendigo will be comfortably competitive with the car and to Melbourne will not be far off (could be even less if V/Line take the radical step of, you know, running the damn thing express).
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Continuing Echuca-related discussions which somehow ended up on the Geelong-Ballarat-Bendigo thread...

There is good reason to be optimistic the class upgrade will be completed on time as V/Line are not delivering the project. Rail Projects Victoria have done extremely well so far on the Ballarat line works with everything in good shape to be completed there on or before the scheduled time (there is talk of some new trackwork being online by March).

I suspect we will see a good patronage rise quite quickly when the new timetable is released as travel time to Bendigo will be comfortably competitive with the car and to Melbourne will not be far off (could be even less if V/Line take the radical step of, you know, running the damn thing express).
potatoinmymouth
Yes, it will be a major improvement.  I suspect they might lag a bit on updating the timetable for more services - especially before the planned signal upgrade and also for the fact that staff shortages have been rather chronic of late.  

The other thing they need to ditch is the current 10-15 minute wait at Bendigo as they hitch on a second 3 car set for the run to Melbourne every morning....
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Forgive me but what now is the line speed between Bendigo and Echuca given the level crossings have been upgraded?

I also agree Rail Projects Victoria are doing a much better job than V/Line or Victrack have ever done.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Forgive me but what now is the line speed between Bendigo and Echuca given the level crossings have been upgraded?
x31
80 km/h for passenger trains. 65 km/h for freight.  Mainly because the track is Class 4 (still a fair bit of old 80 lb rail between Epsom and Echuca apparently if I'm not mistaken).
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
Continuing Echuca-related discussions which somehow ended up on the Geelong-Ballarat-Bendigo thread...

There is good reason to be optimistic the class upgrade will be completed on time as V/Line are not delivering the project. Rail Projects Victoria have done extremely well so far on the Ballarat line works with everything in good shape to be completed there on or before the scheduled time (there is talk of some new trackwork being online by March).

I suspect we will see a good patronage rise quite quickly when the new timetable is released as travel time to Bendigo will be comfortably competitive with the car and to Melbourne will not be far off (could be even less if V/Line take the radical step of, you know, running the damn thing express).
Yes, it will be a major improvement.  I suspect they might lag a bit on updating the timetable for more services - especially before the planned signal upgrade and also for the fact that staff shortages have been rather chronic of late.  

The other thing they need to ditch is the current 10-15 minute wait at Bendigo as they hitch on a second 3 car set for the run to Melbourne every morning....
Carnot
Ararat services are given 12 minutes at Ballarat, so it must be a consistent thing. On at least one occasion they failed to join the units, and they 'solved' that problem by running the front one around so it became the back. That used up the whole 12 minutes of dwell time.

Do they still turf everyone off the train at Bendigo, or do Echuca pax get exceptions like at Ballarat?
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Forgive me but what now is the line speed between Bendigo and Echuca given the level crossings have been upgraded?
80 km/h for passenger trains. 65 km/h for freight.  Mainly because the track is Class 4 (still a fair bit of old 80 lb rail between Epsom and Echuca apparently if I'm not mistaken).
Carnot

I thought 100 km/h was to be the outcome of the upgrades for the line.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Forgive me but what now is the line speed between Bendigo and Echuca given the level crossings have been upgraded?
80 km/h for passenger trains. 65 km/h for freight.  Mainly because the track is Class 4 (still a fair bit of old 80 lb rail between Epsom and Echuca apparently if I'm not mistaken).

I thought 100 km/h was to be the outcome of the upgrades for the line.
x31
Even though much of the line can handle that (especially North of Elmore apparently), they decided to just keep it at the glacial 80 km/h for the whole journey...
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Again for the umpteenth  time.

VLP promised Mulder 100kmh DMU  Bendigo - Echuca if Libs gave money to boom barrier protect some 22 odd crossings .

Mulder gave VLP money 22 crossings boom barriered 18 months later than promised .  VLP still leaves VL speed at 80kmh .  JA asks VLP where is the promised 100kmh line speed .

VLP find more lx that need to be protected and demand more funds to fix. At same time VLP then claim "I Know Nussing!!!"  re any 100 kmh line speed !!!  Then demand more $ to upgrade to Class - 2 for 130kmh running . (Whereas VLP promiose at 2010 was for 100kmh VL speed on an Upgraded Class - 3 track) .

$ 90m allocated for now for upgrading to Class - 2 track allowing 130kmh for  DMU .  Supposed to be finished by early 2021 .
Fortunately RPV is doing the work NOT VLP so it might actually get done on time. ($ 90m includesre-signalling Bendigo - Eaglehawk / Epsom to do away with Train Orders.)

Rochester - Echuca was 80lb jointed and that is old rail still lying beside the track now. Re-laid 5 years or so ago that section with used 94lb CWR . So whole line is 94lb CWR .  Track Class Currently 4  65kmh loco hauled and 80 kmh DMU .

All lx are protected now, so just a matter of the track upgrade to Class - 2 to realize 130mh after some 9 years since VLP first promised 100kmh within 2 years  in  2010  !!!!  Another of VLP's famous "Blue Hills" sagas .

Attach 2 VL sets at  Ballarat or Bendigo  12 mins is allowed time but easily done in 8 mins,  detach 3 mins .

Attaches and detaches at Ballarat people stay in train .  At one stage they were ridiculously being turfed out at Bendigo ,  more Nanny State  VLP nonsense !!!  Prpobably just VLP not issuing the same procedure doc altered for Bendigo ?
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

@bevans, why have you shamelessly republished @kuldalai’s post above as unattributed “News”? It was this kind of shonky behaviour that spread the completely false rumour Skyrail was unsuitable for freight trains. I am not suggesting there is anything false in kuldalai’s post above but syndicating entirely untraceable forum posts is highly irresponsible.
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
The news function is definitely the worst part of Railpage.
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
The news function is definitely the worst part of Railpage.
TOQ-1
Some so called articles, which is drawing a long bow, are nothing more, than BullDust / Ridiculous and unfounded, statements, from people with ulterior motives.

kuladalai, certainly does Not fit that category.

BigShunter.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

kuladalai, certainly does Not fit that category.
BigShunter

Nor am I suggesting that he does.

However, to anyone who comes across the Railpage “News” link, there is no way for them to know the source of the item - that is, a forum post by a user called kuldalai.

Even if this was made obvious, it is still highly problematic that this post is being widely redistributed, because anyone outside of the Railpage forum regulars has no way of knowing who kuldalai is or whether his information is reliable. That is a major problem that the internet as a whole is grappling with, and we have actual evidence over many years of discredited hearsay from Railpage posts causing problems in the rail industry. The Skyrail freight train debacle came about because of reckless republishing of demonstrably false information.

At the very least, @bevans, I would politely ask that you make author attribution a compulsory field in the News section, and mark republished forum posts clearly in their title and body.
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

My understanding is that the actual maximum line speed is 115 kph and not 100. So why are the trains still doing 80? The minister should write a stinging letter to V line about this.
  574M White Guru

Location: Shepparton
Something to do with the LX, methinks.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

As the poster of the sorry saga of the long awaited Echuca Line speed increase I think that it is highly irresponsible of Railpage to post any members postings as NEWS ITEMS -  especially without the express permission of the contributor.

This is the second time Railpage has hijacked a thread posting of mine and posted it as a News item without my permission .  NOT  HAPPY  JAN.   And the suggestion that Railpage attribute the author personal details  NO WAY .
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

https://corporate.vline.com.au/CMSModules/SharePoint/CMSPages/GetSharePointFile.ashx?connectionname=VNAP&fileref=%2fNetworkServicesPlan%2fTrain+Operating+Data+-+List+of+all+V-Line+Lines%2f16+-+Bendigo+to+Deniliquin+R02-2018+NA_NSP_02-16.pdf&cacheminutes=5&cachefilesize=1024&hash=2e0535e78cf28e13f82213ce04c554f7665dd4f36faa1f37faffb81304a06d3f
V/Line consider the track Class 4. Whether this is reasonable or not, that’s the reason for the speed limit.
potatoinmymouth
The line is currently definitely Class 4 track allowing 65 kmh loco hauled pass and 80 kmh for DMU .

VR practice as a benchmark is  DMU allowed 15kmh higher than loco hauled speed for same track class .

So Class - 2 115kmh loco hauled  and  130 kmh for DMU subject to adequete lx protection .

Now the lx protection issues are all fixed  Bendigo - Echuca could be bought up to Class - 3 allowing  80 kmh loco hauled and 105 DMU with tie renewal cycle and ballasting and tamping good track geometry .

The planned Class - 2 track now funded will involved further work to deliver a 130 kmh DMU track .

RPV Victoria have an outstanding record on getting stuck into things once the work actually gets started , look at the progress on the near completed Melton duplication .  It just seems there is always a 3 year lead time from funding announced till anything actually gets done on the ground -  Dunolly Junction 2 years plus,  Nth "C"  rationalization finally happening after 5 years etc now.  

With the Echuca line speed 100kmh there have 3 VLP CEO;s over this issue promised by Theos pre-decessor,  unwanted we know nussing re 100kmh under  Theos era, then we move into the big regional upgrade announcement and it re-surfaced as 130kmh allowing an additional return trip to Echuca on Weekdays !!!  Again a porky pie who ever is advising the Minister !!!
There is nothing stopping a Weekday am Down early Up Afternoon Echuca being run on Weekdays now . There is no shortage of available VL trains .
  Daryl Junior Train Controller

Location: Carrum Downs
Mud holes cost money to install.
And we have to import them, local product like in the NE is not good enough.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

One interesting tidbit I came up with in the course of researching for the Deni thread - the current time between Epsom and Echuca (80km) is 67 min, meaning an average speed of 71.6km/h. If the current upgrade works raise the line speed evenly, that could put the average speed of this section in the 110km/h+ range, making it one of the fastest services in the country. Not to be sneezed at.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

One interesting tidbit I came up with in the course of researching for the Deni thread - the current time between Epsom and Echuca (80km) is 67 min, meaning an average speed of 71.6km/h. If the current upgrade works raise the line speed evenly, that could put the average speed of this section in the 110km/h+ range, making it one of the fastest services in the country. Not to be sneezed at.
potatoinmymouth
Probably something just over 50 minutes from Bendigo to Echuca after the upgrade. Faster than a car, much faster than the coach....
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
And the reason why this speed cannot be achieved or taken advantage of now?

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