Aurizon prepares to sell its Intermodal Division

 
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Aurizon and Linfox are supposed to be partners in this enterprise. If they keep this sniping up it won't last long.
Well it will last at least 5 years
emerald-a
Or in court! I suspect all of this is just part of Linfox's strategy to let their customers both existing and perspective know that they have taken over and intend to be different to Aurizon.

I wouldn't even be surprised if they told Aurizon in advance and I don't think they would care either, they are out of the Intermodal business and have the hook and pull contract under contract as part of the sale.

BG

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  Jack Le Lievre Chief Train Controller

Location: Moolap Station, Vic
Aurizon is just the hook and pull operator,  They can be replaced if locos can be sourced.
Of course, but that would take time. Imagine if all services stopped while locos are built overseas, imported and tested!
Graham4405
Watco have some spare locos in W.A., plus they already have locos under or close to be being under construction in the U.S., which are meant to be destined for Qld.
  Mufreight Train Controller

Location: North Ipswich
Aurizon is just the hook and pull operator,  They can be replaced if locos can be sourced.
Of course, but that would take time. Imagine if all services stopped while locos are built overseas, imported and tested!
Watco have some spare locos in W.A., plus they already have locos under or close to be being under construction in the U.S., which are meant to be destined for Qld.
Jack Le Lievre
Short term no doubt PN would probably be happy to provide enough locos for services Brisbane to Cairns, Tas Rail has surplus EE's still waiting for scraping that could operate in Queensland so Aurizon can't get too touchy with Linfox, there are other players in the game who would step in fairly quickly.
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
Aurizon is just the hook and pull operator,  They can be replaced if locos can be sourced.
Of course, but that would take time. Imagine if all services stopped while locos are built overseas, imported and tested!
Watco have some spare locos in W.A., plus they already have locos under or close to be being under construction in the U.S., which are meant to be destined for Qld.
Jack Le Lievre
Yes, but not enough locos for the Qld intermodal task! Those currently under construction are for the grain haulage contract.
  jmt Deputy Commissioner

Watco have some spare locos in W.A., plus they already have locos under or close to be being under construction in the U.S., which are meant to be destined for Qld.
Jack Le Lievre
Watco only own 2 Cape gauge locos in WA, Rebuilt D class, DR1564 and 1655. According to "Australian Locomotion" Chris Walters et al, 111 Tonnes, and with a WA profile unlikely to fit within the Qld loading gauge.

Watco is the contract manager for the CBH fleet, it does not own any of the CBH assets
  M636C Minister for Railways

Watco have some spare locos in W.A., plus they already have locos under or close to be being under construction in the U.S., which are meant to be destined for Qld.
Watco only own 2 Cape gauge locos in WA, Rebuilt D class, DR1564 and 1655. According to "Australian Locomotion" Chris Walters et al, 111 Tonnes, and with a WA profile unlikely to fit within the Qld loading gauge.

Watco is the contract manager for the CBH fleet, it does not own any of the CBH assets
jmt
Mel,

So that assumes that the DBZs were purchased by CBH and not by Watco... (I'm not really sure myself)
It is all a bit theoretical, since DBZs would not be suitable for lighter lines in Queensland either.

I think the DBZs are a bit heavy for the lighter WA grain lines too, but could release the lighter NG CBHs from service on the heavier NG lines.

Peter
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Ive always understood the CBH rolling stock to be owned by CBH and run/managed by Watco.  CBH had to buy them as there were no operators who would take the capital risk to do so.  Which is a little evidence in the column that different gauges increase costs to end users, as the end users through their cooperative had to buy rolling stock as no others would.
  jmt Deputy Commissioner

My understanding from Annual Reports and press releases from CBH in the 2010-13 period, was that CBH wanted total control of their silo to port logistics chain. From memory CBH had placed orders for the rollingstock, prior to calling the EOI for an operator to manage their fleet. Does anyone have evidence that CBH do not own the DBZ?

What does not seem to be entering the equation is Watco's financial status. It is a LLC, the US equivalent to an Australian proprietary (private) company (shares not traded - 50 share total). It does not have the capacity to issue additional shares to raise capital. It runs on borrowed capital. Unlike G&W who are a listed public corporation in the USA, with the ability to raise capital by issuing additional shares.

The assumption is that Watco has "purchased" 8 "new" locomotives for the Queensland grain contract, is possibly misplaced, If one was to drill down, Watco Australia is possibly leasing from Watco USA, who in turn will either be leasing the locos themselves, or have them on the floorplan with the rest of their USA fleet.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Ive always understood the CBH rolling stock to be owned by CBH and run/managed by Watco.  CBH had to buy them as there were no operators who would take the capital risk to do so.  Which is a little evidence in the column that different gauges increase costs to end users, as the end users through their cooperative had to buy rolling stock as no others would.
james.au

The reason CBH bought their own locos and rolling stock has more to do with the fact it gives them freedom to pick and choose (and switch) their hook and pull provider over a period of time. By default this does then dissuade operators from taking the capital risk as the length of contract offered by CBH will never be long enough to justify that risk.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Aurizon is just the hook and pull operator,  They can be replaced if locos can be sourced.
Of course, but that would take time. Imagine if all services stopped while locos are built overseas, imported and tested!
Graham4405
or procured second hand asswell
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Yes but why did they want that control?  Previously the service was provided by ARG, formerly WAGR, and there obviously must have been performance issues at play there.  ARG probably didn't want to invest in new stock, or might have had service/reliability issues etc.  Otherwise there wouldn't have been any change.  Id have to drill into past documents to try and find out (probably these boards too lol).  So CBH decided to move away from ARG.  Id be betting that in their options evaluations at the time, lack of other fleets would have driven them to choose to get their own to give them certainty, as back then, PN et al were still driving home hard take or pay contracts to shift the risk squarely on the grain handler.  Its a bit circumstantial the evidence but not invalid.
  Mufreight Train Controller

Location: North Ipswich
Yes but why did they want that control?  Previously the service was provided by ARG, formerly WAGR, and there obviously must have been performance issues at play there.  ARG probably didn't want to invest in new stock, or might have had service/reliability issues etc.  Otherwise there wouldn't have been any change.  Id have to drill into past documents to try and find out (probably these boards too lol).  So CBH decided to move away from ARG.  Id be betting that in their options evaluations at the time, lack of other fleets would have driven them to choose to get their own to give them certainty, as back then, PN et al were still driving home hard take or pay contracts to shift the risk squarely on the grain handler.  Its a bit circumstantial the evidence but not invalid.
james.au
CBH and DBZ locos are a bit big to operate in Queensland.
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
Aurizon is just the hook and pull operator,  They can be replaced if locos can be sourced.
Of course, but that would take time. Imagine if all services stopped while locos are built overseas, imported and tested!
or procured second hand asswell
Dangersdan707
From who? If any operator is trying to push Aurizon out, Aurizon isn't likely to sell locos to them. PN wouldn't have the spare locos.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Aurizon is just the hook and pull operator,  They can be replaced if locos can be sourced.
Of course, but that would take time. Imagine if all services stopped while locos are built overseas, imported and tested!
or procured second hand asswell
From who? If any operator is trying to push Aurizon out, Aurizon isn't likely to sell locos to them. PN wouldn't have the spare locos.
Graham4405
Don't Need to buy them from Aurizon or PN (they have plenty of spare locos S, remaining A class and 48 class). There are other companies willing to sell locos GWA,CFCLA,SSR (doubtful) ect.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
What about the guage DangersDan?
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
Aurizon is just the hook and pull operator,  They can be replaced if locos can be sourced.
Of course, but that would take time. Imagine if all services stopped while locos are built overseas, imported and tested!
or procured second hand asswell
From who? If any operator is trying to push Aurizon out, Aurizon isn't likely to sell locos to them. PN wouldn't have the spare locos.
Don't Need to buy them from Aurizon or PN (they have plenty of spare locos S, remaining A class and 48 class). There are other companies willing to sell locos GWA,CFCLA,SSR (doubtful) ect.
Dangersdan707
None of which can run in Qld... Rolling Eyes
  br30453 Chief Train Controller

Aurizon is just the hook and pull operator,  They can be replaced if locos can be sourced.
Of course, but that would take time. Imagine if all services stopped while locos are built overseas, imported and tested!
or procured second hand asswell
From who? If any operator is trying to push Aurizon out, Aurizon isn't likely to sell locos to them. PN wouldn't have the spare locos.
Don't Need to buy them from Aurizon or PN (they have plenty of spare locos S, remaining A class and 48 class). There are other companies willing to sell locos GWA,CFCLA,SSR (doubtful) ect.
None of which can run in Qld... Rolling Eyes
Graham4405
And neither can any 1067mm gauge locos ex Western Australia or South Australi, as they exceed the dimensions allowable for operation on the QR 1067mm gauge system, particularly below platform level.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Aurizon is just the hook and pull operator,  They can be replaced if locos can be sourced.
Of course, but that would take time. Imagine if all services stopped while locos are built overseas, imported and tested!
or procured second hand asswell
From who? If any operator is trying to push Aurizon out, Aurizon isn't likely to sell locos to them. PN wouldn't have the spare locos.
Don't Need to buy them from Aurizon or PN (they have plenty of spare locos S, remaining A class and 48 class). There are other companies willing to sell locos GWA,CFCLA,SSR (doubtful) ect.
None of which can run in Qld... Rolling Eyes
Graham4405
I was referring to SG operations
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
You do realise the Qld North Coast Line is narrower still than your hated standard gauge and by an even greater factor?  So you must no doubt hate it more than SG?

Edit just did the calcs.  SG is 90% of the width of BG.  NG is 75% of the width of SG.  NG is 67% of the width of BG....

Loading gauge is a whole other story though and far more complicated.
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
I was referring to SG operations
Dangersdan707
Why? Nobody else was!
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
I was referring to SG operations
Why? Nobody else was!
Graham4405
I did a an oppsie and I'm very sorry for moving this thread unintentionally off topic
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

Linfox signage has gone up on the ex-Aurizon intermodal terminals at Merinda (north of Bowen) and Innisfail.

PN has dominated loadings out of Merinda for several years with its own terminal, however traffic through the Aurizon terminal was increasing last year and still looks just as busy with the Linfox takeover. Ninety percent of Australia's winter tomato crops originate in the Bowen region, and it is one of the largest horticultural cropping areas in the country.
  8077 Chief Train Controller

Location: Crossing the Rubicon
The ACCC has lost its fight on the sale to PN as mentioned in the press.

How will Linfox now be involved on the terminal?
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
This is some decent commentary on the issue as it stands right now

https://www.afr.com/business/infrastructure/qube-rules-out-an-intermodal-future-after-accc-defeat-20190516-p51o4j
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

The ACCC has lost its fight on the sale to PN as mentioned in the press.

How will Linfox now be involved on the terminal?
8077

Acacia Ridge remains a multi-user terminal, Linfox will now be paying to PN to use the yard and complex rather than Aurizon and Qube (the current terminal manager). It's reasonable to assume that if the multi-user yard becomes too congested or expensive to use, then Linfox will probably pursue the construction of its own yard to the north or south of Brisbane (Aurizon had previously looked at both options). PN currently only uses the yard for standard gauge operations, and has kept its narrow gauge operations separate at Moolabin, making Linfox the primary user of the narrow gauge facilities at Acacia Ridge.

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