Inland railway Melbourne - Brisbane

 
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Sounds like there is some merit to the decision but I would like to think the change will bring more business to rail and not take business from NG which will not assist the market?

NG doesnt have a lot of the market now so there is not much to take.  SG in the region, but more accurately decent axle loads, will be the driver of freight to rail.
james.au
Once the Inland is built, the NG is basically redundant and ultimately close either straight away or within a few years. I'm sure once the Inland construction is well under way the customers on NG will be looking to switch their business over ASAP and put wheels in motion to do so.

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  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Sounds like there is some merit to the decision but I would like to think the change will bring more business to rail and not take business from NG which will not assist the market?

NG doesnt have a lot of the market now so there is not much to take.  SG in the region, but more accurately decent axle loads, will be the driver of freight to rail.
Once the Inland is built, the NG is basically redundant and ultimately close either straight away or within a few years. I'm sure once the Inland construction is well under way the customers on NG will be looking to switch their business over ASAP and put wheels in motion to do so.
RTT_Rules

Graincorp has a history of contributing to rail branchline reopening in Victoria and i would fully expect them to do so in Qld too.  And if I was a coal operator, id be looking at what it would take to get better TAL and lower operating costs for the mines too.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Sounds like there is some merit to the decision but I would like to think the change will bring more business to rail and not take business from NG which will not assist the market?

NG doesnt have a lot of the market now so there is not much to take.  SG in the region, but more accurately decent axle loads, will be the driver of freight to rail.
Once the Inland is built, the NG is basically redundant and ultimately close either straight away or within a few years. I'm sure once the Inland construction is well under way the customers on NG will be looking to switch their business over ASAP and put wheels in motion to do so.

Graincorp has a history of contributing to rail branchline reopening in Victoria and i would fully expect them to do so in Qld too.  And if I was a coal operator, id be looking at what it would take to get better TAL and lower operating costs for the mines too.
james.au
Prediction
2025 is the year the Inland is forecast to open

Prediction 1) 2025 is the last year the Qld SW NG line has revenue freight traffic and closed and removed shortly after

Prediction 2) 2030 is the last year (if not before) the Qld Western NG line has revenue freight traffic and closed and removed shortly after apart from route used by Inland

After these dates, Rosewood station will be the western terminus for the NG network
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
What about the coal traffic from Ackland?
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Federal Government Budget announcement:

The Australian Government has committed $9.3 billion in equity and grant funding for the Australian Rail Track Corporation (ARTC) to deliver the Melbourne to Brisbane Inland Rail project. Spanning three states and 1,700 kilometres, Inland Rail will be a nationally significant civil engineering project supporting around 16,000 direct and indirect jobs during construction.
Somebody

Only $32m out to 2019.  Not much at all really.
  neillfarmer Chief Train Controller

It will be interesting to see which comes first, the National Debt repaid or the Inland rail built.
Neill Farmer
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
It will be interesting to see which comes first, the National Debt repaid or the Inland rail built.
neillfarmer
My money's on Armageddon beating both.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
An item in "Railway Digest" says that the 3 crossing loops in the Parkes-Narromine section will be 2200m long even though the trains will be only 1800m long, to match train lengths between Parkes and Perth.

The extra 400m is explained by having an extra 400m to allow "simultaneous arrivals", the extra 400m also providing a safety margin to help prevent a repetition of the Hines Hill head-on collision.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

An item in "Railway Digest" says that the 3 crossing loops in the Parkes-Narromine section will be 2200m long even though the trains will be only 1800m long, to match train lengths between Parkes and Perth.

The extra 400m is explained by having an extra 400m to allow "simultaneous arrivals", the extra 400m also providing a safety margin to help prevent a repetition of the Hines Hill head-on collision.
awsgc24
Only 1800m long? No heavy weight ties or 65kg/m rail. Another short sighted done on the cheap project. Why not full USA outline rolling stock and convert the Parkes/Perth section to the same standard. Now that would be a worth while upgrade.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
An item in "Railway Digest" says that the 3 crossing loops in the Parkes-Narromine section will be 2200m long even though the trains will be only 1800m long, to match train lengths between Parkes and Perth.

The extra 400m is explained by having an extra 400m to allow "simultaneous arrivals", the extra 400m also providing a safety margin to help prevent a repetition of the Hines Hill head-on collision.
Only 1800m long? No heavy weight ties or 65kg/m rail. Another short sighted done on the cheap project. Why not full USA outline rolling stock and convert the Parkes/Perth section to the same standard. Now that would be a worth while upgrade.
nswtrains
Whats the point if the rest of the network wont be able to use those trains?  What is rest of network?  I'm thinking of things like East West here which is in no need of any major upgrade as it has 80-90% market share....
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Trapped in a meeting with Rhonda and Karsten
Some interesting news this morning:
An elected Labor government would launch an inquiry into the federal government's $10 billion Melbourne to Brisbane inland rail line.

Labor's infrastructure spokesman Anthony Albanese says the opposition supports the project but wants to put the blowtorch on the route selection process and financing arrangements.

"This is appalling. The government has botched this from day one," he told 2GB on Tuesday.

"It is very clear the government has failed to consult properly. It's very clear that there are real issues with the route going through prime agricultural land, that the locals aren't being listened to."

Farmers across in NSW and Queensland are among those who have raised concerns about the lack of transparency associated with picking the route.

...

A Shorten Labor government's inquiry would be led by an "eminent Australian" who would get access to Infrastructure Australia and other departments, including Finance and Treasury.
Australian Associated Press


This largely relates to the 'Border to Gowrie' ("B2G" in ARTC parlance) route selection in Queensland. The Guardian published a story 5 months ago about how the Wagner Family lobbied ARTC and Infrastructure Minister Darren Chester to run the line past the Brisbane West/Wellcamp Airport near Toowoomba. Freight rail doesn't have much to do with an airport that has one international flight a week (Hong Kong, freight only), but it ties in nicely with the industrial estate that the Wagners have established next door as part of the development. Don't get me wrong, it absolutely makes sense to run the line past Wellcamp but it's pretty clear who's going to benefit from it doing so.
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
No wonder nothing gets done here.
Let's have ANOTHER enquiry into the inland rail route.   The cost of all the enquiries will outdo the actual cost of the building of the line - if they do build it as it will be no longer viable.
Building a rail line past a potential customer, why would you do that?
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Higher axle load perway and American style loading gauge is the be all and end all . I don't believe there is any other way to effectively compete with road . It is expensive but its performance makes what we currently have look really pathetic .

Hmm , 2200m to allow for simultaneous arrivals . That leaves 200m for each which isn't much for 1800m trains .
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Higher axle load perway and American style loading gauge is the be all and end all . I don't believe there is any other way to effectively compete with road . It is expensive but its performance makes what we currently have look really pathetic .

Hmm , 2200m to allow for simultaneous arrivals . That leaves 200m for each which isn't much for 1800m trains .
BDA
Lots of overcapitalisation there if you go down that path.
  bevans Site Admin
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Higher axle load perway and American style loading gauge is the be all and end all . I don't believe there is any other way to effectively compete with road . It is expensive but its performance makes what we currently have look really pathetic .

Hmm , 2200m to allow for simultaneous arrivals . That leaves 200m for each which isn't much for 1800m trains .
Lots of overcapitalisation there if you go down that path.
james.au
Ask any Australian operator that went down that path what they think .
The road freight industry has gone from strength to strength because road infrastructure is VERY good by comparison .
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Higher axle load perway and American style loading gauge is the be all and end all . I don't believe there is any other way to effectively compete with road . It is expensive but its performance makes what we currently have look really pathetic .

Hmm , 2200m to allow for simultaneous arrivals . That leaves 200m for each which isn't much for 1800m trains .
Lots of overcapitalisation there if you go down that path.
Ask any Australian operator that went down that path what they think .
The road freight industry has gone from strength to strength because road infrastructure is VERY good by comparison .
BDA
The road industry we all know is subsidised and there are reports out there showing how road overcapitalisation has been done to the detriment of treasury balances.

The Fed government is coming to a point where the debt is going to have to be addressed.  Debt now is more than half a trillion dollars, which is relatively low in GDP terms (approx 40%) compared to global peers but is growing.  Now, future growth might increase revenues and reverse this trend (as governments are always budgeting for) but there needs to be cost management too.

What does this mean for roads?  They are going to have to be restructured so they don't contribute to the debt problem. Faced with increasing fuel efficiency, EVs and the rest, road user charging is going to come in at some stage in the 10 year period to change roads from a cost centre to something that pays for itself (like we have seen PAYG systems work elsewhere).  So IMV we are going to see that trucking firms will have to pay for their use of roads in a far more linked way to the damage (aka consumption) they do to the roads.  And with that will need to be more transparency of road costs so that the amounts paid are not over charged, which will lead to reductions in undercharging).

If roads are overcapitalised, then the recovery cost will be too high and trucks will go another route.  So there will be some pressures on road agencies to spend wisely, lest they be left with a loss making road....
  Z VAN Locomotive Fireman

During one of the early Talk Fest's it was suggested building Inland Rail to Plilbra/American Standard.
The usual laughter with the Bean Counters cheering to much money, to much money.
Well they were sort of right but if you are going to really Challenge the Road Industry building more of what you run is not going to be a real game changer.
I believe the new section curves are to be built with a minimum radius of 2000 m. Either way the line speed is to be maximum 115KPH the same line speed as the Kyogle extension opened in 1930 or there about's.
When the line opens in 2025 some 95 years after Kyogle we have lept forward exactly well regards line speed "Nothing", "Zero".
I could be described as Truckophobic as I am biased toward Rail. To make another sweeping statement our road construction and what people expect has progressed markedly since 1930 yet Rail regards line speed has not.
I do not know who is the Driver of rail projects behind the scenes as we always get just enough to say "well that is the best the economy can afford" and there is no need to gold plate it.
You never seem to hear that with road upgrades with the General Public cheering more roads, more roads.
On a positive note I look forward to the opening of the Inland Rail Line.
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
As you very well know I was referring to interstate road corridors as these are the ones rail fails to compete with .
To do well you need to have high load carrying capacity because its those tonnes of customers freight that pays the bills .
You think 20 or 21 TAL is adequate in this day and age ? Garbage .
Think about running 40 odd TAL at 80 km/h in 45+ degree heat because its being done 24/7/365 here in Aus .
Take it to the bank , American style power defecates all over anything you will see outside the Hunter .
You want economically desirable productivity , build it properly .
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Are we to assume the inland rail project is now safe as tghe ALP were planning on a review of the route?
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

Are we to assume the inland rail project is now safe as tghe ALP were planning on a review of the route?
bevans

That would be a reasonable assumption - with the previous government retaining power, its policies, promises and designs for the line aren't likely to change, as it passes almost entirely through National or Liberal held seats.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Are we to assume the inland rail project is now safe as tghe ALP were planning on a review of the route?

That would be a reasonable assumption - with the previous government retaining power, its policies, promises and designs for the line aren't likely to change, as it passes almost entirely through National or Liberal held seats.
Sulla1
Would the ALP have actually changed it anyway? They just said they would review.

I could be wrong and probably am, but the corridor isn't a political decision, its economic.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Are we to assume the inland rail project is now safe as tghe ALP were planning on a review of the route?

That would be a reasonable assumption - with the previous government retaining power, its policies, promises and designs for the line aren't likely to change, as it passes almost entirely through National or Liberal held seats.
Would the ALP have actually changed it anyway? They just said they would review.
RTT_Rules
They probably would have changed it to some degree, to put their own stamp on it. That's what incoming governments do, even if they would have picked the original option had they gotten there first.

I could be wrong and probably am, but the corridor isn't a political decision, its economic.
RTT_Rules
I'd say you are wrong. The inland railway is a strong contender for the most political rail project ever in this nation.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Are we to assume the inland rail project is now safe as tghe ALP were planning on a review of the route?

That would be a reasonable assumption - with the previous government retaining power, its policies, promises and designs for the line aren't likely to change, as it passes almost entirely through National or Liberal held seats.
Would the ALP have actually changed it anyway? They just said they would review.
They probably would have changed it to some degree, to put their own stamp on it. That's what incoming governments do, even if they would have picked the original option had they gotten there first.

I could be wrong and probably am, but the corridor isn't a political decision, its economic.
I'd say you are wrong. The inland railway is a strong contender for the most political rail project ever in this nation.
justapassenger
Ok fair enough, reason I said that before as during the tenure of ALP leadership between 2007 and 2013, I didn't feel there was much of a change in direction, of the project, but then again they were not at the stage of drawing detailed lines on a map.
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

ARTC Fly-through clips of the alignment and infrastructure between Gowrie (west of Toowoomba) to the ARTC's North Coast Line - well worth viewing...




https://youtu.be/h6MlZJKkCak


https://youtu.be/qtPOMZ1OtIM


https://youtu.be/Sv2cLgevpog

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