Possible New Timetable in April

 
  Lockie91 Junior Train Controller

The rumour mill has been running recently with a few people inside metro mentioning that a new timetable was on the cards early this year, with a possible start date on April 1. I have also noticed a few local MPs drop media releases about new bus services with an April start date.

What I have herd is that this will spell the death of 40 minute frequency on most of the Network.

Ringwood Group to get 10 minute interpeak frequency on weekdays.

Craigieburn to get 10 minute interpeak frequency on weekdays.

Sunbury to get a 20 minute interpeak frequency and Watergardens 10, 7 days a week.

Frankston to be pulled from the Caulfield Loop and run direct to Werribee 7 days a week.

If the chattering is founded then it looks like the re write of the master timetable that was meant to happen years ago but put aside as it was to politically inconvenient. The sand belt seats were unhappy that they were being pulled out of the loop for the next few years until MM1.

Has any one else herd any thing on the grape vine?

Is their other timetable changes that people are expecting or would like to see?

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  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
On time running and lack of "train faults"," track faults", "signal failures" et al would interest me much more than a new timetable.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

That’s great news if true.

@Valvegear, while I think we’d all like to see a more reliable system, that’s no reason to knock service increases using existing infrastructure.

I did say back in the election thread at some point that the best quick-fix thing a landslide Labor government could do for PT would be to pull the Frankston line out of the loop. I really hope it happens.
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
What I have herd is that this will spell the death of 40 minute frequency on most of the Network.

Ringwood Group to get 10 minute interpeak frequency on weekdays.

Craigieburn to get 10 minute interpeak frequency on weekdays.

Sunbury to get a 20 minute interpeak frequency and Watergardens 10, 7 days a week.

Frankston to be pulled from the Caulfield Loop and run direct to Werribee 7 days a week.
Lockie91
No more 40 minute frequencies - Good

Ringwood group - nothing dramatic there, but good

Craigieburn - a shame it is only on weekdays, but I suppose this allows for extra driver training, scaling up all at once might be too much

Sunbury - excellent, Watergardens (or at least Sunshine) has needed a 10 minute frequency for years.

Frankston - it should help with reliability. Hopefully there is little to no dwell time at Flinders St (not sure how much there is now) so services become true through services. If they have access to Flinders St and Southern Cross with no real delays, there shouldn't be a problem for Frankston Line passengers, especially if the other lines are just as frequent to change to.

(I think it would be great if there were all day City Circle services to get the service from Platform 1 at Flinders St down to every 5 minutes, but that's probably just wishful thinking).
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Any news on the Hurstbridge Line?  This was made a real mess with the last timetable change taking up to 20 minutes for a train between Clifton Hill and Heidelberg in the peak.  When it does arrive you can't even squash on.
  Lockie91 Junior Train Controller

On time running and lack of "train faults"," track faults", "signal failures" et al would interest me much more than a new timetable.
Valvegear
I agree, but the data suggests this has decreased significantly in the last few years. With a lot more money for maintenance and not just the big ticket items. I was told also that they were waiting for the fleet size to increase. They didn't want to repeat connex flogging the entire fleet, when they were running 99% of the fleet. I think they run 80% of fleet in service, 10% maintenance and 10% 'active spare'. Successive governments have spent billions on new shinny infrastructure and nothing on maintenance and renewals, with Metro being the scape goat. This has run quite thin with the public and the government no longer has anyone too hide behind.

TOQ-1
No more 40 minute frequencies - Good
Ringwood group - nothing dramatic there, but good
Craigieburn - a shame it is only on weekdays, but I suppose this allows for extra driver training, scaling up all at once might be too much
Sunbury - excellent, Watergardens (or at least Sunshine) has needed a 10 minute frequency for years.
Frankston - it should help with reliability. Hopefully there is little to no dwell time at Flinders St (not sure how much there is now) so services become true through services. If they have access to Flinders St and Southern Cross with no real delays, there shouldn't be a problem for Frankston Line passengers, especially if the other lines are just as frequent to change to.
(I think it would be great if there were all day City Circle services to get the service from Platform 1 at Flinders St down to every 5 minutes, but that's probably just wishful thinking).



Sorry TOQ-1, that was a typo on my end. All of the northern group 'will' be getting a 10 minute inter peak. I. not sure if this is to just Broadmeadows and 20 miniute to Craigieburn.

Dwell times at Flinders Street have been a major thorn in Metro's side for many years now. When the drivers EBA came up they wanted to split drivers into the corresponding network groups (Northern, Cross City, Dandenong, Ringwood, Cliftion Hill and City Loop) and move driver change over away from FFS. The idea was to train drivers on the network group they would be driving on not the entire network. Just having a core group that would cover the entire network. The RTBU put a stop to it saying it was "unsafe" that drivers would only know some and not all of the network. The restrictions on drivers running the same line more the once in a shift as well as the change over at FFS remained as well.

The EBA will be once again up for renewal before 2022 and I doubt the government will let the RTBU stand in the way of it shinny transport agenda this time around.

bevans
Any news on the Hurstbridge Line?  This was made a real mess with the last timetable change taking up to 20 minutes for a train between Clifton Hill and Heidelberg in the peak.  When it does arrive you can't even squash on.

Bevans, I haven't herd anything on these lines, but I would expect that they would also get a 10 minute inter peak frequency to possibly Epping and Greensbrough. This is possible with the current Clifton Hill layout. The timetable for the group was meant to be re written after the HLP stage 1 was complete. It wasn't and they government opted just to shove additional services in without fixing the issues at Clifton Hill. Fingers crossed they will smooth it out now they don't have to try and timetable Mernda services with the conflict at Clifton Hill with the conflict at Rossana.
  ptvcommuter Train Controller

Still no upgrade to the Sandringham Line, Peak Hour trains overcrowded and not enough services in peak hour. No upgrade to the Upfield Line, just why can’t they terminate at Southern Cross Platform 8 and at least run every 10 Minutes from Coburg.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Still no upgrade to the Sandringham Line, Peak Hour trains overcrowded and not enough services in peak hour. No upgrade to the Upfield Line, just why can’t they terminate at Southern Cross Platform 8 and at least run every 10 Minutes from Coburg.
ptvcommuter
As has been discussed elsewhere one of the major restrictions on the Upfield like are the myriad of closely spaced LXs through Brunswick and surrounds. Running short services from Coburg you would be running through exactly that area. With 10 min frequencies many of those roads would be gridlocked for hours on end.

And P8 is used by V/Line services especially during peak times. V/Line already has enough problems with congestion at Southern Cross which cause many of the delays in Up V/Line services without restricting platform access even more.

BG
  ptvcommuter Train Controller

Fair enough, I’ve heard it is possible to run a 15 Minute service on the Upfield Line with a quick changeover at Upfield.
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
Re the Craigieburn Line, would increasing to 10 minute frequencies cause any issues with Showgrounds/Racecourse trains?
Even if trains are timetabled to end service at Broady, I'd imagine there's a few non-PSR runs to Craigieburn to get them into the stabling. I'm not a regular Craigieburn line commuter, so I'm not too sure, but I know on occasion there's a couple of extra Sunbury trains.

RE Upfield, I think the current practice is to have drivers drop in and drop out at Gowrie to minimise the time the need to spend doing changeover at Upfield? I might have read that on here, so it could be completely made up though.
  Lockie91 Junior Train Controller

@TOQ-1

I believe that the headway between North Melbourne and Kensington is 200 seconds. Which is roughly a frequency of 2.5 Minutes, same as the City Loop. Metro doesn’t seem to have any issues running showground specials now during the peak so I can’t imagine this being an issue during the interpeak.

They wouldn’t be running empty care during the interpeak to Craigieburn. I imagine this would happen after the peaks and into the evening. Same as what happens now at Sunbury. Metro will run empty cars to Watergardens then to Calder Park as their are only five roads at Sunbury.

I’m not sure about Upfield drive change over, their are only four roads at Upfield. Empty cars from Upfield currently run to Melbourne Yard. I imagine this will all change when the line is connect to Craigieburn.
  reubstar6 Train Controller

How hard would it be to put in an extra two tracks from the up side of the level crossing in Kensington to the down side of Newmarket? Kensington would presumably be rebuilt if and when the level crossing is removed anyway, and there seems to be sufficient space until Newmarket station.
  res1psaloqu1tur Station Staff

with a possible start date on April 1
Lockie91


April 1, you say? Knew this was too good to be true.
  penguin2233 Locomotive Driver

Location: Craigieburn, Melbourne VIC
with a possible start date on April 1


April 1, you say? Knew this was too good to be true.
res1psaloqu1tur
I just noticed. I got super hyped lol
  Lockie91 Junior Train Controller

Hahahaha,

I just noticed. I would suspect it would be 31st March which is a Sunday. New timetables never role out on a Monday.

Browsing back on the media release it is for an increase in bus services Monday to Saturday. Which is why April 1 has been used it this case.

Things you don’t notice. ????
  res1psaloqu1tur Station Staff

Do you have a link to the press releases, just out of curiosity?
  Lockie91 Junior Train Controller

9News just ran a story that they have ‘obtained exclusive’ documents that transport planners are poised to roll out 10 minute services across the network. No comment from the government but someone is dropping a few bread crumbs.

As soon as the video goes up I shall post it.
  reubstar6 Train Controller

Wait, so this is actually a prospect?
  Lockie91 Junior Train Controller

It’s was always a prospect.

The media release I uncovered had a start date for new bus services as Monday April 1. New timetable will most likely begin on Sunday 30th of March. As with all timetable changes they always begin on a Sunday.

The poor people of this regional area still can’t get a bus service on a Sunday.

Also have ‘chatter’ from a few station masters that it was being introduced ‘early 2019’

Nine went on to say it will be rolled out on ‘all suburban trunk lines, 7 days’ with perticular focus on the western suburbs as the Caulfield and Ringwood groups already enjoy such a frequency.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

Nine went on to say it will be rolled out on ‘all suburban trunk lines, 7 days’ with perticular focus on the western suburbs as the Caulfield and Ringwood groups already enjoy such a frequency.
Lockie91
Ringwood group have 10 minute service on Sundays. Definitely not Mon-Fri (15 minute off-peak). Don't know about Saturday, but when it was introduced on Sundays, Saturday remained at 20 minutes, I think.
  John.Z Chief Train Controller

Nine went on to say it will be rolled out on ‘all suburban trunk lines, 7 days’ with perticular focus on the western suburbs as the Caulfield and Ringwood groups already enjoy such a frequency.
Ringwood group have 10 minute service on Sundays. Definitely not Mon-Fri (15 minute off-peak). Don't know about Saturday, but when it was introduced on Sundays, Saturday remained at 20 minutes, I think.
duttonbay
Ringwood, Alamein and GW 15min Mon-Fri inter peak

Ringwood 10min Weekends
Alamein and GW 20min Weekends

Go figure
  mirw Beginner

Nine went on to say it will be rolled out on ‘all suburban trunk lines, 7 days’ with perticular focus on the western suburbs as the Caulfield and Ringwood groups already enjoy such a frequency.
Ringwood group have 10 minute service on Sundays. Definitely not Mon-Fri (15 minute off-peak). Don't know about Saturday, but when it was introduced on Sundays, Saturday remained at 20 minutes, I think.
Ringwood, Alamein and GW 15min Mon-Fri inter peak

Ringwood 10min Weekends
Alamein and GW 20min Weekends

Go figure
John.Z
And as for the west:

Werribee is 9tph on Weekdays:
20mins to Werribee, express Footscray-Newport-Laverton
20mins to Laverton, stopping all stations
20mins to Williamstown, stopping all stations

Only every 20 mins across the line on weekends - all to Werribee, with connecting Williamstown shuttle.

Sunbury is every 20mins to Watergardens, every 40mins to Sunbury, 7 days a week
(Sunbury gets a better frequency in the evenings when the whole line drops to every 30mins)

On weekends, trains on both lines tend to be quite full by Footscray - upping Werribee to something similar to weekdays and Sunbury to every 10 mins (at least to Watergardens) would be most welcome.
  John.Z Chief Train Controller

Nine went on to say it will be rolled out on ‘all suburban trunk lines, 7 days’ with perticular focus on the western suburbs as the Caulfield and Ringwood groups already enjoy such a frequency.
Ringwood group have 10 minute service on Sundays. Definitely not Mon-Fri (15 minute off-peak). Don't know about Saturday, but when it was introduced on Sundays, Saturday remained at 20 minutes, I think.
Ringwood, Alamein and GW 15min Mon-Fri inter peak

Ringwood 10min Weekends
Alamein and GW 20min Weekends

Go figure
And as for the west:

Werribee is 9tph on Weekdays:
20mins to Werribee, express Footscray-Newport-Laverton
20mins to Laverton, stopping all stations
20mins to Williamstown, stopping all stations

Only every 20 mins across the line on weekends - all to Werribee, with connecting Williamstown shuttle.

Sunbury is every 20mins to Watergardens, every 40mins to Sunbury, 7 days a week
(Sunbury gets a better frequency in the evenings when the whole line drops to every 30mins)

On weekends, trains on both lines tend to be quite full by Footscray - upping Werribee to something similar to weekdays and Sunbury to every 10 mins (at least to Watergardens) would be most welcome.
mirw
Newport is 9tph, Laverton 6, Werribee 3.

There is no reason why: Werribee, Wyndham Vale, Sunbury, Craigieburn, Coburg, Mernda, Greensborough, Ringwood, Alamein, Glen Waverley, Dandenong, Frankston and Sandringham ALL could not be 6tph from 6am to midnight 7 days a week, with extra services in peak times.

Williamstown, Laverton (can increase Altona loop by running one way during peak), Melton, Upfield, Hurstbridge, Lilydale, Belgrave, Pakenahm, Cranbourne can all be run at 3tph or more (can run shuttles if need be to increase tph).
  mirw Beginner

Newport is 9tph, Laverton 6, Werribee 3.
John.Z
Yes, which is what I said. Perhaps not clearly enough, but I wasn't suggesting Werribee station received 9tph.

There is no reason why: Werribee, Wyndham Vale, Sunbury, Craigieburn, Coburg, Mernda, Greensborough, Ringwood, Alamein, Glen Waverley, Dandenong, Frankston and Sandringham ALL could not be 6tph from 6am to midnight 7 days a week, with extra services in peak times.

Williamstown, Laverton (can increase Altona loop by running one way during peak), Melton, Upfield, Hurstbridge, Lilydale, Belgrave, Pakenahm, Cranbourne can all be run at 3tph or more (can run shuttles if need be to increase tph).
John.Z
Well, there is the slight problem of there not being quite enough paths into the city in the peak to do absolutely all of that - the Northern loop, for instance, is already at 20tph in the AM peak, so finding peak paths to run 6tph to Coburg would be a bit tricky. Similarly, V/line already have issues with paths into Southern Cross, so 6tph to both Melton and Wyndham Vale probably couldn't happen without some infrastructure improvements (and extra rolling stock).

But overall I think moving to 6tph as a base frequency across most of the network is doable, so long as there's enough driver and fleet availability - I was in Sydney when they brought in their new, more frequent, timetable a little over a year ago, and that was a disaster, initially, due to a lack of drivers. I'd hope we don't make the same mistake there.

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