2019 Federal Election Thread

 
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Our authoritarian loving wrought wingers do keep trying to conjure up that ghost of Joe Stalin Rolling Eyes
No one ideology has killed more people than communism.

Other than Christianity and perhaps Islam.

And there again the fascists come from such a broad church it's it bit hard to calculate their sins Razz
bingley hall
No, I'll put Communism ahead of either religion or even combined. Think Stalin and Mao. Over 15m people (mostly working/peasant class) died while the ideologists were trying to depend the workers party!  

The difference between the extreme left communist and the far far far right is that the Como's tell you they are doing this all for you and repress you into poverty in the process, while quietly killing off your relatives. At least the far right are open enough to show its all about them and you could be them if you worked hard enough or Monarchist, you simply accept you were born in the wrong class.

Unfortunately we have similar repeats in Australian politics with the Left's Billy Shorten secretly reducing penalty rates to generate union members and later the ALP in govt lowering penalty rates without any public debate, 3rd party review or discussion. Ironically when the Right used the Fair Work Commission the ALP set up to make a change, the ALP selectively ignore the outcome, so was the ALP serious about protecting workers rights from the state, showing they have a history of secretly undermining workers rights?

So who you going trust?
- The one who tells you are not entitled and should work for a living if you want to get ahead
Or
- The one who tells you as a worker your a hero, will stand up to those slave driving Managers, so don't work too hard while secretly stabbing you in the wallet



Edit: side note
I have work colleges from Heavy industry eastern Russia, interesting stories from the peoples republic

- Your shift starts from the factory floor, not walking to/from the gate, having a shower etc
- You clean the factory of litter and other schemes on your days off, unpaid
- Managers have sauna's and bars attached to their offices, operators are normally not invited
- Party officials stay in best hotels, travel in nice cars etc while calling the workers "brothers"

Sponsored advertisement

  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Other than Christianity and perhaps Islam.

And there again the fascists come from such a broad church it's it bit hard to calculate their sins Razz
bingley hall
Notice I said "ideology" not "religion".

I think RTT_Rules is wrong with those estimates, Mao starved to death about 45 million Chinese peasants in the west and the south of China during the Great Leap Forward attempting to institute new agricultural methods which failed spectacularly while simultaneously exporting all the food they had. Even now any discussion of what actually happened is vigorously suppressed.

Stalin killed or worked to death about 30-40 million Ukranians and dissidents during his rein; it was over a much longer period of time but it's still a shocking number. Those figures put any other genocidal contenders in the shade.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Our authoritarian loving wrought wingers do keep trying to conjure up that ghost of Joe Stalin Rolling Eyes
No one ideology has killed more people than communism.
don_dunstan
Reading this?

https://www.booktopia.com.au/the-black-book-of-communism-stephane-courtois/prod9780674076082.html?source=pla&gclid=Cj0KCQiAtP_iBRDGARIsAEWJA8jO0TApPghTouXOSD1GmFA0fjGfCRSf5uPCQNBqCGPRAJlDhq1QeI8aAm-xEALw_wcB

According to that logic then Capitalism has killed more. Love your propaganda Don

https://www.quora.com/What-has-killed-more-people-communism-or-capitalism
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Other than Christianity and perhaps Islam.

And there again the fascists come from such a broad church it's it bit hard to calculate their sins Razz
Notice I said "ideology" not "religion".

I think RTT_Rules is wrong with those estimates, Mao starved to death about 45 million Chinese peasants in the west and the south of China during the Great Leap Forward attempting to institute new agricultural methods which failed spectacularly while simultaneously exporting all the food they had. Even now any discussion of what actually happened is vigorously suppressed.

Stalin killed or worked to death about 30-40 million Ukranians and dissidents during his rein; it was over a much longer period of time but it's still a shocking number. Those figures put any other genocidal contenders in the shade.
don_dunstan
Bit inflated when you consider the USSR in 1926 only had 147 million humans



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_All-Union_Census_of_the_Soviet_Union
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Reading this?

https://www.booktopia.com.au/the-black-book-of-communism-stephane-courtois/prod9780674076082.html?source=pla&gclid=Cj0KCQiAtP_iBRDGARIsAEWJA8jO0TApPghTouXOSD1GmFA0fjGfCRSf5uPCQNBqCGPRAJlDhq1QeI8aAm-xEALw_wcB

According to that logic then Capitalism has killed more. Love your propaganda Don

https://www.quora.com/What-has-killed-more-people-communism-or-capitalism
Dangersdan707
No, I haven't read any of your sources. And all you've done is a cursory Google of the events and now you think you're an expert; I've actually studied those genocides at university and written extensively about why Marxism inevitably leads to genocide. And it does, every time.

And blame-shifting to the West is exactly what Stalin attempted to do; in fact the Ukranian genocide he tried to blame on Hitler's own genocide. You need to read more widely on the topic; I'd suggest you start with the classic Gulag Archipelago by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn which does an excellent job of describing the brutality and inhumanity of the gulag system, integral to the Russian Revolution right from the get-go.

And if you don't think the death toll of 45 million from the Great Leap Forward was enough then consider the hundreds of thousands of suicides, the smashing of millennia-old treasures and the wholesale destruction of schools and universities that Mao instituted during the Cultural Revolution.

The fact that there's still apologists for the Marxist genocides of the 20th century fills me with despair. If you think capitalism is worse then you don't know your history.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
It's simple, if you think communism is so bloody good, I'll pay for your taxi to the airport on the proviso it's a one way trip to a socialist/communist  country.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
It's simple, if you think communism is so bloody good, I'll pay for your taxi to the airport on the proviso it's a one way trip to a socialist/communist  country.
RTT_Rules
Sure, I would love to live in Cuba Smile
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Reading this?

https://www.booktopia.com.au/the-black-book-of-communism-stephane-courtois/prod9780674076082.html?source=pla&gclid=Cj0KCQiAtP_iBRDGARIsAEWJA8jO0TApPghTouXOSD1GmFA0fjGfCRSf5uPCQNBqCGPRAJlDhq1QeI8aAm-xEALw_wcB

According to that logic then Capitalism has killed more. Love your propaganda Don

https://www.quora.com/What-has-killed-more-people-communism-or-capitalism
No, I haven't read any of your sources. And all you've done is a cursory Google of the events and now you think you're an expert; I've actually studied those genocides at university and written extensively about why Marxism inevitably leads to genocide. And it does, every time.
don_dunstan
And so have I, Can you name your writings and possibly send them to me, I am interested and I have read both sides of the coin Honest.PM if you can. At least I both to show sources unlike you who just claims to be 'almighty'
If it leads to genocide every time then why hasn't Cuba fallen to genocide? Didn't the (horrific) DDR fall to genocide? Why Hasn't the Zapatistas or PKK fallen to genocide why hasn't Vietnam fallen?  
BTW Genocide Means According to the dictionary 'Deliberate killing of a large group' I don't think a famine qualifies as china and Russia in the centuries prior have had famines on a similar scale. Funny enough the last one to happen where under the Reds.

And blame-shifting to the West is exactly what Stalin attempted to do; in fact the Ukranian genocide he tried to blame on Hitler's own genocide. You need to read more widely on the topic; I'd suggest you start with the classic Gulag Archipelago by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn which does an excellent job of describing the brutality and inhumanity of the gulag system, integral to the Russian Revolution right from the get-go.
Don dumbstan
Like I said I have never said to be a fan of Stalin People just over inflate things. BTW the gulag system originates from the tsarist Russia and was really just a left over that the stalinist abused. (as mentioned not a fan)
And if you don't think the death toll of 45 million from the Great Leap Forward was enough then consider the hundreds of thousands of suicides, the smashing of millennia-old treasures and the wholesale destruction of schools and universities that Mao instituted during the Cultural Revolution.
Don dumbstan
Your Just Accusing me of being a stalinist art you? I have Never claimed to be a Stalinist. You just like slandering your opposition don't you McCarthy. I have never denied or claimed the Great leap forward was a good thing have I? I recognise what happened yes? Do I agree with it ? No

The fact that there's still apologists for the Marxist genocides of the 20th century fills me with despair. If you think capitalism is worse then you don't know your history.
Don dumbstan
I think it's sadder that people are still apologists for Real genocides that aimed to remove people based on race such the Holocaust  and Armenian Genocide.
It's only natural for us to accept our society we are born in, After all you have probably been fed anti-red propaganda your entire life so it is to be expected. I was once like you with opinions like that. Clearly YOU have no knowledge of history for example when It come to the crimes of the economic system of capitalism. Have you heard of the Banana Republics (if you haven't. you'll just google it and claim you do), The Iraq war? the 1953 Iran coup d'etat and American proxy wars? We each live in our own realties and mould them to our beliefs.  7ish million die of hunger per year in a world where there is enough food to go round! 8 million due to lack of sanitation and 3 million from curable Illnesses in the first and 3rd worlds. But when we hear that we don't blame capitalism no we turn to other things to blame!
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
And so have I, Can you name your writings and possibly send them to me, I am interested and I have read both sides of the coin Honest.PM if you can. At least I both to show sources unlike you who just claims to be 'almighty'
If it leads to genocide every time then why hasn't Cuba fallen to genocide? Didn't the (horrific) DDR fall to genocide? Why Hasn't the Zapatistas or PKK fallen to genocide why hasn't Vietnam fallen?  
BTW Genocide Means According to the dictionary 'Deliberate killing of a large group' I don't think a famine qualifies as china and Russia in the centuries prior have had famines on a similar scale. Funny enough the last one to happen where under the Reds.
Dangersdan707
This is one area in which I have studied and read extensively about and as I said earlier if you're really interested in the excesses of the Soviet gulag system then you should start with the Gulag Archipelago.

Please don't hold the DDR and Cuba up as shining examples of how communism works, neither of those places are/were shining leaders of human rights: The DDR was so dysfunctional that one in four citizens were on the payroll of the dreaded Stasi secret police and indeed thousands of civilians shot attempting to leave the "socialist paradise".

As for Mao's famine not being a genocide, there's plenty of evidence that he knew exactly what was going on but refused to do anything because he wanted to head off a fermenting counter-revolution. He also exported food to the Soviet Union to repay debts while the famine was in progress. If that's not genocide then what is?
I think it's sadder that people are still apologists for Real genocides that aimed to remove people based on race such the Holocaust and Armenian Genocide.
Dangersdan707
A genocide is a genocide is a genocide; doesn't matter if its racially based or if you're just attempting to wipe out your political enemies, it still involves trying to wipe out an entire class of people just because you don't like them.
It's only natural for us to accept our society we are born in, After all you have probably been fed anti-red propaganda your entire life so it is to be expected. I was once like you with opinions like that. Clearly YOU have no knowledge of history for example when It come to the crimes of the economic system of capitalism. Have you heard of the Banana Republics (if you haven't. you'll just google it and claim you do), The Iraq war? the 1953 Iran coup d'etat and American proxy wars? We each live in our own realties and mould them to our beliefs. 7ish million die of hunger per year in a world where there is enough food to go round! 8 million due to lack of sanitation and 3 million from curable Illnesses in the first and 3rd worlds. But when we hear that we don't blame capitalism no we turn to other things to blame!
Dangersdan707
I know all about the long history of interference, Allande in Chile, Contras, Panama, Iraq/Iran all of that, not to mention the murderous regimes that the West supports such as Saudi Arabia. I'm not saying the West is innocent but they've got nothing on Stalin and Mao's systematic persecution and incarceration of millions upon millions of people just because they are potential enemies of the state... and China is still doing it.

Nothing that the West has done compares to the millions upon millions of victims of communism and the systematic killing of civilians just in case they became revolutionary.

I'm happy to continue this conversation elsewhere on a thread devoted to communism, I think we've diverted this 'Federal Election' thread for long enough...
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
This is one area in which I have studied and read extensively about and as I said earlier if you're really interested in the excesses of the Soviet gulag system then you should start with the Gulag Archipelago.
I have heard good things about that book and it is on my long to read list don. Like I said I'm not a stalinist apologist. would be like if I called you a fascist and asked you to defend Hitler and Pinochet. I'm going to try to be reasonable and not call insults, as difficult as it is on a Tuchy issue like this

Please don't hold the DDR and Cuba up as shining examples of how communism works, neither of those places are/were shining leaders of human rights: The DDR was so dysfunctional that one in four citizens were on the payroll of the dreaded Stasi secret police and indeed thousands of civilians shot attempting to leave the "socialist paradise".
Cuba is doing extremely well considering that they have been under an embargo for 50 years by their former biggest trading partner and loss of a sponsor to pro them up (USSR). Cuba has a good election system, Excellent health care and education and guarantee's it's people a decent standard of living. The DDR if you read earlier I called 'horrific', Do I like the Stazi? No. If you want a decent read on them read Ana Funder's Staziland. I find one thing funny about the DDR though, Why are people nostalgic towards it if it was soo awful? It baffles me too
As for Mao's famine not being a genocide, there's plenty of evidence that he knew exactly what was going on but refused to do anything because he wanted to head off a fermenting counter-revolution. He also exported food to the Soviet Union to repay debts while the famine was in progress. If that's not genocide then what is?

I would call that cruelty! I have not studied maoist china enough, you got me in a hole there. I will refer you to my definition of genocide

A genocide is a genocide is a genocide; doesn't matter if its racially based or if you're just attempting to wipe out your political enemies, it still involves trying to wipe out an entire class of people just because you don't like them.

I do agree that stalinism's (Stalinist Russia and Mao's China) crimes are horrific and Need to serve as a reminder of what absolution can do but I disagree with calling the Holodomor (not purposefully done) and the great purge a genocide. It in my opinion Genocide is a racially motivated idea. At least the USSR realised how horrific Stalin was.

I know all about the long history of interference, Allande in Chile, Contras, Panama, Iraq/Iran all of that, not to mention the murderous regimes that the West supports such as Saudi Arabia. I'm not saying the West is innocent but they've got nothing on Stalin and Mao's systematic persecution and incarceration of millions upon millions of people just because they are potential enemies of the state... and China is still doing it.
I disagree with the west not being on equal ground with the Stalinists. China I agree is horrific with the treatment of minorities makes stalinist Russia look like a paradise (they were tolerated somewhat though forced to move around). China will always do it unless some Khrushchev esque leader takes power and reverses all of its Han homogeny policies  
China is taking up to the worlds mantle and your going to see a lot more of them this century whether you like them or not due to they're economic power.

Nothing that the West has done compares to the millions upon millions of victims of communism and the systematic killing of civilians just in case they became revolutionary.
I disagree respectfully with that, the west has done murdered just as many in their colonial wars, Economic and proxy wars and oppressive puppets. The western puppets did the same as you know.
I'm happy to continue this conversation elsewhere on a thread devoted to communism, I think we've diverted this 'Federal Election' thread for long enough...
Agreed
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
All the Socialists/Communist country's did so much for the people that they had to build walls that make Trump's proposed wall look like a picket fence, except they had one major difference, when the citizens tried to climb over, they were shot in the back by their own countrymen under orders by the Socialists/Communist govt for that country.

DDR - was a $h_t hole of a country. It was so "good" that the 30 years after the wall came down, the population of old East Germany area in Germany is still in decline. Even their own govt couldn't be bothered keeping the wall up any longer and hence let the people leave.

Cuba - Where the locals use horses to pull the 1950's cars because the bush mechanics are running out of options to keep them running and govt employees earn $100/mth. The locals love it so much, much of Florida is filled with people who'd rather swim 200km across open sea than stay.

China - Mao enforced mass famine, that even he later released his farming policies were failing and tried to resign. Even he released that his secret police style practices were so bad that he later round up those part of the secret police and sent them inland to work on farms before he had yet another revolution to deal with. Remind me again under the Communist govt, how many Billionaires have been generated in China? Don't work, don't eat. Medical welfare is for those who have money.

USSR - Failed state, Stalin was killing so many of his own people that the population was in decline upon his death and his statues quietly disappeared over the years while the USSR was still in existence and quickly removed after. Gulags for the whole family were people work in -30C temperatures with light clothing on to save feeding them in Spring. And also F_it, lets screw the neighboring country and force them into the People's way of doing things countries, as for Ukraine, too many to relocate and influence under Russification, lets wall them in and starve them to death to reduce the numbers and send the food to Russia to make us look like hero's.

Vietnam - Communist in govt, but not in economy. Its very much work or go hungry.  So wonderful they were some of the first boat people to Australia in an era of no GPS, rotting boats and unreliable motors and pirates.

NK - Yes another shinning example of communism at work, under the first Kim, they fort hard to be a communist state claiming a party and country for the people, then once they stalemated the war, they quietly removed any reference to the word communism and head of state suddenly became effectively an absolute Monarchy. Don't like it, try to leave, we won't just work you to death, hell we will get three generations of your family as well.

Romania - Yeah he was so good, again exporting food while his people starved, so when given the chance they just shot him and his wife within a few hours of being captured running away (why is that ex Communist party leaders often have to run away when it all goes bad?) to save the expense and time for a court case.

Venezuela - A country with the world's largest oil (but its not good oil) reserves, yet they cannot even feed their people! We have so much money, Socialism for everyone. No one has to work, free free free, but only from govt. Close down that nasty private sector profiteering on the hard working working man (loose term for Sth America), lets take back all these industries off the foreign Nationals, we will show them. Oh looking, the money all ran out, the people don't work, the govt cannot afford to buy the basics and now they have less cash reserves than Tasmania. Lucky its not a cold country otherwise they'd run out of money as people burn it being cheaper than firewood. I suppose at least they don't have a wall to keep their people in, oh wait, how dare those democratic countries with all their money provide medical aid...



...and the most interesting part of all this is that there are people in Australia that still think this will all work in Australia. Clearly lacking sufficient education such that they are not aware of Einestein's theory of stupidity.

Which is why the usual first move for any Socialist/communist revolution is, kill all the educated people to stop them asking question you don't know the answer too!
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
...Which is why the usual first move for any Socialist/communist revolution is, kill all the educated people to stop them asking question you don't know the answer too!
RTT_Rules
We won't mention that Austrian Corporal and his Italian role model will we.

Anyway this was about your so-called right vs the so-called left.

First a bit of history... Both Russia and China had a huge underclass with power and wealth concentrated in the ruling class, the church (in Russia) and land-owners (i.e. the 'right'). There was no democracy. Dissent was ruthlessly supressed and they routinely tortured and killed people. Revolution was the result. Communism was the -ism behind those revolutions.

People in power killing other people predates communism. It’s about eliminating the opposition, revenge and intimidating your population. There is nothing about communism or fascism that requires you to kill people. Those running the show make that decision.

The people running those revolutions weren’t bleeding hearts and a proportion of the population had plenty of reason to hate their 'oppressors'. Once the leadership becomes established, they assume the mantra of the 'right'. Stalin became the new Tsar and rebuilt the empire on his communist model. Anyone who wants change and threatens the status quo becomes the left and the cycle restarts.

Revolution was the circuit-breaker, communism a mechanism for social and economic change. However it can only be transitional as individuals greed for wealth and power again creates an imbalance.  

Many of the rights and privileges we take for granted only came about since the late 19th Century. Which side seemed to always oppose those changes!

No right you wouldn’t need a left!
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
All the Socialists/Communist country's did so much for the people that they had to build walls that make Trump's proposed wall look like a picket fence, except they had one major difference, when the citizens tried to climb over, they were shot in the back by their own countrymen under orders by the Socialists/Communist govt for that country.

DDR - was a $h_t hole of a country. It was so "good" that the 30 years after the wall came down, the population of old East Germany area in Germany is still in decline. Even their own govt couldn't be bothered keeping the wall up any longer and hence let the people leave.

Cuba - Where the locals use horses to pull the 1950's cars because the bush mechanics are running out of options to keep them running and govt employees earn $100/mth. The locals love it so much, much of Florida is filled with people who'd rather swim 200km across open sea than stay.

China - Mao enforced mass famine, that even he later released his farming policies were failing and tried to resign. Even he released that his secret police style practices were so bad that he later round up those part of the secret police and sent them inland to work on farms before he had yet another revolution to deal with. Remind me again under the Communist govt, how many Billionaires have been generated in China? Don't work, don't eat. Medical welfare is for those who have money.

USSR - Failed state, Stalin was killing so many of his own people that the population was in decline upon his death and his statues quietly disappeared over the years while the USSR was still in existence and quickly removed after. Gulags for the whole family were people work in -30C temperatures with light clothing on to save feeding them in Spring. And also F_it, lets screw the neighboring country and force them into the People's way of doing things countries, as for Ukraine, too many to relocate and influence under Russification, lets wall them in and starve them to death to reduce the numbers and send the food to Russia to make us look like hero's.

Vietnam - Communist in govt, but not in economy. Its very much work or go hungry.  So wonderful they were some of the first boat people to Australia in an era of no GPS, rotting boats and unreliable motors and pirates.

NK - Yes another shinning example of communism at work, under the first Kim, they fort hard to be a communist state claiming a party and country for the people, then once they stalemated the war, they quietly removed any reference to the word communism and head of state suddenly became effectively an absolute Monarchy. Don't like it, try to leave, we won't just work you to death, hell we will get three generations of your family as well.

Romania - Yeah he was so good, again exporting food while his people starved, so when given the chance they just shot him and his wife within a few hours of being captured running away (why is that ex Communist party leaders often have to run away when it all goes bad?) to save the expense and time for a court case.

Venezuela - A country with the world's largest oil (but its not good oil) reserves, yet they cannot even feed their people! We have so much money, Socialism for everyone. No one has to work, free free free, but only from govt. Close down that nasty private sector profiteering on the hard working working man (loose term for Sth America), lets take back all these industries off the foreign Nationals, we will show them. Oh looking, the money all ran out, the people don't work, the govt cannot afford to buy the basics and now they have less cash reserves than Tasmania. Lucky its not a cold country otherwise they'd run out of money as people burn it being cheaper than firewood. I suppose at least they don't have a wall to keep their people in, oh wait, how dare those democratic countries with all their money provide medical aid...



...and the most interesting part of all this is that there are people in Australia that still think this will all work in Australia. Clearly lacking sufficient education such that they are not aware of Einestein's theory of stupidity.

Which is why the usual first move for any Socialist/communist revolution is, kill all the educated people to stop them asking question you don't know the answer too!
RTT_Rules
Repost in correct thread and I will reply
Stalin, Mao & Marx verses everyone else
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
A good summary or sorts https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/nsw-election-2019 where the NSW guys might ask for some federal funding.
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
And why did your 'good summary' warrant a new news thread, when a 2019 NSW Election thread already exists in the NSW forum?

You really do seem to like seeing your name as a thread creator don't you.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
...Which is why the usual first move for any Socialist/communist revolution is, kill all the educated people to stop them asking question you don't know the answer too!
We won't mention that Austrian Corporal and his Italian role model will we.

Anyway this was about your so-called right vs the so-called left.

First a bit of history... Both Russia and China had a huge underclass with power and wealth concentrated in the ruling class, the church (in Russia) and land-owners (i.e. the 'right'). There was no democracy. Dissent was ruthlessly supressed and they routinely tortured and killed people. Revolution was the result. Communism was the -ism behind those revolutions.

People in power killing other people predates communism. It’s about eliminating the opposition, revenge and intimidating your population. There is nothing about communism or fascism that requires you to kill people. Those running the show make that decision.

The people running those revolutions weren’t bleeding hearts and a proportion of the population had plenty of reason to hate their 'oppressors'. Once the leadership becomes established, they assume the mantra of the 'right'. Stalin became the new Tsar and rebuilt the empire on his communist model. Anyone who wants change and threatens the status quo becomes the left and the cycle restarts.

Revolution was the circuit-breaker, communism a mechanism for social and economic change. However it can only be transitional as individuals greed for wealth and power again creates an imbalance.  

Many of the rights and privileges we take for granted only came about since the late 19th Century. Which side seemed to always oppose those changes!

No right you wouldn’t need a left!
Groundrelay
Hilter was a Dictator, Communism is a party form Dictatorship.

If there is one thing less evil about Hitler than Communism is that Hitler allowed his people freedom of travel, he encouraged the Jews in Germany to leave before implementing the Holocaust.

Socialism and Communism came about as 180 degree alternatives to Monarchy's, usually not nice ones with harsh conditions for the working class/Peasants. It is an idealism of everyone working together for the greater good that flys in the face of human nature and human innovation and as such over time Socialist/Communist countries fall behind free market economies and 99% of the time go bankrupt.

Side note:
In the early 60's Gene Roddenbery used the principles of Socialism as the future in a demonetized "Star Trek" world where we don't fight with each other, rather just work for the greater good. In later Star Trek series and movies, there are signs this is not the case and there is a reward system.
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
And why did your 'good summary' warrant a new news thread, when a 2019 NSW Election thread already exists in the NSW forum?

You really do seem to like seeing your name as a thread creator don't you.
mikesyd
The news item was posted by "Railpage System User".
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

The government has lost control of the House of Representatives in a vote on its own legislation, first time it has happened since 1929.

PM conference coming up in a few minutes. To avoid this becoming a full blown constitutional crisis, the main message of the presser should be to either announce a trip over to Yarralumla within the hour or that the confidence of the House in the Morrison Government will be debated as the first order of the day tomorrow morning.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

PM presser is all about Shorten, looks like he's about to fire the starting pistol.
  michaelgm Deputy Commissioner

PM presser is all about Shorten, looks like he's about to fire the starting pistol.
justapassenger
So any boat arrival will be on Bill Shorten and labor's head.
A possible unofficial relaxing of Operation soverigeon borders?
Scomo Dutton and co will have their fingers crossed, some fishing vessel appears on the horizon.
Or am I a little too septical?
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
PM presser is all about Shorten, looks like he's about to fire the starting pistol.
So any boat arrival will be on Bill Shorten and labor's head.
A possible unofficial relaxing of Operation soverigeon borders?
Scomo Dutton and co will have their fingers crossed, some fishing vessel appears on the horizon.
Or am I a little too septical?
michaelgm
Not alt all.

How this government manipulates national security is extremely cynical.

We don’t know how many boats try to get here or of any incidents as these are 'secret' Operational Matters. Of course that goes out the window when it’s politically advantageous to leak or have a press conference with 1/2/ dozen flags behind you.

Just the sort of stuff that plays well to the extremely wrought.

Meanwhile the vast majority of 'illegals' are lucky enough to be able to fly in and stay here until they may get caught. Not a press conference or flag in sight Razz
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
If there is one thing less evil about Hitler than Communism is that Hitler allowed his people freedom of travel, he encouraged the Jews in Germany to leave before implementing the Holocaust.
RTT_Rules
And there you have it!

You have an extremely simplistic and just plain wrong take on history. Obviously you don’t have a clue about what actually happened or the timeline of events.

I suppose one was 'free' to do whatever Nazi state allowed and perhaps that was fine for the average German given they only had a brief taste of democracy. As long as you weren't Jewish, Gypsy, Homosexual, Communist, Mentally disabled, or just disagreed with them.

Look up the word "evil" before assessing less-ness.
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
PM presser is all about Shorten, looks like he's about to fire the starting pistol.
So any boat arrival will be on Bill Shorten and labor's head.
A possible unofficial relaxing of Operation soverigeon borders?
Scomo Dutton and co will have their fingers crossed, some fishing vessel appears on the horizon.
Or am I a little too septical?
Not alt all.

How this government manipulates national security is extremely cynical.

We don’t know how many boats try to get here or of any incidents as these are 'secret' Operational Matters. Of course that goes out the window when it’s politically advantageous to leak or have a press conference with 1/2/ dozen flags behind you.

Just the sort of stuff that plays well to the extremely wrought.

Meanwhile the vast majority of 'illegals' are lucky enough to be able to fly in and stay here until they may get caught. Not a press conference or flag in sight Razz
Groundrelay
So more fool the people who flew into Indonesia, burnt all their papers/passports, and paid a people smuggler a large wad of cash, hopped onto a leaky fishing boat with the hope of making it to Australia.   Only to spend 6 years on an island in the middle of the ocean.    Maybe they should have just bought a ticket to Australia in the first place and saved all the hassle.

But these are not the real refugees.   The real ones are sitting in a camp just over the border from the strife they were escaping.   They got out with only the clothes they were wearing.   Here's an idea - do a swap with the "boat people" who could afford to pay their way for ones in the refugee camps.   That might stop the people smuggler operation in Indonesia.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
ScoMo reopens the Christmas Island detention centre - maybe a political stunt but all the same if you can get two (activist) doctors to sign off on your health then refugee status on the mainland here we come... ABC.

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