Melbourne Airport Rail Link

 
  justarider Chief Train Controller

Location: Stuck on VR and hoping for better.
I can see the sources are different meaning the age has copied the Press release verbatim?

Good news that work is underway.
x31
have a better read of the 2.
The Age put some opinion in there that the Govt would never say themselves.

cheers
John

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  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
According to PTV's stats, currently there are on average, 644,000 trips on Metro trains each day (annual figure/365).  When the SR(almost)L is complete, the estimate on BigBuild.gov.au for this single line is 400,000 per day. Although that's comparing numbers from two different years (2016 vs 2051) that's still an impressive ratio being handled by one line
g00r

Statistics pulled out of thin air, that should be suspect to any rational mind.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

According to PTV's stats, currently there are on average, 644,000 trips on Metro trains each day (annual figure/365).  When the SR(almost)L is complete, the estimate on BigBuild.gov.au for this single line is 400,000 per day. Although that's comparing numbers from two different years (2016 vs 2051) that's still an impressive ratio being handled by one line

Statistics pulled out of thin air, that should be suspect to any rational mind.
ZH836301
Good thing those rational minds at an independent economics firm came up with patronage of 30,000-50,000 on the south-east section alone if it were in operation today.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Haha, pulled from thin air.  So where are the figures?  

Journey to work data shows such claims are beyond optimistic, rather, lunacy.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

I’m not getting drawn into taking this thread off-piste, if you want the figures, ask on the SRL thread, or just read the link I posted a while ago.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Then don't make such posts to begin with.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Productivity Commission's report on Airport Parking says that the airports aren't ripping people off.  Former ACCC chairman Graeme Samuel says the report is "44 pages of the most superficial analysis that I've seen".

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-06/airport-parking-prices-arent-too-high-productivity-commission/10784300

Personal view - use Public transport if you can or use an alternative airport like Bendigo after April 2019.  But many affluent travellers avoid PT like the plague.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line

Personal view - use Public transport if you can or use an alternative airport like Bendigo after April 2019.  But many affluent travellers avoid PT like the plague.
Carnot

Good news...I'm not interested in travelling with highfalutin effluent wind bags with their Louis Vuitton's in tow...trying to keep up with the other highfalutins...

I may be middle class...but I'm happy and without stress....and at the end of the day...we all end up dead Exclamation

Mike.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE

Personal view - use Public transport if you can or use an alternative airport like Bendigo after April 2019.  But many affluent travellers avoid PT like the plague.
Good news...I'm not interested in travelling with highfalutin effluent wind bags with their Louis Vuitton's in tow...trying to keep up with the other highfalutins...

I may be middle class...but I'm happy and without stress....and at the end of the day...we all end up dead Exclamation

Mike.
The Vinelander
Bendgio will be an expensive way to get to Sydney unless you live in Bendigo.

The old "suits don't catch PT" has been proven time and time again to be a myth. North Shore Line and soon to be the NWRL in Sydney are case in point. However suits and those with more cash than others have obviously more options than others and therefore if time or the hassle or simply being hassled is too much they are more easily lost to other options than PT.
  penguin2233 Locomotive Driver

Location: Craigieburn, Melbourne VIC

Personal view - use Public transport if you can or use an alternative airport like Bendigo after April 2019.  But many affluent travellers avoid PT like the plague.
Good news...I'm not interested in travelling with highfalutin effluent wind bags with their Louis Vuitton's in tow...trying to keep up with the other highfalutins...

I may be middle class...but I'm happy and without stress....and at the end of the day...we all end up dead Exclamation

Mike.Bendgio will be an expensive way to get to Sydney unless you live in Bendigo.

The old "suits don't catch PT" has been proven time and time again to be a myth. North Shore Line and soon to be the NWRL in Sydney are case in point. However suits and those with more cash than others have obviously more options than others and therefore if time or the hassle or simply being hassled is too much they are more easily lost to other options than PT.
RTT_Rules
Would you SkyBus or 902? A bus number doesn't appeal. Something like "Airport Line" makes you consider it before doing any research. Same for SkyBus, it sounds like a name for a bus service that specializes in airport transport
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Without a decent local network, airport rail is of limited use for much of the city.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line

The old "suits don't catch PT" has been proven time and time again to be a myth. North Shore Line and soon to be the NWRL in Sydney are case in point. However suits and those with more cash than others have obviously more options than others and therefore if time or the hassle or simply being hassled is too much they are more easily lost to other options than PT.Would you SkyBus or 902? A bus number doesn't appeal. Something like "Airport Line" makes you consider it before doing any research. Same for SkyBus, it sounds like a name for a bus service that specializes in airport transport
penguin2233

Route 902. though it's 'free' with myki, takes around 40 mins and upwards to get to the airport, whereas Skybus....at considerably higher cost and more frequent and convenient services takes around 20 mins.

I utilise both, depending on my connexions to/from the Ballarat line.


Mike.
  ptvcommuter Train Controller

15 Billion dollars
For an airport Rail

This was once spruiked as something that would cost 3 Billion. But 15 sorry
It isn’t running via Maribyrnong which is should so why does it need to cost so much

You can’t justify the cost of this project. It would be better to provide a direct bus lane the whole way to the airport than a ridiculous 15 Billion dollar project. That pays for basically nearly all of MM2. I know which one I would want.

Only if the project has VLine running to Kalkallo on to Seymour and Clarkefield on to Bendigo will it start to have some merit. But the extraordinary cost and a tunnel via Sunshine is something I can’t justify.
  justarider Chief Train Controller

Location: Stuck on VR and hoping for better.
15 Billion dollars
For an airport Rail

This was once spruiked as something that would cost 3 Billion. But 15 sorry
It isn’t running via Maribyrnong which is should so why does it need to cost so much

You can’t justify the cost of this project. It would be better to provide a direct bus lane the whole way to the airport than a ridiculous 15 Billion dollar project. That pays for basically nearly all of MM2. I know which one I would want.

Only if the project has VLine running to Kalkallo on to Seymour and Clarkefield on to Bendigo will it start to have some merit. But the extraordinary cost and a tunnel via Sunshine is something I can’t justify.
ptvcommuter
"..is something I can’t justify."

That's why experts in the field are the ones writing the Business Case.
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
15 Billion dollars
For an airport Rail

This was once spruiked as something that would cost 3 Billion. But 15 sorry
It isn’t running via Maribyrnong which is should so why does it need to cost so much

You can’t justify the cost of this project. It would be better to provide a direct bus lane the whole way to the airport than a ridiculous 15 Billion dollar project. That pays for basically nearly all of MM2. I know which one I would want.

Only if the project has VLine running to Kalkallo on to Seymour and Clarkefield on to Bendigo will it start to have some merit. But the extraordinary cost and a tunnel via Sunshine is something I can’t justify.
ptvcommuter
The proposal is
- Changes an upgrades to Southern Cross Station, including access and the shopping centre and coach interchange  
- An express tunnel to Sunshine
- Rebuilding a fairly recent station at Sunshine (with the possibility of grade separating the other junction and all the works and closures that will involve)
- New track along the Albion - Jacana Line with a new underground station at the airport.

When you see the project as a whole, it is easy to see where the money stacks up - I'd imagine the Albion - Airport part would actually be the cheapest.

In another thread I think you've been making a point about how services to the West need to be electrified and be more frequent. While the boffins in charge have realised that the 4 tracks from Sunshine to the city can't support too man more trains, even with Metro I. So there needs to be more capacity somewhere.
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

I am also a bit shocked at the cost here. Other than how to punch two more tracks through the Footscray area nothing else seems that difficult and could be done at surface level.

Even another pair of platforms could be added at Sunshine on the south side fairly easily and run the airport trains through the current metro platforms.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
I am also a bit shocked at the cost here. Other than how to punch two more tracks through the Footscray area nothing else seems that difficult and could be done at surface level.

Even another pair of platforms could be added at Sunshine on the south side fairly easily and run the airport trains through the current metro platforms.
Mr. Lane
It would mostly be the Footscray to Southern Cross Station section that the real expensive section, Including expansion of Southern Cross Station to cater for all the extra services coming In from the South Wast of the State through to the North East.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
There's no reason why we can't consolidate the freight terminals at Webb Dock and build a new freight line from there to Newport - this would open up those lines for upgrading and subsequent use as the Airport and Sunbury tracks which would in turn free up the existing Sunbury tracks for use by Melton and Wyndham Vale services.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
There's no reason why we can't consolidate the freight terminals at Webb Dock and build a new freight line from there to Newport - this would open up those lines for upgrading and subsequent use as the Airport and Sunbury tracks which would in turn free up the existing Sunbury tracks for use by Melton and Wyndham Vale services.
railblogger
Ah NO
  ngarner Train Controller

Location: Seville
$15 Billion has been thrown around a lot, but I can't find from where. The expected cost is around $8 and $13 billion, Age July 2018 which appears to source its costs from a Premier's media release Media. Maybe it comes from both state and federal governments committing $5 billion each and the Airport/Southern Cross owning consortium prepared to tip in another $5 billion. Who gets to keep their money if it does come in at $2 to $7 billion less?


As noted earlier there is a need to tunnel into the airport precinct as well as into Southern Cross, which, I think, is incorporated into the project. An at-level station would be a challenge to fit within reasonable proximity of any of the terminals whereas underground could be put close by, if planned properly, which you'd hope would be the case considering the amount of money being put into the business case and the project itself.


Neil
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

There's no reason why we can't consolidate the freight terminals at Webb Dock and build a new freight line from there to Newport - this would open up those lines for upgrading and subsequent use as the Airport and Sunbury tracks which would in turn free up the existing Sunbury tracks for use by Melton and Wyndham Vale services.
railblogger

...you must be having a chuckle.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Why do you say that?
  reubstar6 Chief Train Controller

I think the western rail plan will probably end up costing $15 billion (excluding Geelong/Ballart HSR/electrification). This would make logical sense. The actual airport rail section will probably cost the $2-3 billion that was initially anticipated. The majority of the cost will go into adding much needed capacity to the Footscray-Sunshine section. I still think this won't be enough if we're going to have a 160kph service to Geelong at a high frequency. Routing the Geelong line through what will be one of the busiest sections of the network soon just doesn't make sense.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

I think the western rail plan will probably end up costing $15 billion (excluding Geelong/Ballart HSR/electrification). This would make logical sense. The actual airport rail section will probably cost the $2-3 billion that was initially anticipated. The majority of the cost will go into adding much needed capacity to the Footscray-Sunshine section. I still think this won't be enough if we're going to have a 160kph service to Geelong at a high frequency. Routing the Geelong line through what will be one of the busiest sections of the network soon just doesn't make sense.
reubstar6

Everyone is madly overthinking what is “required” for Geelong. Per the station data recently posted, the total passenger task to and from the “Geelong proper” stations is about 2.388 million/year, or an average 6,542/day. Let’s be kind and adjust that up to 10,000 for weekdays. Now even assuming that every last one of these is going to Southern Cross - they’re not - and bearing in mind that travel time is about 40 minutes with a limited express run through Melbourne, with decent true commuter stock with capacity 1,000 (maybe double deck, maybe plenty of standing room, something like that), running 10tph in peak allows you to double the current passenger task. That is absolute gold plating. Anything else is overcooking it entirely.

10tph to Geelong, 6tph to Ballarat and 6tph to Airport is all possible in a nice conventionally signalled tunnel from Sunshine. Everyone goes home happy.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
And rerouting freight trains to free up the tracks won't deliver the same benefit?

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